Book: Treasure Secrets of the LD by Kenworthy , 1997

[gollum]

HAHAHA Good luck in getting anything out of "Tiger". While I understand he does still have some treasure hunting interests, he is VERY private (being VERY polite), and doesn't have much to do with most treasure hunters.

Best-Mike

 

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[alaskabill]

HAHAHA Good luck in getting anything out of "Tiger". While I understand he does still have some treasure hunting interests, he is VERY private (being VERY polite), and doesn't have much to do with most treasure hunters.

Best-Mike

Hi Mike,

Well, as they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained..... gotta try anyway. Maybe I'll get lucky and catch him during a "weak" moment. I might wait until after the holidays to avoid all the seasonal distractions.

Best regards,

Bill

 

[lamar]

Dear Gollum;
Which title is correct is a matter of personal preferences, my friend. I prefer to use the classical Latin form De Metallica Re (About the Metals-Subject) as opposed to the later Latin form De Re Metallica (About the Subject [of] Minerals). The reason for this confusion is because the word *RE* does not exist in true Latin, rather it is a root word, which combined with another word, means *BACK* or *AGAIN* or something of this nature. Our modern English words use the exact same rules in reagrds to *RE*, for example, REdo, REtrace, REtract, etc. Therefore, the books' title is not correct Latin, my friend, and in order for it be so, the correct form would be De Matallic Re(probatur) which means "The Subject of Metals Re-examined(or, [studied in greater detail]"
and not "De Reprobatur Metallica".

Also, we may plainly see that the word METALLICA is singlular in the title, however George Bauer(the German surname for Agricola) wrote about metals and minerals in general. So why the descrepencies? The answer is really quite simple. Back in the early days of printing, every page had to be carved out by hand and in order to save time and labor, many words were shortened, re-arranged or completely eliminated. This was not the fault of the authors, rather the responsibility for textual accuracy lay with the publishers and we may find a great many errors which are attributed directly to them. (Correction:The volume De Metallica Re was printed using movable type, however the typesets were also comprised of wooden letters, numerals, figures etc. Therefore the space requirements remained constrictive, only slightly so. it was not until the advent of metal moveable typesets that the characters became very small, thus practically eliminating the need for word shortenings or re-arrangements.)

As you may see for the photo of the title page which you've so thoughtfully provided us, the complete title would have been extremely difficult, if not downright impossible, to carve in it's entirety. Therefore, in light of the facts, the volume may have been George Bauer's, but he was subjected to the vagraties of the publishing house which first published his volume.

Perhaps in the future it might behoove you to study a subject in somewhat greater detail before pressing the *jumping to conclusions* button, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR
P.S. For a 100% accurate title of the book De Re Metallica, the correct title should have been De Metallicus Reprobaturus, which means "The Subject of Metals (or minerals) Examined Closely". Taking this into consideration, we may understand that not everyone was fluent in classical Latin, even back in those days.

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
To re-iterate once more, there do not exist any documents which outline secret symbols or codes, or whatever by the King of Spain or anyone else. It's just a figment of Charles Kenworthy's overactive imagination. In order words, he made that up in order to help sell his books. There is absolutely no proof of any *secret* documents, nor does there exist any *archivists who wish to remain nameless*. It's all fantasy, plain, pure and simple. The man wove a good tale, not as good as J. Frank Dobie, but he told some fairly good yarns, nonetheless, we must always bear in mind that the yarns are exactly that, simply yarns, without the slightest scrap of historical accuracy about them.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Springfield]

Dear group;
To re-iterate once more, there do not exist any documents which outline secret symbols or codes, or whatever by the King of Spain or anyone else. It's just a figment of Charles Kenworthy's overactive imagination. In order words, he made that up in order to help sell his books. There is absolutely no proof of any *secret* documents, nor does there exist any *archivists who wish to remain nameless*. It's all fantasy, plain, pure and simple. The man wove a good tale, not as good as J. Frank Dobie, but he told some fairly good yarns, nonetheless, we must always bear in mind that the yarns are exactly that, simply yarns, without the slightest scrap of historical accuracy about them.
Your friend;
LAMAR

If we could be granted one wish on this subject, it would be far more interesting to me to learn more about Kenworthy the man. What would motivate him to publish this so-called 'secret information' in the first place? His public personna notwithstanding (i.e., all the remembered anecdotal contacts with TH-er's who hang onto their impressions of their conversations, etc.), what drove the man behind the curtain?

 

[gollum]

Dear group;
To re-iterate once more, there do not exist any documents which outline secret symbols or codes, or whatever by the King of Spain or anyone else. It's just a figment of Charles Kenworthy's overactive imagination. In order words, he made that up in order to help sell his books. There is absolutely no proof of any *secret* documents, nor does there exist any *archivists who wish to remain nameless*. It's all fantasy, plain, pure and simple. The man wove a good tale, not as good as J. Frank Dobie, but he told some fairly good yarns, nonetheless, we must always bear in mind that the yarns are exactly that, simply yarns, without the slightest scrap of historical accuracy about them.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar,

For you to make such a broad sweeping authoratative statement is at best ignorint (sic), and at worst dishonest. Since you choose to remain anonymous, I would chose your word over CKs.......maybe......NEVER! The same argument I have used to Rangler, Stildogn, and the like is "Why should ANYBODY take the word of ANYONE who doesn't have the common decency to identify themselves?

Time and again, you make completely dismissive, arrogant statements, in the process ignoring a vast amount of evidence that runs contrary to your statements. You ignore or refuse to acknowledge people who provide evidences that show something you state to be untrue. You, my friend, are nothing but a flamer. A troll, albeit an educated troll. I have not done this to ANYBODY before, but now.........IGNORE.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good Morning Lamar: You posted -->

Taking this into consideration, we may understand that not everyone was fluent in classical Latin, even back in those days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting my friend, may I apply that quote regarding fluency in a language to the LDM related stones?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[lamar]

Gollum;
It is as you wish for it to be. As you've put me on IGNORE so I've placed you on IGNORE. Does this make you happy?
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Springfield,

"If we could be granted one wish on this subject, it would be far more interesting to me to learn more about Kenworthy the man. What would motivate him to publish this so-called 'secret information' in the first place? His public personna notwithstanding (i.e., all the remembered anecdotal contacts with TH-er's who hang onto their impressions of their conversations, etc.), what drove the man behind the curtain?"

Ego??

Take care,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Springfield,

"If we could be granted one wish on this subject, it would be far more interesting to me to learn more about Kenworthy the man. What would motivate him to publish this so-called 'secret information' in the first place? His public personna notwithstanding (i.e., all the remembered anecdotal contacts with TH-er's who hang onto their impressions of their conversations, etc.), what drove the man behind the curtain?"

Ego??

Take care,

Joe

That's the most obvious answer, but winning odds don't always produce a winner.

 

[whitt459]

lamar is always jumping in to call someone a liar,maybe all should put him on ignore so we can have a peaceful conversation. whitt459

 

[lamar]

Dear whitt459;
By all means, do whatever you feel necessary, however that will NOT change the facts of the matter, which are these. There does NOT exist a single shred of documented proof where the King of Spain, or anyone else, outlined a system of secret codes, symbols and markings in order to facilitate the re-discovery of mines and/or minerals, should they have been abandoned.

Understand this point very clearly, my friend. Charles Kenworthy, along with many others, have *bent* history for the sake of book sales. This is not a personal opinion, this is a FACT. If anyone bothered to learn the actual history of the Spanish New World colonies, they would immediately realize that what Mr. Kenworthy did was to take a fanciful treasure tale and placed it against the backdrop of the New World colonies and missions. This is fine with me and I have no qualms about him doing this, but when he dragged innocent groups and organizations, which still exist today, into the tale, he then placed those groups in a very bad light.

In other words, he slandered innocents for the sake of turning a profit, and you, as well as others, see nothing wrong with this? Perhaps if it was YOUR family whom he slandered, or YOUR religion whom he lied about, then you would see things from a slightly different point of view, my friend.

Therefore, do whatever you feel to be right, however neither you, nor anyone else, can produce the documents which prove that the Spanish had a secret system of codes and symbols for marking the trails to mines and hidden caches.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear SWR;
Thank you for the vote of confidence my friend. I have always attempted to present the facts as they are and dispel with rumors and suppositions. The search for treasure first begins with the search for the FACTS. Unfortunately not everyone chooses to follow this formula.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Lamar and SWR,

I completely agree with both of your posts.

Having always looked forward to Lamar's posts, there is no chance I would ever put him on ignore. There is just too much historical information coming from the man........even though he is wrong, on occasion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Lamar and SWR,

I completely agree with both of your posts.

Having always looked forward to Lamar's posts, there is no chance I would ever put him on ignore. There is just too much historical information coming from the man........even though he is wrong, on occasion.

Take care,

Joe

Dear cactusjumper;
Thank you my friend. And you are correct, I've never claimed to be 100% accurate, as there is simply too much historical documentation for any one person to be able to digest, memorize and catalog although I do try. On another note, you were spot-on the money with the Peraltas, it seems. I do stand corrected and also, because of your astute vigiliance to historical accuracy you have given me some more data to research in the future. I applaud and salute your efforts, my friend!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Lamar,

I appreciate your comment on the Peralta history.

While I have never spent any time, on my own, looking for the LDM, I have always believed in the Peralta connection with the Superstition Mountains and the existence of Waltz's mine. For that reason, I have researched their history.

Knowing Dr. Glover personally, and having talked to him many times, I trusted his research on the subject.
Because it closely matched Blair's accounts and I know how thorough Thomas is, I assumed both men had seen the same records.

In this case, I had no personal knowledge of the early Peralta mining in Arizona. I had seen none of the records. A quick note to Thomas and the records were in the mail. As I have said many times, in this game it's not so much what you know, as who you know.

Like most, I stand on the shoulders of the giants, and Thomas is one of many who have helped me along.

Take care,

Joe

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

CactusJumper Wrote:"I have always believed in the Peralta connection with the Superstition Mountains and the existence of Waltz's mine." 8) I must state that i absolutely agree, and share this same view.

 

[gollum]

lamar is always jumping in to call someone a liar,maybe all should put him on ignore so we can have a peaceful conversation. whitt459

I have always found Lamar’s posts to be truthful, insightful and helpful. I see Lamar offering his opinion. I do not see Lamar jumping in, anywhere, calling people a liar.

These tactics of false accusations are not wanted or warranted.

SWR,

Maybe you should read more of Lamar's Posts. Although he does not use the word "liar" he says so much with much more elocution. He is educated and DOES have a great knowledge regarding Jesuits in the New World. He attacks ANYONE whom he thinks is disparaging his most coveted Order.

Folks in general,

I used to look forward to Lamar's and mine spirited go to's, and he was always polite in our arguments. My only gripe with him was when time after time, I provided statements and proofs that contradicted much of what he proselytized, he either ignored them or said he would look into it, and NEVER responded.

It was just this last thing that when he eloquently called people I know to be honest and truthful liars, and AGAIN completely ignored the facts of both gold and silver finds I KNOW to be real, I had had enough. I have even emailed him pictures of the finds to show that they were legitimate. I just got tired of having to make the same arguments OVER and OVER and OVER. Just like I am with women......when I'm done, I'm done.

Especially since he seems to be afraid to let people know who he is. That ALWAYS irks me (not just about him, but ANYBODY who does that).

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

lamar is always jumping in to call someone a liar,maybe all should put him on ignore so we can have a peaceful conversation. whitt459

I have always found Lamar’s posts to be truthful, insightful and helpful. I see Lamar offering his opinion. I do not see Lamar jumping in, anywhere, calling people a liar.

These tactics of false accusations are not wanted or warranted.

SWR,

Maybe you should read more of Lamar's Posts. Although he does not use the word "liar" he says so much with much more elocution. He is educated and DOES have a great knowledge regarding Jesuits in the New World. He attacks ANYONE whom he thinks is disparaging his most coveted Order.

Folks in general,

I used to look forward to Lamar's and mine spirited go to's, and he was always polite in our arguments. My only gripe with him was when time after time, I provided statements and proofs that contradicted much of what he proselytized, he either ignored them or said he would look into it, and NEVER responded.

It was just this last thing that when he eloquently called people I know to be honest and truthful liars, and AGAIN completely ignored the facts of both gold and silver finds I KNOW to be real, I had had enough. I have even emailed him pictures of the finds to show that they were legitimate. I just got tired of having to make the same arguments OVER and OVER and OVER. Just like I am with women......when I'm done, I'm done.

Especially since he seems to be afraid to let people know who he is. That ALWAYS irks me (not just about him, but ANYBODY who does that).

Best-Mike

I have read Lamar's posts, and have posted my opinion. No need to plead your case, or try to intimidate (bully) me into a discussion about my observation. No need for the personal attacks, either.

I and others know who Lamar is, as well as his real name. So, saying he is afraid to let people know who he is another false accusation.

HAHAHA Bully? That's a laugh. I have always said that anyone is free to believe anyone they want to believe.

I know a LOT of people on TNet, and not one knows his name. I don't personally care, except that when someone makes very authoritative statements, it's nice to be able to know if the person making those statements is a real person, and they actually have the knowledge to make such statements.

SWR,

You yourself are quite guilty of the EXACT same things as Lamar. Time and time again, I have shown many of your statements to be false, and you either ignore the evidence I present or make some lame mumbling statement and move on. What do you have to say to that? I know. You want me to prove it! Okay, even though there are several, the one that sticks out in my mind is when I explained two different scenarios for a treasure trove recovery (one legal and one illegal), you first attacked a formula I had included (which has actually been well researched and is pretty much on the mark), made a statement that I had advised recovering a treasure trove and selling it on the black market (a blatant lie). You also said that what I posted about Uncle Sam watching you while you recover your treasure trove was "whacky". You seemed to completely ignore the IRS Forms I posted to show you that you were mistaken. Even though we have occasionally been on the same side of some arguments, your belittling of people out of hand is very evident for anybody to see. All they have to do is go back through your posts. If you wish, I can provide copies of the back and forth.

You say that I am attempting to bully someone. If anyone wants to see bullying, they have only to go through your posts. When someone was attacking you for questioning their statements, I said at the time that you were absolutely free to believe anything you want (as I have done on MANY occasions to MANY people). I have never attempted to force my beliefs on ANYBODY. I argue my points and state my beliefs, but I don't belittle others for theirs (unlike yourself). The only time I bite is when I have been insulted or when I see someone giving advice that could get the recipient hurt, killed, or arrested. Anybody is welcome to read through my posts and see that what I am stating is true. If I have ever been proven wrong on any subject, I have been, and always will be the first to admit as much. Unlike others here, I am open to being PROVEN wrong. Show me where I am mistaken, because I REALLY want to learn new things. That's why I chose the "nom de plume" of Gollum. He climbed into the deepest caves under the largest mountains in order to find the truth of all things.

I will say this; I know for an absolute fact that large treasure troves exist. I admit that I got into this obsession with a bias. I was shown a picture that I had to swear to keep the contents of a secret (it is not the one I have shown people here that is in a treasure mag). This find was kept a secret and will always be a secret (if the finders ever choose to release the information that is up to them). The markings that led to the find, and some artifacts that were with the find made knowledge of who hid the cache unmistakable. I have also been fortunate to know other people who have made amazing finds (some of them publicized and some of them not). Nobody can EVER convince me that REAL treasure troves do not exist, because I KNOW different. I may occasionally be mistaken regarding facts or events, but I gladly welcome corrections (unlike others). That is why I used to enjoy the back-and-forths between Lamar and myself. My favorite one was regarding Father Joseph Och SJ's Journals. I learned some new things in that exchange. I just don't like myself or my friends being eloquently called liars. See, I have a very strong command the English Language and can understand an insult whether it is "straight up" or "round the bush".

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

SWR,

I and others know who Lamar is, as well as his real name. So, saying he is afraid to let people know who he is another false accusation.

Not true. If you want to be taken seriously, why not let everyone know your real name. Maybe provide some proofs of your history, and evidence of why you say the things you do.

I have only ever used one TNet handle. My real name has always been Mike McChesney. Several people here know me personally. I am not prone to flights of fancy. When it comes to monuments, I admit that I have gone through three stages of interpretation.

1. When I first learned about them. I saw the hand of man at work in almost every rock and crack I saw (some people get stuck here).
2. I then moved on to being too skeptical, and dismissing some things I shouldn't have.
3. I have reached the third (and final I hope) stage, where I take everything with a grain of salt, but compare what I think may be something to what SHOULD come before and after it. Only then forming an opinion.

Best-Mike