Arguemant against Moromon stope

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

how sure are we that it wasn't a pit?

We are not even sure there was any such lost mine, let alone what configuration it was. The stope seems to be the most likely candidate so far.

 

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[somehiker]

Wasn't the original mamouth portion started that way, having been discovered at the surface after a big washout?

Discovered as a deposit of gold ore which was visible on the surface after flooding had washed away whatever overburden had previously concealed it from view.
But not a deposit which had been previously discovered and worked by others, so far as I know.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

It speaks to the near surface occurane in the over all complex. How do we know the stope pre anglo shaft wasn't started as a pit ? There had to be a surface indication for them to get started on it back then, right? Not that it matters what it was since we know nothing for certain about where Jake was crawling around.

 

[sgtfda]

I could be wrong but was it the Mamouth that Bob found old timbers from the Mexican period. I'll ask him next time I see him.

 

[azdave35]

It speaks to the near surface occurane in the over all complex. How do we know the stope pre anglo shaft wasn't started as a pit ? There had to be a surface indication for them to get started on it back then, right? Not that it matters what it was since we know nothing for certain about where Jake was crawling around.

in the late 40's al lewis found a shaft with ironwood timber on the mammoth property that was either spanish or mexican

 

[Oroblanco]

We are not even sure there was any such lost mine, let alone what configuration it was. The stope seems to be the most likely candidate so far.

Why don't you just conclude that the Mammoth mine's Mormon stope was the LDM, and you won't have to be concerned about it any further?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

in the late 40's al lewis found a shaft with ironwood timber on the mammoth property that was either spanish or mexican

For some reason I was thinking it was the Bulldog where they found the old Mexican-style mine. Tom K.'s article on the Bulldog is pretty dang interesting:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: Bull Dog's Gold

 

[azdave35]

For some reason I was thinking it was the Bulldog where they found the old Mexican-style mine. Tom K.'s article on the Bulldog is pretty dang interesting:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: Bull Dog's Gold

jim...it was the mammoth for sure....they found the shaft under a boulder in a wash...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I would have loved to have seen that! Has anyone written an account of how they found it and what happened?

 

[azdave35]

I would have loved to have seen that! Has anyone written an account of how they found it and what happened?

jim....there is quite a bit written about it...quick google search :


Alfred Lewis - Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness

 

[azdave35]

more here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=u...ITDAI#v=onepage&q=alfred strong lewis&f=false

 

[azdave35]

I would have loved to have seen that! Has anyone written an account of how they found it and what happened?

jim..you may already know this but ted sliger (owner of buckhorn mineral baths) was involved in that venture at the mammoth mine

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I would have loved to have seen that! Has anyone written an account of how they found it and what happened?

PotBelly Jim,

There is a lot more to the story but here is the basics of what occurred:

In 1949, a friend of Ted Sliger, Alfred S. Lewis, a mining engineer, purchased the property that was once the Mammoth Mine near Superstition Mountain and the old town of Goldfield.
During WWII the Shumway brothers of Mesa had bought the Mammoth Mine from the estate of George U. Young. The Shumway’s tore down what was left of the town of Goldfield and the Mammoth site and sold the lumber and machinery.

Alfred Lewis had bought the property because while working to evaluate the property for the Shumway’s he had accidently discovered a shaft and tunnel hidden beneath a large boulder just south of the Mammoth Mill, about where the Goldfield Ghost Town tourist attraction sits today.

This old mine shaft and tunnel was not a part of the original Mammoth Mine and in fact predated and was previously unknown to any of the owners of the Mammoth Mine.
Inside the tunnel Lewis had found rough cut timbers and Spanish/Mexican artifacts that were dated to the early Mexican period by the University of Arizona.

Alfred Lewis told his friend Ted Sliger about the amazing discovery and with Mesa neighbors, Hugh Nichols, Tom Reynolds and Charles Waterbury the 5 men formed what became the Goldfield Mines Company Inc.

Over the next year the group took a total of $50,000 dollars-worth of gold in quartz from the tunnel before they broke into an old tunnel of the Charles Hall section of the Mammoth mine. At that point their vein of quartz and gold was lost forever.
The group suffered a final blow when in 1950, Alfred Lewis suddenly died. Lewis was the only one of the group who actually knew mining and the Goldfield Mines Inc. partners gradually sold off their interests until Charles Waterbury was the final owner. It was Waterbury’s family who eventually sold the property to the present owner of the Goldfield Ghost Town tourist attraction.

Alfred Lewis steadfastly believed the old Mexican shaft and tunnel he discovered under that boulder was the famous Peralta / Lost Dutchman Mine. Lewis wrote a manuscript which detailed his findings and belief in the mine. That manuscript can be found at the Superstition Mountain Museum at Apache Junction, AZ.

Ted Sliger would often quip he was once a past owner of the famous lost dutchman mine.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dave, I did not know that...my mom said they finally sold that place and everyone's afraid it's going to get plowed under.

Matthew, thanks. I will check out the Alfred Lewis manuscript next time I'm over that way. Sounds like one heck of a story!

 

[azdave35]

Dave, I did not know that...my mom said they finally sold that place and everyone's afraid it's going to get plowed under.

Matthew, thanks. I will check out the Alfred Lewis manuscript next time I'm over that way. Sounds like one heck of a story!

jim..they were going to plow the place but someone stepped in and saved it....i think they are going to make it a historic site ...there is a new book out on the buckhorn wells...it has the history of the place and tons of historical pics...i bought it and really liked it

 

[cactusjumper]

jim..they were going to plow the place but someone stepped in and saved it....i think they are going to make it a historic site ...there is a new book out on the buckhorn wells...it has the history of the place and tons of historical pics...i bought it and really liked it

Hi Dave,

Hope all is well with you and your family.

Don't know if you have this or not, but thought you might find it of interest:

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo...sortby=17&ds=20&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title3

Good luck,

Joe

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Why don't you just conclude that the Mammoth mine's Mormon stope was the LDM, and you won't have to be concerned about it any further?

Good idea. I have been pretty close to that since first I heard the story, years ago.

 

[nobodie]

Can you see Weavers Needle from the Mammoth mine Mormon stope?

 

[cactusjumper]

Can you see Weavers Needle from the Mammoth mine Mormon stope?

Marius,

The Mormon stope in around 65' below the surface, so the answer to your question is no.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Can you see Weavers Needle from the Mammoth mine Mormon stope?

nobodie,


No, you cannot see Weavers Needle from the Mammoth mine, Superstition Mountain is in the way.

And you wouldn't be able to see anything from the Mormon stope because the stope was 65 - 100 feet underground.

Stopeing is when you strike a rich ore body underground and the host rock is strong/hard enough not to have to shore with timbers.
Many times miners will sink a shaft and then tunnel underneath the ore body then mine upwards letting gravity work for them. Thus the name "stope."

Sometimes miners would stope a deposit leaving a huge empty cavity or room supported only by a few pillars. After the ore body was mined out a crew would go in and mine the pillars.
This was called retreat mining and was very dangerous operation for the men involved.

The Mormon stope was a part of the Mammoth mine, but was some 65 feet underground. azdave35 could maybe explain this a little better.

Best,

Matthew