Jim Bark on Adolph Ruth

[cactusjumper]

Gentlemen,

As there has been some discussion as to just where Adolph Ruth stayed I thought the below might be of intrest.

I've been doing some filing waiting for a delivery and I came across the six page document that Jim Bark wrote in 1931 about what he had discovered about Adolph Ruth from a trip(s) to Arizona. Jim was living in Southern California at the time. The start of the letter is below. I have posted it as it has new tid-bit or two, and it sheds light on just where Ruth was headed, and where it seems he stayed.


"Oct. 1931

This is the story of Ruth as far as I have dug the facts to date.

Ruth came to the Half Circle-U ranch situated on the south side of the Superstition Mts. in Pinal County, Arizona. On may 10th 1931. A man by the name of Mc Knight had driven the car with he and Ruth in it from Washington D. C. to the Cal Morris filling station at the junction of the Florence and Superior highways, about twenty miles south of the U Ranch. McKnight said that he could not go any further, as he did not know where the Superstition Mountains were. Much less where there was any camping place, or any roads leading from the main highway . Morris said he knew where the U ranch house was, and he thought Ruth could camp there. As all trails leading over into the Superstitions Mts. started from the Ranch. Ruth asked Morris if he would drive him to the house. Morris said he would and McKnight continued on his way to the state of Washington wither he was bound. It appeared that while Ruth owned the car, he could not drive it. ...."

TE Glover

Matthew,

This Jim Bark document from 1931 seems to be at direct odds with your account concerning the Ruth/Cal Morris connection. If the letter is authentic, and I believe it is, it marks Jim Bark as lying about what took place. It's hard to imagine that he just forgot what happened. What's your opinion on this matter?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[Gregory E. Davis]

Joe: By your own account, Jim Bark wasn't even in Arizona when the Ruth situation occurred so he could only have gotten the information for his letter from the newspaper accounts, second hand accounts, and what the people wanted him to hear. I do not think that Jim was a Liar, but only received some incorrect information. Remember the game we all played in Kindergarten, where we were all seated in a circle and someone made a statement at one end and by the time it reached the end of the circle, the original statement was something different. Something to think about. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe: By your own account, Jim Bark wasn't even in Arizona when the Ruth situation occurred so he could only have gotten the information for his letter from the newspaper accounts, second hand accounts, and what the people wanted him to hear. I do not think that Jim was a Liar, but only received some incorrect information. Remember the game we all played in Kindergarten, where we were all seated in a circle and someone made a statement at one end and by the time it reached the end of the circle, the original statement was something different. Something to think about. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hi Greg,

I read that a little differently. I saw it as Jim Bark writing the letter while ..... "Jim was living in Southern California at the time.", not that he was living in California when Ruth came to his ranch. Is there something else that shows Bark was in California during the Ruth tragedy?

Thanks and take care,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Originally Posted by TEGlover View Post
Gentlemen,

As there has been some discussion as to just where Adolph Ruth stayed I thought the below might be of intrest.

I've been doing some filing waiting for a delivery and I came across the six page document that Jim Bark wrote in 1931 about what he had discovered about Adolph Ruth from a trip(s) to Arizona. Jim was living in Southern California at the time. The start of the letter is below. I have posted it as it has new tid-bit or two, and it sheds light on just where Ruth was headed, and where it seems he stayed.


"Oct. 1931

This is the story of Ruth as far as I have dug the facts to date.

Ruth came to the Half Circle-U ranch situated on the south side of the Superstition Mts. in Pinal County, Arizona. On may 10th 1931. A man by the name of Mc Knight had driven the car with he and Ruth in it from Washington D. C. to the Cal Morris filling station at the junction of the Florence and Superior highways, about twenty miles south of the U Ranch. McKnight said that he could not go any further, as he did not know where the Superstition Mountains were. Much less where there was any camping place, or any roads leading from the main highway . Morris said he knew where the U ranch house was, and he thought Ruth could camp there. As all trails leading over into the Superstitions Mts. started from the Ranch. Ruth asked Morris if he would drive him to the house. Morris said he would and McKnight continued on his way to the state of Washington wither he was bound. It appeared that while Ruth owned the car, he could not drive it. ...."

TE Glover

Matthew,

This Jim Bark document from 1931 seems to be at direct odds with your account concerning the Ruth/Cal Morris connection. If the letter is authentic, and I believe it is, it marks Jim Bark as lying about what took place. It's hard to imagine that he just forgot what happened. What's your opinion on this matter?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo




cactusjumper,

I don't believe Jim Bark lied and his letter does not mark him as lying about what took place. I don't know why you would jump to that conclusion.

Bark does not say he was there and witness to the events and we know he wasn't. He states he dug into the matter and this is what he learned. Learned from who ? A reliable source, someone who was there or someone else who was not there and just heard the account from someone else? We don't know, Bark doesn't say who provided the story.

I don't believe Bark lied, I believe he told the account exactly the way it was told to him.

If I told you I had learned from someone that a space ship landed in Apache Junction and Abraham Lincoln got out and gave a speech you would call me a liar. But I'm not lying, I'm telling the story exactly as it was told to me. There's a difference and a distinction between the two things, the event and the account as told to me. That is what happened with Bark. He asked about what went on and someone who did not know the story, gave him the information. You cannot assume that the person Bark heard the account from was present and an eye witness to the events and in this case that person certainly was not.

So many things are wrong about the account Bark gives. Things that appear in the newspapers and Sheriff's investigation.

1.---- Ruth didn't arrive on the 10th of May he arrived on the 13th.

2.---- a man named "McKnight" didn't drive Ruth from Washington D.C. .... McKnight was Tex Barkleys nephew (Barkley's mother was living with her family in Mesa, her maiden name was McKnight).

3.---- The name of the man who owned the filling station was not Cal Morris, it was Collins Morse.

4.---- Bark stated "Morris" said all trails into the Superstitions started from the Half Circle U ranch. Not true, First Water, Tortilla Ranch and a trail just east of the U ranch were well known trails into the mountains.

5.---- Morris (actually Collins Morse) did not drive Ruth to the U ranch.

6.---- Bark said, "Ruth owned the car, he could not drive it ...... Not true, Ruth was able to drive the car.

Jim Bark did not lie or forget, he just was a victim of some very bad information.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hi Greg,

I read that a little differently. I saw it as Jim Bark writing the letter while ..... "Jim was living in Southern California at the time.", not that he was living in California when Ruth came to his ranch. Is there something else that shows Bark was in California during the Ruth tragedy?

Thanks and take care,

Joe

cactusjumper,

Jim Bark and his wife Lena Sears had moved to Pasadena California in 1928.
Anything is possible, maybe Bark just happened to be visiting in Arizona at the time.
Bark doesn't say he was present when Ruth arrived in Arizona, he says that he dug into the facts to date.
The letter was written in October 1931, nowhere does it say Bark was even in Arizona. He well may have gathered his "facts" in letters, telegrams or phone conversations.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

cactusjumper,

Just looked at the Jim Bark biography from the Spangler family.
Jim Bark and his wife had been living in Long Beach, California since 1915. He had moved there from Humboldt, Arizona.
Bark had not lived in the Mesa/Superstition area since he sold out his portion of his ranch about 1906. It was then (circa 1906) that he moved to Humboldt, Arizona.
He and his wife moved to Pasadena from Long Beach in 1928.
Barks wife (Lena Sears) couldn't stand the heat in Arizona.
By the time Adolph Ruth came to Arizona (May 1931) Bark had been gone from the Mesa/Superstitions for 25 years.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

Matthew and Greg,

Believe you are both correct on this. I don't believe Jim Bark was a liar.....at all.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Jim Bark did come to Arizona to talk with friends about the Adolph Ruth death but not until after the Phoenix newspapers reported the finding of Ruth's remains on January 8, 1932.

Jim Bark arrived in Phoenix on Monday May 9, 1932. We know this because he wrote a letter to Northcutt Ely on Friday May 13, 1932 and in that letter he stated he had arrived in Phoenix that Monday ( May 9th).

In that letter he described talking to Gertrude Barkley who said her husband Tex had something very important to tell him but he was away just now. Bark waited all day and Tex never showed up so Bark went back to Phoenix to await a phone call from Tex.
Tex never called so Bark left a message for Gertrude Barkley to call him back. She never did. In the letter Bark told Ely he believed Tex and Gertrude Barkley were trying to avoid him.

At Phoenix Bark spoke with Jeff Adams who told Bark he and Barkley had found a map on Ruth's body (January 5, 1932) and they followed it where it lead them up on Peters Mesa and to a cave where the mine was to be close to that cave.
Adams told Bark it took over two days of hard labor and the roughest place he ever saw to get to the cave. Adams said they were unable to locate the mine. (Jim Bark believed Adams and Barkley actually did find the mine).

Adams and Barkley told reporters they had found Ruth's remains on January 8th and didn't say anything about a map or their following the map for two days. It wasn't until later that Adams admitted to Maricopa County investigator Lon Jordan that Ruth had really been "found' on the 5th and for three days he and Barkley and three others were hunting the Lost Dutchman Mine with Ruth's map/directions.

Adams told Jim Bark to stay away from where they went looking for the mine on Peters Mesa and did everything he could to persuade Bark not to get involved.

Jim Bark came away feeling as if Adams, Barkley and his other old friends were cutting him out of what they found or were close to finding. He wrote this all to Ely in the May 13th letter.

Matthew

 

[Steve Jenkins]

25 years ago i worked a mine for a guy north of cave creek..and naturally he thought it was the lost dutchman mine....he wanted to write a book about it but he wasn't much of a writer so he contracted a writer (like magill did) to write for him... he gave the writer all the info and instructed him how he wanted the book written...by the time the book came out the mine owner was hopping mad....the book was mostly b.s and the writer used very little of the mine owners info....i think that happens more often than not..most of the people i have talked to that contracted someone else to write for them was very unhappy...i guess the old saying is true...if you want anything done right...you need to do it yourself

Did the mine owner have one arm Dave?

 

[azdave35]

Did the mine owner have one arm Dave?

no..but there was another miner in the area with one arm..i believe his name was keith

 

[Steve Jenkins]

no..but there was another miner in the area with one arm..i believe his name was keith

Yes, I am familiar with Keith. I do a Jeep tour to a mine formerly owned by Keith. He sold that one and bought another one in the Black Canyon City area.

I am told that he also believed at one time that the mine he owned in the Cave Creek mining district was actually the LDM. He later changed his mind.

 

[Steve Jenkins]

For those who don't have Dr. Glover's first book, some can be found here:

0966209184 - The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz, Part 1: the Golden Dream by Glover, Thomas E - AbeBooks



IMHO, No Dutch Hunter should be without his books. He has done a great deal of the legwork for you all.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

I just ordered this book based on your recommendation Joe. Make sure you get your cut. Seriously though I have been reading your posts and based on that I followed your advice. I ordered his new one also.

Steve