Help with this rock

[Rzimm]

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Hi all. This was found in a river that is known for its middle woodland sites. Seems to be worked. Any thoughts?

 

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[Rzimm]

2 more

 

[arrow86]

First group of pics didn’t load for me just based on the ones that did I would say natural rock not an artifact

 

[Rzimm]

These photos help? It was found with a couple other things...I’ll post those in a minute or so...

 

[Rzimm]

Hope these worked. All of these stones were found together. And thanks for your help!

 

[Tnmountains]

Natural. Native American tools looked like tools.

 

[Rzimm]

Ok even these angles?

 

[Rzimm]

Last few then I give up. Dang. And thanks for your help!!

 

[arrow86]

I would also agree that all of them look natural not artifacts but keep at it

 

[Rzimm]

Well dang. I’ll send up some different pics tomorrow. These were found with flint/lithic cores and several iron pyrite stones...which aren’t found locally...in addition to several fire scorched stones. I’ll give this one more shot! And thanks again for your input!!

 

[Rzimm]

So yeah, lithic tools look like tools for the most part. But, I’m not thinking these are necessarily tools. These are most likely lithic cores with intact cortex, fairly obvious flake scars (I think), and one tiny, exhausted flint core of a variety not found locally. If you still disagree can you explain why? If there is a chance that these are indeed lithic artifacts, might you perhaps rethink the initial pics. These items were found on an eroded sand ridge on a piece of land that stones are rarely seen in concentrations...especially with a number of pyrite stones.

 

[Rzimm]

This is the pyrite found with above rocks. I know that context is very important when considering lithic artifacts, what are the chances that this bunch of pyrite would be on a sand ridge scattered among the items in my other pictures?

 

[newnan man]

Sorry, those are just rocks. What is the significance of you mentioning the Pyrite being found? Was it used in tool making?

 

[Rzimm]

Nope. Fire making. Which was sort of a big deal and why they were hoarded.

The other objects certainly aren’t as exciting or sexy as all the rainbow-colored points. I’m way less excited about those because of the high percentage of very well made fakes.

I suppose I’ll get these rocks examined in person. I’m not entirely convinced these aren’t cores and/or debitage. The native people who left sites in the area are middle woodland, prehistoric.The other interesting thing about these rocks is that there were several fire-scorched and cracked stones among them. That’s another reason I won’t be entirely convinced these aren’t worked by humans. There are too many non-natural coincidences with this group of rocks.

But...I am a little deflated. I was hoping for a reassuring “yes”. But this site is full of seasoned collectors...which I am not. The help is highly appreciated, however. I think an in-person evaluation by a university anthropologist is next on my agenda. Dang.

 

[Tnmountains]

Look at the flakes in this guys post this is what you want to see. Your material will be different fort payne and dover but the flakes will be the same.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/n...ecting-fort-years-my-first-field-hunt-ar.html

 

[smokeythecat]

Check this flint out for comparison. See the flake scars? And fire rock is pretty common. We still make it with our campfires and with stones under burnt brush piles.

 

[bigdaddywittenauer]

Yeah I agree. Very natural.

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[Rzimm]

Yes, I do see how that flint you posted seems to have been worked. I also understand that how that could be a natural phenomenon. I also do not know how to work flint myself.

However, I am aware of certain patterns found in certain artifacts. So, the cortex is the natural outer layer of a stone. I know that when working chert, (at least the prehistoric people who lived in this area) they would strike the cortex in a downward manner to obtain various flakes. As they used up the material they would taper the core to a point, which would sometimes be used as a hand axe for cracking/opening bones and such. I’m going to take a few pictures of one of the pieces I’ve already shown. Mostly, I want to point out the cortex, the various flake scars, how it’s been (apparently) tapered into one of these points, and (importantly) the chipped/dulled end of the point (an indication of use). In the forthcoming pictures, I am skeptical that a natural process would leave cortex intact while flaking the chert from various angles, tapering it into a very ergonomic tool, and grind down the ‘point’ to resemble use-wear. It’s another reason I’m conflicted about these rocks.

And mostly I want to point out that I’m a VERY skeptical person myself, so I appreciate the banter from other skeptics. I’m not inflexible in my opinions, I just want to make a case for these stones before they are lost to my wife’s garden...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Time to transfer them to your wife's garden. Better luck next time.

 

[Rzimm]

Ok, look at these.

This is the cortex/skin side of the stone.




Some of the ‘scars’. Trying to include pics that include examples of rippling...



Couple pics illustrating how it was (maybe) tapered into a prismatic point...



This is showing how could be used as hand-axe/ergonomic



Couple pics showing the chipped/dulling point and/or potential use wear.




These last two pics I just want an opinion on. This is not a porous or vesicular stone. Before I make any amateur claims about this I was just fishing for an opinion (also found with all the other rocks I’ve shown)

Thanks again!