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  1. #31
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
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    start of the third day without water, stupid boo boo on our part. My partner hamming it up. Yes, I have posted this before. I want to emphasize, that if we hadn't found this water it was two days more without water, so I am here to bug you Bill,, thanks to this running arroyo.

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  2. #32
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
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    Deducer, my friend, That is precisely the story on Tayopa, excellent post

  3. #33
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    Gene Reynolds also wrote:

    deducer,

    Gene Reynolds quote about Adolph Ruth having made previous trips to the Superstitions and in particular Ruth's interest with the view of Weavers Needle from that high saddle at the south end of Tortilla Mountain (which also is the southeast end of Peters Mesa), is very important in relation to what Tex Barkley told Walter Gassler.

    If Ruth went a little further (and nothing says he didn't) he would have seen the exact view of Weavers Needle as depicted in one of the maps he was carrying.

    I believe (my personal opinion) that Adolph Ruth was interested in a mine he believed to be near his Willow Spring camp, but also was interested in a map and a mine on Peters Mesa. That would be the mine shown on the map Tex Barkley found on Ruth's body and Tex, Jeff Adams and a few of their friends followed to a cave that was shown on that map.

    Walter Gassler showed me the place on Peters Mesa where Tex Barkley had told him he found Ruth's body. Standing on that spot if you looked to the southeast you see that exact view of Weavers Needle as drawn on one of Ruth's maps.

    Matthew
    larrywv, deducer, markmar and 3 others like this.

  4. #34
    gr
    Oct 2012
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    deducer

    I have given a better look to the leather map that you posted . Is another Perfil map , maybe the original one .
    I would liked to see Brownie Holmes face when he saw for the first time the Perfil map with its " the rock that looks like a man over the point of a ridge " clue . I believe in that moment , this map just had validaded the route which had given Waltz to Brownie's father .
    The question which arise is : Was Brownie Holmes aware about the Perfil map that Ruth possessed , before Ruth's death ( and maybe Brownie was in his shadow ) or after Ruth's death ?
    And another question : Was aware Ruth of the directions that had given Waltz to Dick Holmes ?
    And now maybe you are wondering if that " rock that looks like a man over a ridge " exist . Of course exist . Let's see if the author of the Perfil map made a good copy . In my picture the ridge is lower because a highest altitude view .

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    I believe he was pretty good .
    Last edited by markmar; Jun 01, 2017 at 10:02 AM.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  5. #35
    us
    Jul 2015
    Phx. A.Z.
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    On the leather map I see the horses head, a pointed ear and the other bent over. I guess that it's canyons but looks like the horses head on the stone map.
    CHERISH EVERYTHING IN LIFE, IT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE.

  6. #36
    us
    Feb 2006
    New Hampshire - USA
    Fisher CZ21, Teknetics T2 & Minelab Sovereign GT
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    Always found this interesting - from the printed map on the back inside cover of "Superstition Mountain - in the Footsteps of the Dutchman" by Kollenborn and Swanson.

    There is rumored to be evidence possibly in the form of a letter or letters to prove Adolph Ruth had been in the Superstitions prior to his summer trip of 1931 when he died, however I have yet to see it's existence. Interesting location for a possible Ruth camp in 1928 though isn't it?


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    "There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)

  7. #37
    us
    Dec 2008
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    paul...did that map come in your book?....i have the same book but no map

  8. #38

    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    deducer

    I have given a better look to the leather map that you posted . Is another Perfil map , maybe the original one .
    I would liked to see Brownie Holmes face when he saw for the first time the Perfil map with its " the rock that looks like a man over the point of a ridge " clue . I believe in that moment , this map just had validaded the route which had given Waltz to Brownie's father .
    The question which arise is : Was Brownie Holmes aware about the Perfil map that Ruth possessed , before Ruth's death ( and maybe Brownie was in his shadow ) or after Ruth's death ?
    And another question : Was aware Ruth of the directions that had given Waltz to Dick Holmes ?
    And now maybe you are wondering if that " rock that looks like a man over a ridge " exist . Of course exist . Let's see if the author made a good copy . In my picture the ridge is lower because a highest altitude view .

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe he was pretty good .
    Hi Marius,

    As you know, perfil is Spanish for profile, so it is the same thing I referred to when I called it the profile map.

    Be careful of trying to associate it with the Superstitions, there is no evidence that it refers to the Superstitions. It may well concern California, rather. Even Edwin Ruth, himself wasn't certain and may have made a mistake in that regard.

    I believe that what Ruth was looking for wasn't necessarily the LDM, but one of the mines dug out by the Spanish, probably by the Peraltas. There were scores of them.

  9. #39
    us
    Feb 2006
    New Hampshire - USA
    Fisher CZ21, Teknetics T2 & Minelab Sovereign GT
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    paul...did that map come in your book?....i have the same book but no map
    Dave - it isn't an actual separate fold out map - it's just part of the printing on the back inside cover of the book. I believe Helen Corbin's first book also has the topo map inscribed on the inside covers, but I don't have it in front of me right now to check.

    It was always my understanding that the map I posted was a portion of Tom Kollenborn's "master map" that he's added to over time.
    "There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)

  10. #40
    gr
    Oct 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    Hi Marius,

    As you know, perfil is Spanish for profile, so it is the same thing I referred to when I called it the profile map.

    Be careful of trying to associate it with the Superstitions, there is no evidence that it refers to the Superstitions. It may well concern California, rather. Even Edwin Ruth, himself wasn't certain and may have made a mistake in that regard.

    I believe that what Ruth was looking for wasn't necessarily the LDM, but one of the mines dug out by the Spanish, probably by the Peraltas. There were scores of them.
    deducer

    Three things make me think to associate the " rock that looks like a man over the point of a ridge " with the Superstitions Mountains .
    The first is because Ruth had the "profile " map with him in the Superstitions . I believe he would not carried all the maps he had everywhere he would go . Also the " El sombrero " from the Perfil mapa was the Mexican name for the Weavers Needle .
    The second is because the " man " clue from the map , is a perfect match with the clue that had given Waltz to Dick Holmes . IMO is the same clue .
    And the third is because the " man rock " is in the Superstitions .
    Last edited by markmar; Jun 01, 2017 at 10:40 AM.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  11. #41

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,752
    5334 times
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    deducer

    I have given a better look to the leather map that you posted . Is another Perfil map , maybe the original one .
    I would liked to see Brownie Holmes face when he saw for the first time the Perfil map with its " the rock that looks like a man over the point of a ridge " clue . I believe in that moment , this map just had validaded the route which had given Waltz to Brownie's father .
    The question which arise is : Was Brownie Holmes aware about the Perfil map that Ruth possessed , before Ruth's death ( and maybe Brownie was in his shadow ) or after Ruth's death ?
    And another question : Was aware Ruth of the directions that had given Waltz to Dick Holmes ?
    And now maybe you are wondering if that " rock that looks like a man over a ridge " exist . Of course exist . Let's see if the author of the Perfil map made a good copy . In my picture the ridge is lower because a highest altitude view .

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    I believe he was pretty good .
    Marius,

    Lots of formations in Mother Natures gallery:



    Good luck,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  12. #42
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,782
    6408 times
    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    Hi Marius,

    As you know, perfil is Spanish for profile, so it is the same thing I referred to when I called it the profile map.

    Be careful of trying to associate it with the Superstitions, there is no evidence that it refers to the Superstitions. It may well concern California, rather. Even Edwin Ruth, himself wasn't certain and may have made a mistake in that regard.

    I believe that what Ruth was looking for wasn't necessarily the LDM, but one of the mines dug out by the Spanish, probably by the Peraltas. There were scores of them.
    deducer:...i used to think the perfil map was not for the superstitions until a couple years ago ...me and a few friends were sitting around looking at a stack of pics that another dutch hunter had taken over the years ..we were about halfway through the stack when one of the pics caught my attention..i picked it up and all of us blurted out the same words at the same time.."the perfil map"...this pic was an exact match for the perfil map..and you didnt have to look at it a certain way or squint your eyes to tell.....at first glance you knew it was a pic of where the perfil map was drawn and it was taken in the superstitons

  13. #43
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubfan64 View Post
    Always found this interesting - from the printed map on the back inside cover of "Superstition Mountain - in the Footsteps of the Dutchman" by Kollenborn and Swanson.

    There is rumored to be evidence possibly in the form of a letter or letters to prove Adolph Ruth had been in the Superstitions prior to his summer trip of 1931 when he died, however I have yet to see it's existence. Interesting location for a possible Ruth camp in 1928 though isn't it?


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    Cubfan64,

    On the map you posted, Adolph Ruth's camp (in approx 1928) would have been at the NE end of Trap Canyon along the Peters Trail. The best route to take to get to that camp would be starting out from the Tortilla Ranch.
    Tortilla Ranch was the place Gene Reynolds identified as Ruth using in his trip(s) prior to his fatal trip in 1931.
    I have been through that area on a couple occasions. There is not much water there but it is a nice area for a camp and you are at a crossroads where you can easily follow the trail northwest into the Peters Country.
    Both Reynolds and Morse mention Ruth having been in the mountains before his ill fated trip in the summer of 1931. What he was doing there, where he wanted to go, and what progress he made is anyone's guess.
    The fact he returned in 1931 (in my opinion) speaks volumes.

    Matthew

  14. #44
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,242
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper View Post
    Marius,

    Lots of formations in Mother Natures gallery:



    Good luck,

    Joe
    Who is that guy ? Fred Flintstone ?

    Joe , is not only the "head " that make the map but all the landmarks which are surrounding it .
    This is what make the difference .
    Last edited by markmar; Jun 01, 2017 at 03:12 PM.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  15. #45
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Who is that guy ? Fred Flintstone ?

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    markmar,

    The issue of the rock that looks like a man, or looks like a man's head, (in my opinion) is a solid clue to the Lost Dutchman Mine which may also be a Peralta mine.
    The Perfil Map, also known as the Ruth-Peralta map clearly shows (in my opinion) a mans head.

    As you know there are numerous rocks in the Superstition Mountains that look like a mans head or can be construed to look like a mans head.
    The photo above is of myself at just such a place. A significant thing was discovered inside the opening I am standing beside and the rock above the opening is a perfect depiction of a mans head, complete with eyes, nose, mouth, even hair.

    Do I believe this is the Waltz rock that looks like a man or the Ruth-Peralta Perfil man's head ? No I don't. I think this is a natural coincidence and a landmark that someone used so they could find the location when they wanted to come back.
    I've seen several rocks that look like a mans head in my travels throughout the Superstitions. Just because there are several, doesn't mean there isn't one out there that is the real McCoy. So if anyone discounts the head clue simply because they can find several heads, they are not thinking things through very well.

    I know where the head is in the blurred photo you posted and have to say you very well may be on to something.

    Matthew

 

 
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