Confederate Gold Stories

[ECS]

Given the conditions in Richmond near the end of the war, the surprising part to me isn't that a train was delayed. It's astonishing the trains were running at all. Among many other issues - where would they go? What tracks, stations, and train crossroads did the Union army control?

The railroads in the South were all independently owned,each had their own routes and rail guage to prevent competition from other train companies.One could go from point A to point B,but to reach point C,one would have to change trains,and sometimes take a wagon to another town to a train that went to point C.Needless to say,this caused problems for Confederate supply lines.The Union also destroyed as many rails that they could-"Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again"-including "Uncle Billy's bow ties wrapped around trees.The CSA also used the rails of "out of the way of the War" for armoring their ironclads.By 1865,not many RR lines were in usable condition.
A map of CSA RR routes:
RRmap
A discussion on RR's,resources,funding,and finances during the War:
http://users.humbolt.edu/ogayle/hist110/CivilWar.html

 

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[L.C. BAKER]

coast to coast knights of the golden circle part 1 of 3
November 14, 2009

First hour guest, author Warren Getler spoke about the Knights of the Golden
Circle (KGC) and the conspiracy to kill Lincoln. The new film, National
Treasure: Book of Secrets (for which Getler served as historical consultant)
deals with this grand conspiracy. The secretive KGC, composed of Confederates
and Masons, were said to bury gold and financially support Lincoln's
assassination. Getler shared an 1865 political engraving from the magazine
Harper's Weekly with us.
Category: Education 27th december 2007



Yahoo! Groups

Good to see that I am not the only one beating a dead horse........

 

[Old Bookaroo]

ECS:

I did not know that there were more than one railroad gauge in use! I believe Russia had the same problem before WW I - while it made it difficult to attack that nation, it also made it difficult to bring men and supplies across the border to stop an attack before it crossed the border.

Here is an interesting map that shows the problem of taking a train out of Richmond at the end of the War. Obviously, it didn't make sense to flee north. To the south was the Petersburg railroad hub - already in the hands of the Union Army.



Virginia Map

It's clear why the story claims the train went to Danville. It was the only way out.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

Thank you.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[L.C. BAKER]

What makes anyone think that the C.S.A. would wait until the last minute to get their hoard out? The War had a slow crash, they saw what was coming before it got there. They had plenty of time to get it out and stash it. In our case, it was restashed after the end of the war and traveled in wagons.
L.C.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

L.C. Baker:

As to timing and mode of transport - that is what the documented evidence shows. That makes some people, at least, think that.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[ECS]

What makes anyone think that the C.S.A. would wait until the last minute to get their hoard out? The War had a slow crash, they saw what was coming before it got there. They had plenty of time to get it out and stash it. In our case, it was restashed after the end of the war and traveled in wagons.
L.C.

Every former state of the Confederacy has its lost gold treasure stories,a boxcar's bottom falling out,buried iron pots filled with gold,CSA paymasters losing shipments,1/2 ton of gold in the Everglades,etc.Many of these tales are local lore with small amounts of fact grown into fiction.The citizens of New Bern did bury their valuables in iron pots near a NCRR bridge,and the Union uncovered $80,000 in gold coin from a Nre Bern bank buried at a NCRR Company Shop,and a 50 lb Spanish and Cuban gold coin cattle payment was lost in south Florida,but all these incidence were private ,not CSA treasury money.
Does an army,in need of supplies,arms,food,and shoes,move large amounts of gold through a warzone,well aware that the gold could provide them with what they needed for victory?Would the CSA Generals have even committed men for this endeavour?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Every former state of the Confederacy has its lost gold treasure stories,a boxcar's bottom falling out,buried iron pots filled with gold,CSA paymasters losing shipments,1/2 ton of gold in the Everglades,etc.Many of these tales are local lore with small amounts of fact grown into fiction.The citizens of New Bern did bury their valuables in iron pots near a NCRR bridge,and the Union uncovered $80,000 in gold coin from a Nre Bern bank buried at a NCRR Company Shop,and a 50 lb Spanish and Cuban gold coin cattle payment was lost in south Florida,but all these incidence were private ,not CSA treasury money.
Does an army,in need of supplies,arms,food,and shoes,move large amounts of gold through a warzone,well aware that the gold could provide them with what they needed for victory?Would the CSA Generals have even committed men for this endeavour?

If "Higher-ups" ordered the CSA Generals to do so... PROBABLY; they were trying to get to Texas; BIG, HUGE... KGC Army there (was gonna invade Mexico, before the CONFEDERATE WAR). "Google" Planned KGC Texas Invasion of Mexico; they wanted to get the MAIN CSA "assets" to Texas; to "carry on"...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ECS, Go the website of godanriver.com and put Confederate Gold in the search on that page and read the comments I made today. I would post them here but I can not "copy" and "paste."

WELL DONE! WELL DONE!

 

[Citiboy289]

Thanhs for taking the time to post. I find the topic so interesting

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

From your Comment: "I forgot we also have one depository in Tennessee, the name of the town is known. The depository contains 889 large gold bricks which is a Grant from the Bank of England."

What has the Bank of England done to collect that Grant (loan? gift?) since it made it? English financiers do not forget.

When I worked for a small San Francisco investment bank in the mid-1980's, English investors were purchasing bonds issued by various States of our nation. Except Mississippi. Baring Brothers (remember that firm?) explained that Mississippi was the only state that defaulted on Confederate bonds after the War was over.

Until Baring Brothers was paid off on those investments, it wasn't making any new ones.

Slightly off topic - if you Google Confederate Bonds it is an interesting story.

Back to my point. In my opinion "The Old Lady of Threadneedle Street" would have conducted some serious follow-up on this.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! The BRITS of 1860's were DIFFERENT (than Today); CONFEDERATE WAR (REBELS) enabled "investors", grants, loans, etc to fight against a FOE (US Gov't; aka UNION, YANKEES, etc), who defeated the BRIT (Empire) twice before (War of Independence, War of 1812). Mexico was the SAME; the FRENCH were PO'ed about TJ's Lousiana Purchase. CSA Treasury was PROBABLY gonna be used to pay 'em back... OR! INVEST in SOUTHERN CONCLAVES in Mexico, Britain (Canada), and France... dunno.

 

[ECS]

ECS, Go the website of godanriver.com and put Confederate Gold in the search on that page and read the comments I made today. I would post them here but I can not "copy" and "paste."

I hope I read your current comments,but I could only read 5 lines on that site.What information did your ancestor pass on that leads you to believe that maps are at the location noted in your comment?I also don't see the powers that be letting you pursue the endeavour to retrieve those maps.

 

[ECS]

LOL! The BRITS of 1860's were DIFFERENT (than Today); CONFEDERATE WAR (REBELS) enabled "investors", grants, loans, etc to fight against a FOE (US Gov't aka UNION, YANKEES, etc), who defeated the BRIT (Empire) twice before (War of Independence, War of 1812). Mexico was the SAME; the FRENCH were PO'ed about TJ's Lousiana Purchase. CSA Treasury was PROBABLY gonna be used to pay 'em back... OR! INVEST in SOUTHERN CONCLAVES in Mexico, Britain (Canada), and France... dunno.

The British government did consider invading the North from Canada,but Queen Victoria put an end to that thought,but selling the CSA warships (which the US gonernment sued them for and won)and munitions or loaning them funds of cotton future sales was just fine.
The same applied to Napolean III of France and Maxamillian of Imperial Mexico,who held a wait and see who would win while aiding the South.The GRAND ALLIANCE.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

ECS:

I don't think the British government sold the CSA warships. I believe it was privately owned shipyards that built them.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

ECS:

I had the same problem loading all the comments. Try using a different search engine - Modzilla, for example, instead of Google. Worked for me.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

If I understand the situation correctly, you want to open a grave that isn't marked as holding one of your ancestors.

As you've already learned, that's a hard way to go.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

There are probably a large number of mis-identified Civil War graves. After all, this was well before GI dog tags. There is a very moving passage in Horace Porter's book where he is walking through camp the night before the Cold Harbor dawn attack and he notices many of the men have their coats off - which, apparently, was most unusual.

He takes a closer look and they are writing their names and home towns on pieces of paper which they are then pinning to the inside of their coats in the event they fall in the charge.

Extraordinary courage!

There must be a US Government policy for identifying remains when there is evidence of a mistaken identification. You're not the first person to try to get it right (although you are probably the first looking for maps, a diary and a journal).

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[ECS]

ECS:

I don't think the British government sold the CSA warships. I believe it was privately owned shipyards that built them.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

An 1819 act of Parliament forbade ANY subject of the realm to "equip,furnish,fit out or arm any ship to be employed in the services of a forgein state,to commit hostilities any state at peace with Great Britain".
Confederate agent in England,James Bullock of Georgia(uncle of Theodore Roosevelt),persuaded the crown lawers the the act would NOT be violared if only the SHIP was built in England,but armed and equipped OUTSIDE of the realm.On the strength of this,the shipbuilders of the Mersey and Clyde built and delievered cruisers to various ports for outfitting outside of the realm with the blessing of the British government.
Lincoln's minister to England,Charles Francis Adams,protested repeatly that this was a breach of neutrality,but fell on deaf British ears.
For seven years,the US pressed Britian with claims,and Sen Charles Sumner (MA),chairman of the Forgein Relations Committee,presented Great Britain with a bill of damages for her aid to the Confederacy-$15,000,000 for vessels destroyed,$110,000,000 for driving US commerce from the Atlantic,and $2,000,000,000(half the cost of the War)for doubling the duration by her aid to the CSA,or Britain could cede Canada to the US as payment full.
The GENEVA TRIBUNAL awarded the US damages of $15,500,000,Sept 14,1872 for Britains breach of neutrality by supplying the CSA with the CSS ALABAMA,FLORIDA,& SHENADOAH.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

ECS:

Yes. The CSS Shenandoah continued as a commerce raider after the War was over. She killed off the American whaling industry, which was limping along (based on a reduced demand for whale oil) when the War started. Shenandoah destroyed many whaling vessels and there was no economic benefit to replacing them.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo