Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[gollum]

First, I just realized that my post pretty much echoes one made by Matthew some time ago. In going through some Walter Gassler Stuff, I just reread it and caught myself. I like to reference other people if I post information from them. Sorry Matthew. OH MY GOD! I AM OFFICIALLY A PLAGIARIST! HAHAHA

For those that don't know, what Roy is referring to is a story that comes from two places (not just Walter Gasslers Manuscript) that Tex Barkley found Adolph Ruth's Body on Peters Mesa, whereupon he loaded Ruth's body and hauled it to where it was found. Another tale attached to this one is regarding Hermann Petrasch. The story goes that Hermann Petrasch reported losing/stolen his .45 pistol almost immediately after Ruth disappeared. The implication is that Petrasch saw Ruth in his hunting area and shot him in the head. One version even had Barkley describing that when he found Ruth on Peter's Mesa, it looked like he had sat on a rock to rest, and someone shot him in the head at close range.

Now that I have given the gobbledygook stories, I will say why I don't believe it for a second. When Ruth's Body was recovered in January 1932, it was found he was wearing his camp shoes, and had only a small flask of water. His hiking boots were still in his Willow Springs Camp. Anybody that has ever hiked West Boulder Canyon can tell you that wearing only camp shoes and making it all the way to Peter's Mesa would be near impossible for a man in his condition. Especially with only a small flask of water.

Mike

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

k Mike keep it up, the rest of you also, Am listening and learning, since this , the ldm, is not in my expertise, I have nothing to post.


( hush Oro)

 

[Old]

What I'm relating following is pure speculation on my part. Too much time has passed for us to know anything to a certainty.

I tend to agree with Mr. Gassler's account of the relocation of Adolph Ruth's remains. I am posting below the most widely available photo of Tex Barkley gathering the remains of Ruth. There is however another photo, supposedly of the same scene, which is much different. That photo can be found on page 301 of Ms. Corbin's "Bible". Whether or not they are of two separate sites or the same site but staged differently I can not say. But they are different. They shouldn't be, but they are.

My speculation is one is the real site and the other is the staged site. Which is which, I can not say.

 

[cactusjumper]

First, I just realized that my post pretty much echoes one made by Matthew some time ago. In going through some Walter Gassler Stuff, I just reread it and caught myself. I like to reference other people if I post information from them. Sorry Matthew. OH MY GOD! I AM OFFICIALLY A PLAGIARIST! HAHAHA

For those that don't know, what Roy is referring to is a story that comes from two places (not just Walter Gasslers Manuscript) that Tex Barkley found Adolph Ruth's Body on Peters Mesa, whereupon he loaded Ruth's body and hauled it to where it was found. Another tale attached to this one is regarding Hermann Petrasch. The story goes that Hermann Petrasch reported losing/stolen his .45 pistol almost immediately after Ruth disappeared. The implication is that Petrasch saw Ruth in his hunting area and shot him in the head. One version even had Barkley describing that when he found Ruth on Peter's Mesa, it looked like he had sat on a rock to rest, and someone shot him in the head at close range.

Now that I have given the gobbledygook stories, I will say why I don't believe it for a second. When Ruth's Body was recovered in January 1932, it was found he was wearing his camp shoes, and had only a small flask of water. His hiking boots were still in his Willow Springs Camp. Anybody that has ever hiked West Boulder Canyon can tell you that wearing only camp shoes and making it all the way to Peter's Mesa would be near impossible for a man in his condition. Especially with only a small flask of water.

Mike

Mike,

Which is why I tend to believe Sims Ely's quote which can be found on page 18 of "The Lost Dutchman Mine":

"Barkley, did make a further search of that brushy ridge overlooking West Boulder Canyon for the body of Adolph Ruth. Their search was successful. At a considerable distance from the spot where the skull had been discovered, they found a dismembered skeleton which was easily identified. Among the scattered bones was the silver surgical plate."

I believe the location is mentioned a second time, but won't take the time to find it. Common sense, for those who have been in the Superstitions, tells you that Ruth could not have hiked to the spot where it is claimed his body was found.

I also believe that Ruth found what he was looking for. While that may not have been the mine, it could be he found the immediate area that he believed it was located in. That's not a totally unqualified theory, although many will claim it to be the opposite.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

First, I just realized that my post pretty much echoes one made by Matthew some time ago. In going through some Walter Gassler Stuff, I just reread it and caught myself. I like to reference other people if I post information from them. Sorry Matthew. OH MY GOD! I AM OFFICIALLY A PLAGIARIST! HAHAHA

For those that don't know, what Roy is referring to is a story that comes from two places (not just Walter Gasslers Manuscript) that Tex Barkley found Adolph Ruth's Body on Peters Mesa, whereupon he loaded Ruth's body and hauled it to where it was found. Another tale attached to this one is regarding Hermann Petrasch. The story goes that Hermann Petrasch reported losing/stolen his .45 pistol almost immediately after Ruth disappeared. The implication is that Petrasch saw Ruth in his hunting area and shot him in the head. One version even had Barkley describing that when he found Ruth on Peter's Mesa, it looked like he had sat on a rock to rest, and someone shot him in the head at close range.

Now that I have given the gobbledygook stories, I will say why I don't believe it for a second. When Ruth's Body was recovered in January 1932, it was found he was wearing his camp shoes, and had only a small flask of water. His hiking boots were still in his Willow Springs Camp. Anybody that has ever hiked West Boulder Canyon can tell you that wearing only camp shoes and making it all the way to Peter's Mesa would be near impossible for a man in his condition. Especially with only a small flask of water.

Mike

Gollum,

You make some great points here. Yes, Ruth was found wearing only a pair of street shoes and his hiking boots were found back at his Willow Springs camp in West Boulder canyon.

Does that mean you think Ruth died at his Willow springs camp and was transported to where he was eventually found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died on Peters Mesa and was transported to Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died where he was found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Because the only place it made sense for Ruth to have street shoes on was in his Willow Springs camp.

To get to Peters Mesa or Blacktop Mesa Ruth would have had to have ridden there, not walked. Is this correct ?

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

What I'm relating following is pure speculation on my part. Too much time has passed for us to know anything to a certainty.

I tend to agree with Mr. Gassler's account of the relocation of Adolph Ruth's remains. I am posting below the most widely available photo of Tex Barkley gathering the remains of Ruth. There is however another photo, supposedly of the same scene, which is much different. That photo can be found on page 301 of Ms. Corbin's "Bible". Whether or not they are of two separate sites or the same site but staged differently I can not say. But they are different. They shouldn't be, but they are.

My speculation is one is the real site and the other is the staged site. Which is which, I can not say.



View attachment 1237297

 

[Oroblanco]

First, I just realized that my post pretty much echoes one made by Matthew some time ago. In going through some Walter Gassler Stuff, I just reread it and caught myself. I like to reference other people if I post information from them. Sorry Matthew. OH MY GOD! I AM OFFICIALLY A PLAGIARIST! HAHAHA

For those that don't know, what Roy is referring to is a story that comes from two places (not just Walter Gasslers Manuscript) that Tex Barkley found Adolph Ruth's Body on Peters Mesa, whereupon he loaded Ruth's body and hauled it to where it was found. Another tale attached to this one is regarding Hermann Petrasch. The story goes that Hermann Petrasch reported losing/stolen his .45 pistol almost immediately after Ruth disappeared. The implication is that Petrasch saw Ruth in his hunting area and shot him in the head. One version even had Barkley describing that when he found Ruth on Peter's Mesa, it looked like he had sat on a rock to rest, and someone shot him in the head at close range.

Now that I have given the gobbledygook stories, I will say why I don't believe it for a second. When Ruth's Body was recovered in January 1932, it was found he was wearing his camp shoes, and had only a small flask of water. His hiking boots were still in his Willow Springs Camp. Anybody that has ever hiked West Boulder Canyon can tell you that wearing only camp shoes and making it all the way to Peter's Mesa would be near impossible for a man in his condition. Especially with only a small flask of water.

Mike

Stealing from one author is plagiarism - stealing from many is RESEARCH!

Good post amigo! And thanks to all whom have responded so far! This is more like a discussion!

 

[Oroblanco]

Gollum,

You make some great points here. Yes, Ruth was found wearing only a pair of street shoes and his hiking boots were found back at his Willow Springs camp in West Boulder canyon.

Does that mean you think Ruth died at his Willow springs camp and was transported to where he was eventually found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died on Peters Mesa and was transported to Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died where he was found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Because the only place it made sense for Ruth to have street shoes on was in his Willow Springs camp.

To get to Peters Mesa or Blacktop Mesa Ruth would have had to have ridden there, not walked. Is this correct ?

Matthew

Yes obviously - or he could have been carried there as a corpse.

Please do continue.

 

[Old]

Does anyone else find it odd that Ruth's head was found resting in an upright natural position?

I find that very unusual to be a natural occurrence. I think it more likely it was placed there, upright, by human hands.

 

[cactusjumper]

Gollum,

You make some great points here. Yes, Ruth was found wearing only a pair of street shoes and his hiking boots were found back at his Willow Springs camp in West Boulder canyon.

Does that mean you think Ruth died at his Willow springs camp and was transported to where he was eventually found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died on Peters Mesa and was transported to Blacktop Mesa ?

Does that mean you think Ruth died where he was found on the Northeast slope of Blacktop Mesa ?

Because the only place it made sense for Ruth to have street shoes on was in his Willow Springs camp.

To get to Peters Mesa or Blacktop Mesa Ruth would have had to have ridden there, not walked. Is this correct ?

Matthew

Matthew,

I don't think it unreasonable to think that Ruth could have made it to the area I have mentioned. No need for boots, at all.
As for water, I seem to remember something about water to the left and to the right of Ruth's camp. My memory is not so good, so perhaps that's wrong.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Matthew Roberts]

This is another version of the photo cactusjumper just posted.
Anyone who has ever been in West Boulder Canyon at Willow spring knows the photo is not of that location.

This photo is a Maricopa County Sheriff's photo picked up by Orren Arnold who got it from the Sheriff's photographer.

The man in the photo is Maricopa Sheriff's Deputy Lon Jordan.

Arnold titled the photo as a sheet thrown over a bush to aid aircraft in their search for Adolph Ruth. He gave an obscure location in the mountains. Arnold was trying to form up a story about the disappearance of Adolph Ruth at the time. Arnold captioned the photo as the site of "Ruth's last camp". The photo is obviously not at Willow springs or anywhere near it.

The photos location is on Peters Mesa. The mountain on the far left of the picture is the east side of Malapai on the other side of Pistol canyon from Peters Mesa.
The photo location is very near where Walter Gassler's camp was on Peters Mesa.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

Does anyone else find it odd that Ruth's head was found resting in an upright natural position?

I find that very unusual to be a natural occurrence. I think it more likely it was placed there, upright, by human hands.

Lynda,

The man who is pictured holding Ruth's skull may have been able to explain that.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

View attachment 1237315

This is another version of the photo cactusjumper just posted.
Anyone who has ever been in West Boulder Canyon at Willow spring knows the photo is not of that location.

This photo is a Maricopa County Sheriff's photo picked up by Orren Arnold who got it from the Sheriff's photographer.

The man in the photo is Maricopa Sheriff's Deputy Lon Jordan.

Arnold titled the photo as a sheet thrown over a bush to aid aircraft in their search for Adolph Ruth. He gave an obscure location in the mountains. Arnold was trying to form up a story about the disappearance of Adolph Ruth at the time. Arnold captioned the photo as the site of "Ruth's last camp". The photo is obviously not at Willow springs or anywhere near it.

The photos location is on Peters Mesa. The mountain on the far left of the picture is the east side of Malapai on the other side of Pistol canyon from Peters Mesa.
The photo location is very near where Walter Gassler's camp was on Peters Mesa.

Matthew

Matthew,

Thanks for the correction. As I said, "My memory is not so good". The picture is obviously the same one I posted, just cleaner.

Since you have obviously been to the spot in the picture? The rock outcropping in background should still be there so the same picture should be fairly easy to achieve.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

Matthew,

What do I think happened to Adolph Ruth? All that follows is pure conjecture on my part, but here goes:

I don't know (nor care) when Leroy Purnell and Jack Keenan actually came to the decision to kill Ruth for his map. Either before heading out, or maybe after setting Ruth up at Willow Springs. Its even possible that after setting up Ruth's Camp, they all sat around the fire talking DLM. Maybe in gratitude for them packing him into the mountains, Ruth showed them the map at his camp (maybe after seeing the map, they decided to kill Ruth for it). Doesn't matter. I believe Purnell and Keenan brought Ruth to Willow Springs. They helped him set up his camp, then ride out. It would have been way too late in the day for Ruth to do any real exploring, so I think he just sat in front of the fire going over his map and notes deciding on a plan of action for the following day. Purnell and Keenan came back after dark. Took Ruth away from his camp, shot him in the head. They couldn't murder him in camp, because when his camp was searched, they would have found blood and brains all over the place (animals and bugs would not have gotten it all).

One other possibility that was spoken about on Feldman's Forum was a quote (I want to say from Brownie, but am not sure) that when the skull was found, it was still "GREEN". By Green, it was meant that the skull still had bits of flesh attached to it. I have seen lots of bones in the deserts and mountains, but between bugs, birds, heat, and animal predation, I can't for the life of me imagine how a skull could have sat out in the open like that for six months. Besides the heat of July, August, and September, you have monsoon season out there in the Winter. Maybe it was possible Ruth was kept alive for some period of time before he was executed. It is in the realm of possibility that Purnell and Keenan didn't know how to read Ruth's Map. They may have tried to get him to explain the map to them. Maybe Ruth was a tough old bird and didn't tell them squat, so they murdered him and dumped the body.

Or maybe Brownie meant this:



Either scenario could explain Ruth's Skeleton being found on either Peter's Mesa or Blacktop Mesa. I guess Purnell and Keenan would have wanted to dump the body as far from the camp as they could to keep it from being found too soon.

.............................................. or it was the Black Legion! HAHAHA

Now, it is possible they didn't do the deed, but things look very bad for them. Both Purnell and Keenan were seen driving their girlfriends around town in Ruth's Car while he was missing. I used to wonder how they got the keys, but likely Ruth left them at the ranch in case his car needed to be moved, so they (knowing Ruth was not coming back for his car) took it joyriding around town. And there is also the story (can't attest to its veracity) that Purnell's Widow sometime in the 1950s - 1960s, came out trying to sell a map that belonged to her late husband. I think that was Glenn Magill that had that story in "The Killer Mountains".

Mike

 

[Azquester]

Who said the Dutchman Mine was in those type lands? I found it in my back yard years ago. I still have no admiration for City Slicker Vacation THunters they mess things up and leave to much trash!

I don't hunt close to the air base your right it is off the air base...but mainly on private or state land. Taxes will be paid.

I hunt all over and fences mean nothing to me. But if someone points a shotgun my way I'm outta there!

I had a Treasure hunt once with a gentleman from out of state. Showed him a pretty important site and he gave me his word he would not tell anyone about it. Next week I went there four wheeling and was coming out when guess who I saw traveling up there? That very same dude with a SUV full of his buddies showing them the site!

Same can be said for me.

I went Treasure Hunting many years ago for a buddy in New Mexico for one of old Tony Jolly's gold bar stashes. (Victorio Peak) After searching for a few days and seeing no one I decided to ask a rancher that was traveling by about the time lines. Well he told me it would have been impossible for there to be anything stashed under that fence line as the road was built and the fence put up after the time it was said to be buried!

His family owned four complete sections (640 acres X 4) of the land and had since the 1800's. So citing "local knowledge" I left that day a bit teed off I might say for following an out of state legend I had no local knowledge off.

I, was the Vacation Treasure Hunter with green written all over my back!

This supposed map looked real and came from a source close to the Noss family.

I was talking with someone the other day and he told me he'd seen a map where old Tony Jolly hid a gold bar stash and guess what? Same old scenario. The same map! I looked on google earth and so many people have looked where the map shows since I was there years ago they've made a road along the fence line and dig holes all over looking for a Treasure that was never there to begin with in that time!

We can ALL associate with being green and out of our home state comfort zone.

But hey, if you want to see offense in what I said I can't stop you.

All I can say is it's truth. Look at Ruth he's from out of state and he died plus a Fake Roland made off with some pretty important information. Locals don't like interlopers and in Ruth's case, they just shot him.

As to Bill's rant as to non-local interlopers..............ah.......so what. He's got a right to his opinion. Even if he's somewhat off base <g>. Bill, hint...........your local tax bill doesn't cover the Wilderness Area or the BLM land, but my Federal tax bill does. Its as much "mine" as it is "yours". Chew on that for a while. Nite, nite. <g>

 

[gollum]

Who said the Dutchman Mine was in those type lands? I found it in my back yard years ago. I still have no admiration for City Slicker Vacation THunters they mess things up and leave to much trash!

I don't hunt close to the air base your right it is off the air base...but mainly on private or state land. Taxes will be paid.

I hunt all over and fences mean nothing to me. But if someone points a shotgun my way I'm outta there!

I had a Treasure hunt once with a gentleman from out of state. Showed him a pretty important site and he gave me his word he would not tell anyone about it. Next week I went there four wheeling and was coming out when guess who I saw traveling up there? That very same dude with a SUV full of his buddies showing them the site!

Same can be said for me.

I went Treasure Hunting many years ago for a buddy in New Mexico for one of old Tony Jolly's gold bar stashes. (Victorio Peak) After searching for a few days and seeing no one I decided to ask a rancher that was traveling by about the time lines. Well he told me it would have been impossible for there to be anything stashed under that fence line as the road was built and the fence put up after the time it was said to be buried!

His family owned four complete sections (640 acres X 4) of the land and had since the 1800's. So citing "local knowledge" I left that day a bit teed off I might say for following an out of state legend I had no local knowledge off.

I, was the Vacation Treasure Hunter with green written all over my back!

This supposed map looked real and came from a source close to the Noss family.

I was talking with someone the other day and he told me he'd seen a map where old Tony Jolly hid a gold bar stash and guess what? Same old scenario. The same map! I looked on google earth and so many people have looked where the map shows since I was there years ago they've made a road along the fence line and dig holes all over looking for a Treasure that was never there to begin with in that time!

We can ALL associate with being green and out of our home state comfort zone.

But hey, if you want to see offense in what I said I can't stop you.

All I can say is it's truth. Look at Ruth he's from out of state and he died plus a Fake Roland made off with some pretty important information. Locals don't like interlopers and in Ruth's case, they just shot him.

Bill,

Here is where research pays off. Tony Jolley NEVER had any caches of gold bars. He had a hard enough time trying to find the ten he did find and sell. In the interview I have with him, he tells the whole story about how he waited for twelve years before going back to look for the bars he hid with Doc the night before Doc was murdered.



Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Matthew,

It would still be interesting to know if Walter Gassler called you and asked you to make that final trip with him. He did call Tom and Bob, who I believe he only knew casually, and it seems only natural that he would have called a good friend also.

Thanks in advance,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[RWGassler]

Nobodie,
Posting information from my fathers notes does not offend me as long as the information is accurate. Actually, I am amazed but proud that after 30 years there is still discussion about his research and search for the Lost Dutchman.
RW Gassler

 

[RWGassler]

Mike,
Thanks for supporting who I am. I know in communications such as this where there is no actual knowledge of an individual it can be difficult to accept what one may posts.
RW Gassler

 

[nobodie]

RW,
If you had asked me to stop posting from your father's manuscript, out of respect for you and your father I would have stopped.