Clarence Mitchell The Peralta Stone Maps and MOEL

[cactusjumper]

Matthew,

Your first post here was very good, and told the story about as straight as it could be told.

It is, however, old news. This from 2006:
__________________________________

Aurum
11-24-2006, 07:55 PM
"A Stone Map enthusiast recently sent me an article which appeared in a local newspaper concerning the Stone Maps. The enthusiast asked me several questions relating to the article and those Maps. After reading the article, it was impossible for me, or anyone, to answer the questions based on the article because the article was filled with so many misconceptions and outright false facts. It was not the fault of the author because the author was merely repeating the same misconceptions that every other book or article about the Stone Maps keeps printing, over and over again.

The article stated, a man named Clarence Mitchell started a stock investment company (MOEL) based on solving the mystery of the Stone Maps.

This is a total misconception. Clarence Mitchell's Company (Moel) was started in December 1960, over a year before Mitchell came in contact with the Stone Maps when he purchased them from the widow of Travis Tumlinson (1962).

Neither MOEL Co. Articles of Incorporation, nor their Stock prespective, ever even mention the Stone Maps, so the idea the Stone Maps were ever used to sell Moel stock is another misconception.

Another misconception is that the States of Nevada and Arizona ordered Mitchell to stop selling MOEL stock or be indicted for fraud.

The ONLY thing MOEL Co. was ever charged with was forgetting to file their 1964 registration statement. Each year on July 1st, a Corporation must file it's List of Officers, Directors and Agents with the State in which it is incorporated. With this list they must also file a registration statement. Moel filed their Agent List but forgot to file their registration statement. A hearing was held and on November 9, 1964, MOEL Co. officers agreed to suspend sale of stock until the next filing period which would begin on July 1, 1965. MOEL received no fines for forgetting to file. It was an oversight on the treasurers part and the entire hearing lasted 25 minutes......."
_________________________________

The post goes on, at least as long as your post here.

IMHO, the only one who has come up with new information on the Stone Maps, in a number of years, is Garry.

Still, it's good to see you posting this factual information, as your old posts are no longer available for most Dutch Hunters. You can still bring the wood for a white man's fire.

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[Simon1]

Simon, a good arriero ( packer) packs his mule so that things don't fall off.

Real de Tayopa, what happens when the mule you packed so very well, falls off the cliff ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bill, that form of "7" is of Spanish origin

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Simon, he goes 'squash' but the bars remain ok.

 

[Azquester]

Thanks Tramp I never knew!

I found that a log time ago while hiking in the main Superstition Mountain. Don't know if it has anything to do with the Tesoro Map or the Stone Maps but it's there plan as day I spotted it during one of my dead reckoning hikes (I got lost) looking for a trail from the stone maps.

I believe it was Kenworthy that said the Stone Maps weren't meant for travel they were fabricated and buried near a Mine or Treasure next to a banded cactus. If that's true the Mine or Treasure is not far from where Travis found them. Im going up there today for a hike too document the Bronze Cross I found last time right near where Travis found the Stone Maps it's a scorcher out there so it's not going to be easy!

The 1847 sure fits the story line of the Stone Maps having some truth to being for that area.

If anyone wants to see the 1847 glyph in person I think I can give the coordinates just PM me.

Bill, that form of "7" is of Spanish origin

 

[cw0909]

im prob going to be sorry i asked, what does that mean ?

You can still bring the wood for a white man's fire.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[cw0909]

Frank where would T.T. have been able to view the Tesora Mappa, long enough to
copy it, or do you think he photographed it then made a copy, the details seem
tough to do in a hurry or from a pic

Simon it's my opinion Travis carved the stones using the Tesora Mappa as a guide. He may have had the trail maps carved. View attachment 1179907

 

[cactusjumper]

im prob going to be sorry i asked, what does that mean ?

CW,

It's an old joke (kinda). Wood for a white man's fire requires lot's of material. Matthew, when it comes to real history, brings a lot of material/information.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Not Peralta]

Real de Tayopa, what happens when the mule you packed so very well, falls off the cliff ?

Simon 1,then you start the fire, and break out the spices HHHMMMMMMMM.np

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew, can we revisit this, is there more than one copy of
Travis Tumlinson manuscript?
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...-trail-peralta-stone-maps-33.html#post4579324

cw0909,

Yes, three know copies that I am aware of.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Gollum,

Great to see you back posting again ! In one post you've cut to the Heart of the matter and asked the most important questions.

99% of everything you said in your post I agree with. The rift was definitely between Travis and Robert and Robert's group of greedy hangers on.
The rift occurred early on, not later.

The 1% I see differently is in the assumption Robert Tumlinson ever had physical possession of the Stone Maps. According to both Clarence Mitchell and Clyde Koyen, Travis was very secretive about the actual stones and never let them out of his sight. What he did do was let his uncle make a map/drawing, or as Koyen described it, a "rubbing" of the trail stones. Robert and his bunch which included way to many people for Travis's liking, wanted to get their hands on the actual stones. Travis knew if that ever happened he would never see them again and he would then be on the outside looking in. I don't believe there was ever a day in Travis life when he trusted his uncle Robert and Robert's complete lack of knowledge concerning Travis (even that he had died) shows Robert had very little interest in Travis other than getting his hands on the Stone Maps.

This is Mitchell's version and frankly after listening to everyone who was close to the issues, I believe him. I believe Robert T. had a faithful copy of the Stone Maps in the form of a map/drawing/rubbing but not the actual Stones themselves.

Your question about the Flagg Foundation and the Stone Map acquisition paperwork opens another HUGE can of worms filled with misconceptions. There are two acquisition pieces of paper concerning the Stone Maps. The first paper, shown earlier in the Video 6 Thread, is a complete fabrication. The second one is an attempt to prop up the first paper. Read them carefully, compare them to Flaggs Accession paperwork, compare Lee Hammons signature and finally note the hand written (added) notes in the margins. Nothing adds up.

Ray Grant is a fine administrator, I know you know who I'm talking about. I would never say anything bad about Ray publically or behind his back but Gollum in all seriousness, I do not believe Ray knows who or how the Stone Maps came to be at the Flagg/ADMMR. Lee Hammons doesn't know who or how the Stone Maps came to be at Flagg/ADMMR. I sat right across from Lee and asked him point blank who donated the Stone Maps and when. Lee answered he didn't know. I asked Lee if that was his signature. Lee answered no it wasn't. This issue could be a Thread all it's own.

Matthew

 

[gollum]

Hey Matthew,

I know Ray quite well. He is the guy that sent a few TV Production Companies to me that came calling about the Stone Maps. You are absolutely correct though, that he knows very little about them. The only test he knew about was the DAI Exam. He had never heard about Bob Corbin and the FBI, or many other things I assumed anybody associated with them should have known.

The reason I am able to cut to the chase with this subject is that I took six months out of my life (besides my regular job) and spent every waking moment researching the Stone Maps from 1949 until present. I FOIA'd, I called, I wrote, I took people to lunch, I Facebooked, etc etc etc. I don't think there is anybody currently alive that has done more research into this subject than you, Garry, Larry, and myself, or knows more about it. I know what (for the most part) is BS. I know what hard facts there are (as few as they are). I have statements from everybody that had any direct knowledge about the Stone Maps. It is this aggregated knowledge that makes me believe 99% that The Stone Maps are authentic. Travis did not carve them, but ADDED carvings TO them (in his own words as told to a close friend of his in Oregon).

............and to top it all off. Alice Jane "Janie" Tumlinson Jones said to me that her father in no way hoaxed anything to do with the Stone Maps. It kills me that she clammed up to myself and Garry the way she did, because now she is dead, and a lot of answers went with her (even though she was only twelve when he died).

Mike

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hey Matthew,

I know Ray quite well. He is the guy that sent a few TV Production Companies to me that came calling about the Stone Maps. You are absolutely correct though, that he knows very little about them. The only test he knew about was the DAI Exam. He had never heard about Bob Corbin and the FBI, or many other things I assumed anybody associated with them should have known.

The reason I am able to cut to the chase with this subject is that I took six months out of my life (besides my regular job) and spent every waking moment researching the Stone Maps from 1949 until present. I FOIA'd, I called, I wrote, I took people to lunch, I Facebooked, etc etc etc. I don't think there is anybody currently alive that has done more research into this subject than you, Garry, Larry, and myself, or knows more about it. I know what (for the most part) is BS. I know what hard facts there are (as few as they are). I have statements from everybody that had any direct knowledge about the Stone Maps. It is this aggregated knowledge that makes me believe 99% that The Stone Maps are authentic. Travis did not carve them, but ADDED carvings TO them (in his own words as told to a close friend of his in Oregon).

............and to top it all off. Alice Jane "Janie" Tumlinson Jones said to me that her father in no way hoaxed anything to do with the Stone Maps. It kills me that she clammed up to myself and Garry the way she did, because now she is dead, and a lot of answers went with her (even though she was only twelve when he died).

Mike

Gollum/Mike,

I was sure you know Ray Grant, great person and a real gentleman. His knowledge of who donated the Stone Maps and when to Flagg/ADMMR is based completely on Lee Hammonds recollection and signature on the Accession paperwork. But when I sat down with Lee and asked him about the issues he couldn't say who donated them and the signature on the paperwork wasn't his. All I could get out of Lee was he was coerced by Paul Dean to say and do things he regretted later on. I am certain others were involved and have a good idea who but without proof would never speculate in public.

Your research into the Stone Map issue speaks for itself and in my book you are the first person I look to for answers to the questions I have. I believe that "Janie" Tumlinson wanted to do something with her fathers manuscript and book draft but just didn't know what or how at the time and didn't want to let things get away from her. That is why she went so far then clammed up. The Tumlinsons had been approached earlier by "Stone Map enthusiasts" and I think they left a bad impression.

After everything I've been able to find out my conclusions run very close to yours. I think the more you actually learn from the principal sources the more you tend to believe there is authenticity to the Stone Maps. If you listen to the ridiculous rumors and stories by second third fourth and fifth hand sources you will end up believing those fairy tales. It's sad the issues brings out the worst in people and the attacks and uncalled for remarks have to be part of it.

Matthew

 

[gollum]

Gollum/Mike,

I was sure you know Ray Grant, great person and a real gentleman. His knowledge of who donated the Stone Maps and when to Flagg/ADMMR is based completely on Lee Hammonds recollection and signature on the Accession paperwork. But when I sat down with Lee and asked him about the issues he couldn't say who donated them and the signature on the paperwork wasn't his. All I could get out of Lee was he was coerced by Paul Dean to say and do things he regretted later on. I am certain others were involved and have a good idea who but without proof would never speculate in public.

Your research into the Stone Map issue speaks for itself and in my book you are the first person I look to for answers to the questions I have. I believe that "Janie" Tumlinson wanted to do something with her fathers manuscript and book draft but just didn't know what or how at the time and didn't want to let things get away from her. That is why she went so far then clammed up. The Tumlinsons had been approached earlier by "Stone Map enthusiasts" and I think they left a bad impression.

After everything I've been able to find out my conclusions run very close to yours. I think the more you actually learn from the principal sources the more you tend to believe there is authenticity to the Stone Maps. If you listen to the ridiculous rumors and stories by second third fourth and fifth hand sources you will end up believing those fairy tales. It's sad the issues brings out the worst in people and the attacks and uncalled for remarks have to be part of it.

Matthew

I am with you 100%!

The people that have spent the most time actively researching the Stone Maps tend (for the greatest part) to believe in their authenticity. Also, most people on the HOAX vs AUTHENTIC scale's beliefs are based on whether the Stone Maps help or hinder their personal theories.

My most highly regarded statements about Tumlinson and the Stone Maps is from .......

 

[cw0909]

cw0909,

I apologize for not answering your post in a timely manner. I first needed to get in contact with a member of the principal family in the matter to see if it was all right to let some other things be made public.

Travis Tumlinson wrote a personal manuscript and a rough draft of a book which was only about 1/4 completed. Clarence Mitchell helped Travis T. draft the book which was cut short upon Travis death.

Other than the original Manuscript there are at least three other copies. Alice Tumlinson has a copy, Clarence Mitchell has a copy and one other Tumlinson family member has a copy.

Matthew

Other than the original Manuscript there are at least three other copies. Alice Tumlinson has a copy, Clarence Mitchell has a copy and one other Tumlinson family member has a copy.

hmmm ,thats concerning, copies of the Manuscript,and copies of the stones too
wow i guess i should have known there would be copies of the Manuscript
thanks for the info