TALES OF LOST JESUIT MINES

[pegleglooker]

Hello All,
Thankx Mike for all that.... But I was just wondering that just maybe... all the relics where not deposited at Travertine but Signal mt just south of the border. I know that there is a story attached to that one as well, and that some of the relics were found. If I remember right most of the finders were killed off by Indians. Maybe someone just got the two spots mixed up... No
What are your thoughts

PLL

 

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[gflores71]

Joseph,

Mentioned above is how the california gold bearing country was not discovered by Jesuits... well if there were Jesuits in the area I would bet my money they already worked it. Just like in the great mines of Tipuani in Bolivia, discovered by the Spanish many decades after the Jesuits were working there quietly, so they take credit for the discovery not the Jesuits. Well actually the natives but you get the point.

I have been to Jesuit ruins in San Isidro, Bolivia. Very hostile country, bugs, heat, jungle, jaguars etc. There are mines there and mills, lavaderos(sluices) etc still visible. A little ways from there another Jesuit town named Monjillas, also mines and mining artifacts. Another mine called "el oro" etc etc, the list never ends.

"google books" has scanned many old books ( 200 yrs old and more) and some are available for free to download. You WILL see the proof that the Jesuits were indeed the best Geologists and Miners in that era (until 1720's when they were kicked out).

Many mines were covered up in hopes of returning in the future others left open. There are a few documents written by jesuits in the 1700's that describe mine and treasure locations, these are called derroteros. I guess these were done once they realized that they were getting old and still not allowed back in the colonies.

My family obtained one of these recently but have not had a chance to chase after it.

If you read some of these old books of explorations to these mines and treasures performed by Americans as well as Europeans you will have your heart racing for adventure.

Gilbert

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey Gilbert,
NO NO NO ...... Don't stop there..... Tell us more..... NOW!!!!!

-Please-
PLL

 

[gflores71]

Pegleglooker,

History is fascinating, It would take days for me to quit writing about colonial period mines and treasures.

Another example, a British man appeared in a small town called Serrano. He had an old book from the 1700's, in the last few blank pages was writting from a Jesuit in Spanish. He gave the locations of treasures that were buried at the time they were expelled from the colonies. They were forced to leave in a hurry and some probably met death in this process. They became the enemy, it was known of their riches at this time as well as their plans to promote the Alto Peru(now Bolivia) to revolt.

One of my employees acted as the gide of a many month expedition trying to locate different sites. One of them in a place called "el fuerte" wich is located accross the river and to the left of la Higuera were Che Guevara was killed. It described a large treasure buried in a "cueva rupestre" meaning a cave with ancient paintings. Well we found seven so far and from reports from the natives there could be more.

Another site he was taken to is suppossed to be where they collected a large amount of ingots (it actually says the weight in arrobas, an old form of measurement, totalling TONS)from different mines in the region. It mentions the "puente del inca" or inca bridge as the main reference point. They excavated according to the measurements given in relation to this structure. It appears they thought a section with stone workings at the edge of the river must have been the location but my family did some more extensive research of the area an we found actual remnants of the bridge. How ever none of my detectors pic up anything from top. We went over the cliff using repelling gear and did not find an entrance or tunnel or anything to suggest a cover. They were amazing engineers, so anything could be expected. We will be heading back there in the future to continue the search.

A different booklet named " tesoros de Chuquisaca" meaning treasures of Chuquisaca, mentioned many treasures by means of copies of these derroteros written by hand. One was interesting because it mentioned a mine within a certain distance of the town Challwamayu, well I would love to tell what the actual name is today but better not. We found the entrance to the mine and on close inspection it is a gold mine, even has the different levels of soil marked with roman numbers. This derrotero mentioned the mine was worked by the cousin of the Virey of Peru with 200 slaves. Once the revolution started they had to flee, carrying what they could and buried two containers with raw gold in the entrance of the mine. I have not been able to locate this because with time the entrance has partially filled with debris from the roof of the mine. This will require work with machinery and the problem is that there are too many people living near that area.

the stories go on and on...

Gilbert

 

[gflores71]

To get back to the original post...

La Polla is said to be the richest Gold mine in Bolivia, it has been motive of many explorations including some financed by presidents.

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey guys,
I ran across this and thought it might help some of you.. and others may already know. It's a list of Jesuit priest's. This is from the Bancroft Library

PLL

Abad, Isidore Fernandez, 1750. Benavides, Martin, (1697)-1700.

Acuiia, Juan Francisco, 1767. Bentz, Antonio Ma,, 1750-66.

Adame, Laurencio, 1009. Berra, Fernando, 1767.

Aguila, Vicente, (160G)-1641. Beyerca, (1095).

Aguirre, Manuel, 1750-64.* Blanco, Juan, 1748.*

Alava, Francisco, 1756-7. Bonifacio, Luis, (1609)-1640.

Albieuri, Juan, 1633. Borio, Guillermo, 1750. ,

Almela, Miguel, 1764-7. Bueno, Pedro, (1646).

Alvarez, Lucas Lud., 1750. Burgesio, Martin, (1618-20).

Anaya, Fran. Javier, 1742-67. Burgos, Juan Muiioz, 1677-94.

Andonaiqui, Roque, 1742.* Calderon, Jose", 1730.*

Angel, Juan, (1619-21). Calvo, Juan, (1609).

Anzieta, Juan B., (1678)-1681. Campos, Agustin, 1693-1735.

Arce, Ignacio, 1730. Canal, Geronimo, (1044)-i653.

Arce, Juan Antonio, 1742. Cafias, Cristobal, 1730.

Armas, Jose", 1730. Capetillo, Miguel, 1734.

Arriola, Agustiu, 1742-50.* Cardenas, Juan, (1619-21).

Avendano, Juan, 1730. Cardenas, Lorenzo, (1630).

Azpilcueta, Martin, (1630)-1636. Carranco, (1696).

Balestra, Angel, (1619)-1644. Cartagena, Manuel, 1742.*

Baltasar, Juan Ant. 1757. Castaiio, Bartolome", (1618-46).

Barrera, Diego Jose", 1760-7. Castellanos, Pedro, (1688).

Basaklua, 1710. Castini, Pedro Juan, (1018-44).

Basilic, Tomas, 1617. Castro, Antonio, 1767.

Bastiromo, Melchor, (1699)-1701. Castro, Francisco, 1593-1627.



LIST OF JESUITS.



579



Cava, Sebastian, 17C7.
Cavero, Juan Fern., (1678)-1G90.
Cedano, Juan Ant., 1756-07.
Celestri, Carlos, (1688).
Cervantes, Andres, (1078).
Cervantes, Baltasar, (1640).
Clericis, Alberto (1609).
Clever see Klever.
Collantes, Jose", (1632)-1G44.
Contreras, Pedro Ruiz, 1697-8.
Copart, Juan B., (1078).
Cordaveras, Manuel, 1742.
Corte"s, Jacinto, (1068-71).
Covarrubias, Jose", (1078).
Cruz, Diego de la, (1616).
Cubedu, Juan, 1767.
Davila, Luis, 1G78.
Diaz, Joaquin F6lix, 1744-60.
Diaz, Manuel, 1701.
Diez, Pedro Rafael, 1767.
Duqiie, Ignacio, 1742.
Echajoyan, Juan, 1730.
Egidiano, Andre s, (10GO)-16G7.
Escalona, Jose", 1730-50.
Esgrecho, Felipe, 1088.
Espinosa, Alonso, 1754-67.
Fentauez, Bartolome", 1750.
Fernandez, Juan, (1720-30).
Flores, Lorenzo, (1640).
Fraideiieg, George, 1767.
Franco, Josd, 1750.
Gallardi, Luis Ma., (1720J-30.
Garcia, Lorenzo Jose", 1750-67.
Garfias, Jose", 1750-67.
Garrucho, Jose", 1744-07.
Gerstner, Miguel, 1750-07.
Gil, Adan, (1099)-! 700.
Godinez, Miguel, (1G18)-1644.
Gomar, Antonio, (161S)-1700.
Gomez, Marcos, 1032.
Goiii, Pedro Matias, 1G77-8.
Gonzalez, Andres, 1730.
Gonzalez, Francisco, (1099)-! 702.
Gonzalez, Fran. Javier, 1704-7.
Gonzalez, Ignacio, 1750-1767.
Gonzalez, Manuel, (1088)-! 730.
Gonzalez, Miguel Elias, 1767.
Gorgoll, Juan, 1763-7. (?)
Grashoffer, Juan B., 1731-2.
Gudino, Diego, 1730.
Guerrero, Cayetano, 1730.
Gutierrez, Buenav., 1742-50.
Gutierrez, Francisco, 1756-7.
Gutierrez, Lorenzo Ign., 1740-1.
Guzman, Diego, 1615.
HafFenrichter, Jose", 1761-2.
Hardenas, Juan, (1624-44).
Ha we, (1756).
Hidalgo, Tomas, (1071).
Imaz, "Patricio, 1750.



Ita, Francisco, 17G4-7.
Januske, Daniel, 1093-171G.
Jimenez, Jose", (1G78).
Jimeno, Custodio, 1764-7.
Kappus, Marcos Ant., 1094-1716.
Keller, Ignacio Javier, 1742-59.
Kino, Eusebio, 1684-1711.
Klever, Manuel, 1767.
Kolub, Wenceslao, 1767.
Kurtzel, Enrique, 1764-7.
Labora, Juan, 1757.
Laguna, Pio, 1767.
Lauria, Cristobal, 1730.
Le Roy, Maximiliano, 17G4-7.
Leal, Antonio, 1688-1701.
Liebana, Jose, 1767.
Lizazoin, Ignacio, 1750-G3.*
Loaiza, Francisco, 1750-64.
Lombardo, Natal, 1078.
Loyola, Marcos, (1688).
Macida, Pedro Pablo, 1767.
Maires, (1701).

Marciamares, Luis Ma., 1730.
Marjiano, Luis Ma., (1722-3).
Marras, Daniel A., (1G73)-80.
Martinez, Juan, (1678).
Martinez, Manuel, 1632.
Masquina, Diego, (1678).
Mendez, Antonio, (1078).
Mendez, Pedro, (1592)-1G35.
Mendivil, Pedro, 1740.
Mendoza, Juan, (1040).
Meneses, Juan, (1090).
Mercado, Bernardo, 1750.
Mercado, Nicolds, 1701.
Merino, Lucas,, 1700-7.
Mesa, Jose" Nic ., 1763-8.
Mesa, Pedro, (1678).
Michel, Francisco Andres, 1764-7.
Middendorff, Bernardo, 1756-07.
Miguel, Domingo, 1088.
Miner, Bias, 1707.
Ming, Guillermo, (1700).
Minutili, Geronimo, 1706.
Miquio, Jose", 1742.
Miranda, Tomas, 1750.*
Molarja, Ignacio, (1053).
Molina, Jose" Javier, 1737-45.
Montepio, Egidio, 1046.
Montoya, Francisco Jav., (1700).
Navarro, Gonzalo, (1071)-1678.
Nentoig, Juan, 1750-67.
Neve, Jose", 1707.
Nieto, Juan Estan., 1742.
Och, Joseph, 1750-04.*
Olinano, Francisco, (1018-20).
Ordaz, Manuel, (1097).
Oro, Nicolas, 1730.
Orobato, Juan B., (1592-1600).
Osorio, Jose, (10/8).



580



LAST OF THE JESUITS IN SONORA.



Oton, (1619-21).
Pae/, Melchor, (lG56)-76.
Palomino, Jos6 Ign., 1742-67.
Pantoja, Pedro, (1639).
Paredes, Bias, (1618)-1636.
Paris, Francisco, (1646)-1653.
Pascua, Javier, 1767.
Pascual, Juan, (161S)-1632.
Paver, Josti Fran., 1750-67.
Pecoro, Fernando, 1681.
Peiia, Salvador, 1750.*
Perea, Jose" Torres, 1741-3.
Perera, Nicolas, 1730-67.
Perez, Martin, 1591-1626.
Perez, Tomas, 1750-64.*
Pfefferkorn, Ignacio, 1756-67.
Pimentel, Francisco, 1750.
Pistoya, Geronimo, (1678).
Polici, Horacio, (1695).
Prado, Nicolas, 1681-97.
Proto, Pedro, (1728).
Rapuani, Alejandro, 1740-67.
Renter, Francisco, (1678).
Rhuen, Enrique, 1750-1.
Ribas, Andres Perez, 1604-20.
Rio, Miguel Marcos, (1646)-53.
Rojas, Carlos, 1742-67.
Roldan, Jose, 1742-67.
Romero, Benito Ant., 17647.
Ronderos, Jos6, 1767.
Rubio, Vicente, 1764-7.
Sabanzo, Antonio Diego, (1678).
Sachi, Nicolas, 1767.
Saenz, Bartolome, 1750-67.
Saeta, Franoisco Jav. , 1695.
Salazar, Julian, 17647.
Salgado, Juan Lorenzo, 1740-67.
Salvatierra, Juan Ma., 1680-90.
Sancbez, Bartolom, 1757.
Saucbez, Manuel, (1678).
Sanchez, Ramon, 1767.
Sandoval, Luis, (1678).
San Martin, Juan, 1730.
Saiitaren, Hernando, (1592)-1600.



Santiago, Alonso, (1592)-1594.
Sebastian, Jose Felix, 1767.
Sedelmair, Jacobo, 1736-67.
Segesser, Felipe, 1731-50.
Sepulveda, Francisco, (1678).
Sierra, Alvaro Flores, (1670J-73.
Silva, Pedro, (1678).
Slesac, Francisco, 1767.
Sola, Miguel, 1750.
Somera, Miguel Fern., 1750-67.
Soto. Francisco Jav., (167S)-S8.
Steb, Juan, 1767.
Steiger, Caspar, 1733-62.
Tapia, Gonzalo, 1591-4.
Tapia, Jose, (1676-8).
Tello, Tomas, 1750-1.
Tomas, Gaspar, 1678-81.
Toral, Jos, 1730-50.
Torices, Francisco, (1632).
Torres, Jos6, 1743.
Ugarte, Martin, 1604-24.
Urquisa, Antonio, 1678.
Valladares, Diego, 1750.
Vandersipe, Diego, (1618)-51.
Varela, Gaspar, (1619)-36.
Varela, Juan, (1619)-36.
Varilla, Gaspar, 1696-1701.
Vega, Miguel, 1749-67.
Velarde, Luis, 1702-30.
Velasco, Juan B., (1592)-! 61 3.
Velasco, Pedro, 1607-(1621).
Ventura, Antonio. 1767.
Victoria, Alonso, (1678).
Villafafle, Hernando, (1592)-1634.
Villafane, Nicolas, 1678.
Villalta, Cristobal, 1604-23.
Villanuno, 1649.

Villaroya, Francisco Jav., 1763-7.
Vivas, Luis, 1753-67.
Wazet, Jos6, 1767.
Weis, Javier, 1767.
Zambrano, Pedro, (1631).
Zamora, Marcos, 1730.
Zerquera, Juan, 1750.

 

[Chagy]

I'm lookinf for information on aJesuit Padre Francisco de Leon y Cabrera
any help will be appreciated,

Thanks ,
]
Chagy.....

 

[cactusjumper]

Chagy,

Could you flesh out what you know beyond the name? There is a Franciscan priest by the name of Jose Maria Cabrera but I don't believe there was a Francisco, at least not in the New World. Do you have an era, country or specific treasure? Something along the lines of the Atocha?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

No, I think Chagy is looking for the Priest that survived the 1715 Spanish Fleet Hurricane.

His quote:

Father Francisco de León y Cabrera described the storm the following month. The hurricane was so severe and turbulent that…[old sailors]…had never seen one like it. Such was the violence of the sea waves that they seemed like arrows even to those on land… It is calculated that more than six hundred other persons drowned or were missing from all the ships in these coasts and beaches, with the added misfortune that, after some of the ships and parts of the cargo of others had been washed ashore, the furious swaying to and fro of the sea waves would drag everything back into the ocean. (Gold, Galleons & Archaeology by Robert J. Burgess and Carl J. Clausen)

Maybe if you can find a copy of that book, tere will be more about him. I can't find him on any of the three lists of Jesuits in Nueva Espana. I will keep looking though.

I would think that there would be more about him and his questioning in the inquiry after the hurricane in the Archivo De Los Indios in Seville.

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

Here are a couple of contemporary "Leon Y Cabreras" (most likely related in some way).



1.Joaquín Cayetano Ponce de León y Cabrera († 1743), 14. Duque de Nájera, 8. Duque de Arcos, 10. Duque de Maqueda

2.Francisco Ponce de León y Cabrera († 1763), dessen Bruder, 16. Duque de Nájera, 10. Duque de Arcos, 12. Duque de Maqueda

Also, I'm sure you have probably already heard of this guy, but maybe his diary would help you as well:

Padre Diego Rivadeneira watched La Capitana sink from the deck of another ship in the fleet and wrote about it in his diary. Two years later, he sailed aboard the 900-ton Maravillas. When she sank off the Bahamas, six hundred souls perished and five million pesos in silver and gold were lost. Padre Diego was one of forty-five who survived. His diary eventually found its way into the Archivo General de Indias in Seville, where its rediscovery provided Robert McClung with the clues he needed to locate and salvage La Capitana in 1996. Among the artifacts recovered were four thousand silver coins, pottery, two silver ingots, and bronze cannon balls. Dave Horner’s Shipwreck contains a complete recounting of La Capitana and the salvaging of her cargo.

Best-Mike

 

[Chagy]

cactusjumper,

Gollum got the bull by the horns....yes Padre Francisco de Leon y Cabrera was a survivor of the 1715 fleet...He got aboard the fleet in Veracruz.....Gollum I do hae the book and I do have his declaration to the Spaniaerds from the AGI but his declaration is very vague.
There is a more detailed declaration at the Vatican and that is the one I'm looking for.....I also believe you nailed it with that Francisco Ponce de Leon Y Cabrera/1763.....That very well may be his full name....

Any other Information will be appreciated or if I can be guided in the right direction as to where I could find more information..

All the best,

Chagy

 

[Chagy]

Gollum,

I dont think the Padre Diego with the diary will do us any good since he was in the Capitana that sank in 1649 and later in the Maravillas that sank in 1656....Even if he was 20years old when he was in the Capitana by 1715 we would have been 86years old....

Thanks,

Chagy....

 

[gollum]

Hey Chagy,

The Ponce de Leon Y Cabrera men were also the Dukes of Arcos and Maqueda. Here is a link to the history of the Ponce de Leon Y Cabreras:

http://www.casacampana.com/history3.htm

Here is a name as well. In the last paragraph of that website:

Finally, a special mention for Manuel Pérez Regordán, the official historian for Arcos de la Frontera. He has lived here all his life and has devoted exhaustive hours of research in order to document the history of the town. Seek him out if you come to Arcos de la Frontera. He knows more about this place than anyone else!

Here is a link to the guys website. Contact him through there.

http://es.geocities.com/sustitutodeweboficial/cronista.htm

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

One more thing;

Those dates with the Crucifixes are the dates of those peoples' deaths.

Mike

 

[Chagy]

Does anyone have pics of the marks used by the Jesuits in their silver bars from Mexico...I have been told that there was no such thing as "a mark" that all the mines had their own mark but the most common was a cross....I have also seen a cross with a "V"


Thank you,

Chagy.....

 

[gollum]

Does anyone have pics of the marks used by the Jesuits in their silver bars from Mexico...I have been told that there was no such thing as "a mark" that all the mines had their own mark but the most common was a cross....I have also seen a cross with a "V"


Thank you,

Chagy.....

Hey Luis,

Check out my website: http://www.1oro1.com

On the left navigation pane, click on the Jesuit Button. There are several pictures of both silver and gold bars bearing the Jesuit Cross and "V"

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Congratulations on the fine job you are doing on your site.

Can you explain the difference between a "Jesuit Cross" and a Franciscan cross?

Thanks.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Congratulations on the fine job you are doing on your site.

Can you explain the difference between a "Jesuit Cross" and a Franciscan cross?

Thanks.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

Thanks Joe,

Not knowing gads about Franciscans, I had to do a little research. The Franciscans typically use the Greek Tau Symbol, which is basically a capital "T". This is the same type of cross that Christ was nailed to, and St. Francis very often used it in signing his name.

Best-Mike

 

[Chagy]

Hey Mike,

I had saved this pics in my computer a while back, I didnt know it was your website.....These are the only pics I was able to find online. Do you know of anyother pics that can be found online...

Do you know what the "V" stands for?

By the way great website!!!

Chagy......

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Thank you for your response.

Your picture surfaced quite some time ago, and I did a little research on crosses at that time.

The Jesuits used the standard Christian cross, as far as I know. It was used with some stylistic embellishments, but the body of the cross remained constant. It was a standard Christian cross.

The two bars in the lower left hand corner of the table, with Kino's name on them, have a St. George cross and a Teutonic cross, which is simply comprised of four Tau crosses. Have you searched for examples of when either of these two crosses were ever used by Jesuits?

Here are some depictions of a "Jesuit" cross with common artistic embellishments:

Have you seen any examples of the type of crosses used on the bars being used in the New World during Kino's time?

Thank you,

Joe