Jacob Waltz / prospector

[somehiker]

Hi Paul:

This has just about all most of us would need to know about mercury.....

ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Mercury

"Mercury is mined as cinnabar ore, which contains mercuric sulfide. The metallic form is refined from mercuric sulfide ore by heating the ore to temperatures above 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This vaporizes the mercury in the ore, and the vapors are then captured and cooled to form the liquid metal mercury. There are many different uses for liquid metallic mercury. It is used in producing of chlorine gas and caustic soda, and in extracting gold from ore or articles that contain gold. It is also used in thermometers, barometers, batteries, and electrical switches. Silver-colored dental fillings typically contain about 50% metallic mercury. Metallic mercury is still used in some herbal or religious remedies in Latin America and Asia, and in rituals or spiritual practices in some Latin American and Caribbean religions such as Voodoo, Santeria, and Espiritismo. These uses may pose a health risk from exposure to mercury both for the user and for others who may be exposed to mercury vapors in contaminated air."

There is a thread on DUSA, where Mike posted the USGS report from the testing done over the Sups. some time back.
...LDM/Mercury Vapours from the Superstitions.....USGS Circular# 609

Best:Wayne

 

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[Cubfan64]

Hi Paul:

This has just about all most of us would need to know about mercury.....

ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Mercury

"Mercury is mined as cinnabar ore, which contains mercuric sulfide. The metallic form is refined from mercuric sulfide ore by heating the ore to temperatures above 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This vaporizes the mercury in the ore, and the vapors are then captured and cooled to form the liquid metal mercury. There are many different uses for liquid metallic mercury. It is used in producing of chlorine gas and caustic soda, and in extracting gold from ore or articles that contain gold. It is also used in thermometers, barometers, batteries, and electrical switches. Silver-colored dental fillings typically contain about 50% metallic mercury. Metallic mercury is still used in some herbal or religious remedies in Latin America and Asia, and in rituals or spiritual practices in some Latin American and Caribbean religions such as Voodoo, Santeria, and Espiritismo. These uses may pose a health risk from exposure to mercury both for the user and for others who may be exposed to mercury vapors in contaminated air."

There is a thread on DUSA, where Mike posted the USGS report from the testing done over the Sups. some time back.
...LDM/Mercury Vapours from the Superstitions.....USGS Circular# 609

Best:Wayne

Wayne, yeah the crazy thing is with a little effort and some fairly inexpensive lab equipment you can recover most of the mercury by condensing it from the vapor phase as you heat the Au/Hg amalgam and evaporate the mercury allowing you to use the same mercury again and again with the added benefit of not having to deal with emitting the fumes into the atmosphere. There's really no excuse for evaporating Hg into the air for anyone/everyone to breath - sadly there are too many people who don't know this and are affected.

I remember being in that discussion with Mike about USGS circular #609 and I think I have a copy of it somewhere, but I seem to remember it did not include a specific map or any way to really identify exactly where the highest concentrations of Mg were recorded - I'm sure there is a package of data out there filed away in some government office that has all the specific notes and records associated with that report and THAT'S what I'd like to get my hands on.

 

[cazisme]

Dont forget all the newfangled light bulbs have mercury -I guess the govmint only thinks its bad when you use it in mining.

 

[hooch]

I snorted 2 lines of mercury before lunch, it was wonderful

 

[somehiker]

We all knew there had to be a reason hooch.....

 

[gollum]

Wayne, yeah the crazy thing is with a little effort and some fairly inexpensive lab equipment you can recover most of the mercury by condensing it from the vapor phase as you heat the Au/Hg amalgam and evaporate the mercury allowing you to use the same mercury again and again with the added benefit of not having to deal with emitting the fumes into the atmosphere. There's really no excuse for evaporating Hg into the air for anyone/everyone to breath - sadly there are too many people who don't know this and are affected.

I remember being in that discussion with Mike about USGS circular #609 and I think I have a copy of it somewhere, but I seem to remember it did not include a specific map or any way to really identify exactly where the highest concentrations of Mg were recorded - I'm sure there is a package of data out there filed away in some government office that has all the specific notes and records associated with that report and THAT'S what I'd like to get my hands on.

While not exact, it gave a very good indication of where the mercury is.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Actually, it wasn't the circular that narrowed the location. It was the interview Thomas Glover did with the researcher that did the testing. First, from the circular:





Next, is an excerpt from "The Golden Dream":






So, based on Dr Glover's interview with the man that actually did the testing (Dr J.H. McCarthy), the highest reading in the Supers was when they flew straight down LaBarge Canyon. Very interesting.

Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

Mike,

It pays off to read and re-read some of those books I guess . As soon as I saw the excerpt from Dr. Glover's book I remembered LaBarge Canyon. To be fair, he doesn't actually say that the highest readings in the Superstitions came from that one area - I read it as both routes they took (along the Apache Trail as well as down LaBarge) gave elevated readings and the min/max values reported suggested there wasn't much difference between them.

I'd still like to sit down and look at the notes and actual data - sometimes the data and notes suggest things that don't show up in the final reports.

 

[wrmickel1]

Mike,

It pays off to read and re-read some of those books I guess . As soon as I saw the excerpt from Dr. Glover's book I remembered LaBarge Canyon. To be fair, he doesn't actually say that the highest readings in the Superstitions came from that one area - I read it as both routes they took (along the Apache Trail as well as down LaBarge) gave elevated readings and the min/max values reported suggested there wasn't much difference between them.

I'd still like to sit down and look at the notes and actual data - sometimes the data and notes suggest things that don't show up in the final reports.

Cubfan

I don't see the payoff, All it proves is there's another cinnabar mine in a area with dozens more that have been mined in the area. Cinnabar mines contain a broad mix a little copper gold silver ect. But nothing like Waltz describe his mine was, If you find Waltz's mine I'm pretty sure there will be little cinnabar there, If any.

Wrmickel1

 

[Cubfan64]

Cubfan

I don't see the payoff, All it proves is there's another cinnabar mine in a area with dozens more that have been mined in the area. Cinnabar mines contain a broad mix a little copper gold silver ect. But nothing like Waltz describe his mine was, If you find Waltz's mine I'm pretty sure there will be little cinnabar there, If any.

Wrmickel1

The "payoff" comment was in relation to the fact that I couldn't recall seeing any specifics as to where the survey was done - if I had re-read Dr. Glover's book more recently I would have remembered that.

As to the elevated mercury levels, Mike and I were in a discussion awhile back about the correlation between the presence of Hg and the presence of Au. I'm not completely sold on the fact that the two always go hand in hand, but geology and mining papers I've read over time suggest there's a strong possibility that it does.

The main takeaway I got from the report is that the elevated Hg suggests there are deposits hidden under the upper crust of the caldera's that suggest there may very well be some significant mineralized zones out of sight. Waltz's "vein" may have been one of those significant sources that gave away it's location by cropping out somewhere.

It doesn't pinpoint anything by any stretch of the imagination, but at least to me it pretty much tosses out the Jimmy Jinks "grab sample" report that suggests there is little to no mineralization in the Superstitions.

 

[wrmickel1]

The "payoff" comment was in relation to the fact that I couldn't recall seeing any specifics as to where the survey was done - if I had re-read Dr. Glover's book more recently I would have remembered that.

As to the elevated mercury levels, Mike and I were in a discussion awhile back about the correlation between the presence of Hg and the presence of Au. I'm not completely sold on the fact that the two always go hand in hand, but geology and mining papers I've read over time suggest there's a strong possibility that it does.

The main takeaway I got from the report is that the elevated Hg suggests there are deposits hidden under the upper crust of the caldera's that suggest there may very well be some significant mineralized zones out of sight. Waltz's "vein" may have been one of those significant sources that gave away it's location by cropping out somewhere.

It doesn't pinpoint anything by any stretch of the imagination, but at least to me it pretty much tosses out the Jimmy Jinks "grab sample" report that suggests there is little to no mineralization in the Superstitions.

Cubfan

Well I believe there is a hand and hand between the two, But not when heat is applied to the mix, mercury would vaporize out of the mix in the gases, leaving the rest in a purer form, such as solid granite and gold ect. The same way a foundry does it today.

But I get what you mean' Wrmickel1

 

[Loke]

Speaking of mercury ... and we have all been told about the elevated levels of Hg in fish - well, there is a very simple solution to this :-)
1) Take said fish and hang it (with the head down) in your refridgerator
2) After a couple of days (when all the Hg has collected in the head (like a thermometer)), take out the fish and cut off its head
3) Now enjoy your Hg-free fish!! :-) :-)

Sorry, just couldn't help myself ...

 

[gollum]

Cubfan

I don't see the payoff, All it proves is there's another cinnabar mine in a area with dozens more that have been mined in the area. Cinnabar mines contain a broad mix a little copper gold silver ect. But nothing like Waltz describe his mine was, If you find Waltz's mine I'm pretty sure there will be little cinnabar there, If any.

Wrmickel1

Wrmickel1,

Pretty ballsy stating in such unequivocal terms that the elevated air mercury readings only indicate a cinnabar deposit. When, on the other hand, we have a man with a few degrees in geology and geophysics stating that using aerial mercury test results would be a very good way to locate underground gold deposits, or at least highly mineralized places to start a search for gold. It may not be an absolute do-all end-all solution, but if it means you can find a good place to start prospecting by getting air samples from a 200 foot altitude flyover, THEN I'M ALL EARS! I would like to see the same test done in a grid search, so it would narrow down which part of LaBarge Canyon.

Besides mercury, gold bearing veins usually carry a lot of arsenic, which is why "De Re Metallica" says to look for trees that are black in color, stunted growth, or pine trees whose cones are only near the trunk.

Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

Mike, I'll go you one better...

How about picking a couple dozen spots on the ground out there (in interesting areas shall we say) and doing something like a one hour air sample or interval sampling on and off over a 24 hour period of time and doing the same test for mercury. Taking samples from a plane was a good option for a quick general scan, but wind, air currents above ground, etc... all can mess with that test. Do the testing right there on the ground and you might have a good chance to at least narrow down to a some local "hot spots."

Hmmm - maybe I can parlay this into a business opportunity and I can move out to AZ sooner than I had hoped .

 

[gollum]

Hey Cubby,

That's not one better. Its a logical progression. Remember, the flyover only cuts it down from maybe one or two hundred square miles to ten or twenty. A grid search test may bring it down to three to five square miles. In the Supers, that's still a lot of prospecting to be done.

I think that after the flyover results are in, a good combination of panning, detecting, and XRF Spot Testing should be telling.

Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

Wrmickel1,

Pretty ballsy stating in such unequivocal terms that the elevated air mercury readings only indicate a cinnabar deposit. When, on the other hand, we have a man with a few degrees in geology and geophysics stating that using aerial mercury test results would be a very good way to locate underground gold deposits, or at least highly mineralized places to start a search for gold. It may not be an absolute do-all end-all solution, but if it means you can find a good place to start prospecting by getting air samples from a 200 foot altitude flyover, THEN I'M ALL EARS! I would like to see the same test done in a grid search, so it would narrow down which part of LaBarge Canyon.

Besides mercury, gold bearing veins usually carry a lot of arsenic, which is why "De Re Metallica" says to look for trees that are black in color, stunted growth, or pine trees whose cones are only near the trunk.

Mike

Mike

Ballsy I got, and the man with the degrees is right, except he's not looking for a geothermal gold mine as Waltz described, But all a degree gives him is a bigger paycheck. It don't make him smarter then you or me or anyone else. That's proven everyday at my job your job and everyone else's.

And nice tip with the fish Cubfan.

Wrmickel1

 

[elgatodelnoche]

Great thread. Thanks to all for the valuable information! Now I will look for those sardine cans to help me pin point lost mines. I used to get mercury when in willow canyon and the government well area and in the Bradshaws.

 

[wrmickel1]

Great thread. Thanks to all for the valuable information! Now I will look for those sardine cans to help me pin point lost mines. I used to get mercury when in willow canyon and the government well area and in the Bradshaws.

Mr E

You say you got mercury, in what form was it,

Very Interesting Wrmickel1

 

[elgatodelnoche]

Liquid mercury I sucked out of cracks in the bedrock.

 

[somehiker]

Liquid mercury I sucked out of cracks in the bedrock.

How long do you think it had been there, and what do you think was the source ?
Also, what type of bedrock ?