Peglegs Black Gold Nuggets

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

That pic is from 1971. The guy that had the nuggets knew exactly where to find as many as he could go and pick up. They are right where I said previously; within a 2 mile radius of Ocotillo Wells on the 78. At the time, they were recovered from a six foot deep wash. Who knows if it's there any more. Might be covered back up.

Notice how the black nugget looks almost powder coated? That's how you can tell it's not just desert varnish, but a chemical reaction to the copper oxides alloyed in the gold.

best,

Mike

 

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[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

That's close to one of the area's i was looking at. however that spot i seek is NOT park land. It's a little south of that area.You know there is a story about a a wealthy spanish mine owner by the name don juan who in 1810 left guadalupe for california witha a caravan of 60 horses some with gold . but was attacked by indians somewhere around carrizo and maybe it was a bit north from there (lost mines and buried treasure of caliofnia p21 r a pierce).My point being it says carrizo but maybe he was on the west side of fish mts.?? back to your pix I wonder if this guy you knew was the one from desert magazine fame from the 60's. I keep wondering if that guy had any family that might be sti;; aroound...Have you ever heard of a dr decorse and the story of the yuma deserter?? it's from a la times article around 1959. i'm going to yuma on mon day to see if i can find the deserter on any old records his name was george ham. i checked san bernardino death records but they only go back to 1873 and supposely this guy died in 1871. i would like to get out on the desert but i don't have a 4wheel drive. maybe we should split some fuel and food costs and maybe head out sometime.. i am off during the week and work all weekends. it's always less crowded during the week anyway...i'm very interested in the stories not so much the gold.. that's for u guys to find... i just want to write about it.. maybe write a book about the adventure...how cool would that be....although it would validate the book if i was to find amybe a nugget or two.. anyway talk at ya soon....

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

almost forgot... find it interesting that the desrt magazine behind the hand has a article about "the man who found peglegs gold"......

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hey PLL,

The story you are talking about is a ba$tardized version of the Spanish Renegade Story. Bunch of Spanish Renegade Soldiers put ashore in 1812 near Oceanside. Go South and East pillaging missions and pueblas down into Mexico. On the way back, they had about 10 oxcarts full of loot. They raided an Indian village while the braves were away. Braves chased them down to the San Sebastian Marsh (where San Felipe Creek and Carrizo Wash meet). Big fight, Spanish bury as much of the loot as they could. Indians kill all the Spanish. Years later, the grandson of one of the Indians tells the story to a local rancher, and the legend was born. That is the Cliff Notes version of the story.

In the late sixties and early seventies, George Mroczkowski and some buddies went out there, and recovered a lot of religious stuff and a Spanish Short Sword. All that area is now a Protected Wilderness Area. Don't let the Rangers catch you digging anywhere thereabouts. Big fines, maybe jail. They watch it closely.

A few years ago, someone found a bar of gold standing on end at the bottom of a wash.

Best,

Mike

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey gollum,
just tried to post a lengthy reply and lost is all... I read about george b4 here, but desert mag from 12/67 talks about "the man who found peglegs gold" and how he found a scabbard near his find. this is what promted all the peralta stories. I personally think george may have found the warners gold area. i'm sure you know the story of the yaqui indian from warners, who could get gold anytime he wanted to. story says that he was tailed by 2 mexican cowboys and left them at yaqui well. after they returned to warners the indian shows up 12hrs later with gold. if you figure 6hrs from yaqui well and 6hrs back. that would be you gold. i'll enclose pixs of the desert mag cover and article for you.

best
PLL

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

I don't think so PLL,

The nugget in hand is definitely a black one. I reread the story, and found something I didn't catch the first time. I'll have to do a little snoop and poop and see if anything pans out. The source of those nuggets may be far from where we think.

Best,

Mike

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey gollum,
i got something new for you also. for the last week or so i've been trying to track down any relatives of henry e w wilson. he was a contributor to desert magazine and his main subject....pegleg. he was the one who first mentioned joh o smith. he also spent 50yrs looking for pegleg. he sent letters from 1940 to 1957. there was a 5 page tribute to him in may 1969. in this article he says he 1st heard of pegleg from a prospector named frank hike and then got hooked to it from a article in munsey magazine around 1900. he was supposed to meet hike on coyote creek, but short verison hike couldn't make it. it was there he met john collins( from collins valley fame) and struck up a friendship. later he heard the squaw story, but his verision states that she got lost in the borrego badlands. in 1911 he found out about a old indian trail that went west from the yuma-san bernardino road into the badlands. it's a interesting read but i still think he's too far north though. my belief is that pegleg left yuma and in 2 days arriveed at a place near the new river called salvation camp. according to cave couts it was 50 miles from yuma to the camp. that would mean on flat land one could get 25 miles a day. from salvation he would have headed nw and of course hit the storm. i feel that would slow him down. philip bailey says that he tarveled longer to make up some time. but lets say he went 20-25 miles. the next day he looked on top a low hill to see where he was and in "about a day" made it to the mts ( probably santa rosa's). if he made it to 17 palms and back out 20 or so miles and 20-25 miles ne from salvation that puts him near superstition mt. then if you add "the man who found pegleg gold" clues, low desert, wash and ancient beachline. that would put him somewhere just w or nw of superstition mt. if this is where the peralta gold was as well, then to me this is the place to look....btw some of this is NOT parkland. i would LOVE to go out there with someone in a 4x4 and have a look around. i am WILLING and ABLE to split ALL costs to go.. any takers?

best
PLL

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Already been there. Nothing.

Below, is most of what you will see when there. No mineralization. No black rocks. We hit it with metal detectors, and went all the way from the East end to the West end, on the North side (Naval Bombardment Range). I guess we were in a spot where we weren't supposed to be. That area is owned by the military still and is off limits (OOOPS!). I think the South side of the mountain is accessible to the public.

Unless you have a GOOD 4X4, I wouldn't try getting too close to the mountain either. Soft DEEP blown sand is piled up along the entire NorthEast end. VERY easy to get stuck. We had to run along the side of a tank track, dodging unexploded ordinance. Most of it was practice, but some was real.

If you go out there, be VERY CAREFUL!

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

The source of those nuggets may be far from where we think.

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

I say that because I was rereading an old story about someone who found some of the black nuggets, and one line in the story sends me in another direction.

I'll let you know where it goes.

Just be REALLY careful, if you decide to go to Superstition Mt. There are no facilities, no call boxes, no help, and a LOOOOONG hike out to any buildings, and a ton of ways to get f****d up.

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

I'll let you know where it goes.


Good luck and good hunting to you buddy, hope you find those black gold nuggets! 8)

(If you end up a millionaire, we sure won't tell the IRS in return for a little "gift"! )

Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

thankx for the info gollum-but i don't think it would be that close. i believe that following the carrizo wash north was probably the most likely path. the pic ( goggle1 ) shows a arrow starting at salvation camp and going 25 miles. basically the max miles traveled on day 3. i know this is as the bird flys and that the "real" miles could vary. pix 2 ( goggle 2 ) shows about where pegleg would have started day 4 or the day he found the hills. take a look where this puts pegleg.that would be just past your 2 miles. pix 3 ( goggle3 ) is about where he would have ended and found water. i know i show this past 17 palms, but, remember bailey quotes that they found it "in about a day". but if you look at where he started day 4 and figure that "the man who found peglegs gold" said that he drove his jeep "as far as he could down the wash". then hiked a couple miles the next morning and place that walk near the ancient beachline.it starts to come together. what do you think??

best
PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

here's pic 3

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Well, if you look closely at the map of where your final dot is, you would be right at PegLeg Road in Borrego Springs! Maybe that's what the Arabs call "Kismet!"

Best,

Mike

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

wow that is cool..... thankx

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hey oro,
you could be and probably right as well. this leeds credence to my "3" pegleg theory. on aug. 16, 1953 ther was a la times article from a charles decorse son of albert decorse who says that he hekped nurse one of the peglegs. story goes that a deserter from fort yuuma ( named george ham ) left his post and headed towards pichaco and then the chocalte mts. somewhere in this he found gold and was suffering from the elements. he was taken to san bernardino and was recovering when he " ate too fast " and became ill and died. before he died he left dr decorse some gold and a map and for 50 yrs decorse tried to find the gold but could not. funny thing is decorse has been considered the 1st md in yuma. during the civil war he was on gen grant's staff and in 1868 he came to yuma and was on staff at the az territorial prison twice 1st from 1876-1880 and then 1887-1890. this pegleg supposedly died in 1871 ( as per the times article ). i went to ft yuma and searched the archives for deserters and no george ham. i also checked death records for san bernardino but they start at 1873. i'm still trying to verify this. i found relatives in northern az and some near yuma. i'm writing a letter to them to see if they ahve any info or can verify anything. rumor has it that alberrt decorse kept a gold nugget in his house until a flood washed everything away. anyways i thought you might like the story....

best
PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Greetings Pegleglooker - heck buddy I would be thrilled to see you find it, someone who has "paid his dues" and earned it. Thank you for sharing the info on Decorse too.

I really do think there are probably several similar deposits, with gold lying virtually on top of the ground, left there by erosion over the centuries and then coated with desert varnish, making them "hidden". It is a simple natural geologic process, so there is no reason to think it would not happen in more than one place, and this would help explain why we get such variances (variants?) in the versions of where and how the gold was found. There is a similar story of a cowboy finding black-crusted nuggets in Arizona, north of Yuma; can't remember all the details but he was trying to head some cattle into an adobe corral and started tossing pebbles at the way-ward cows, and noticed how heavy some were so put some in a pocket, learned later that they were gold. Finding that old corral would be a real problem today, the adobe might be completely eroded away - even the cowboy could not find it again. Anyway in the various versions of Pegleg's gold, one tells of three flat topped hills, one tells of two flat topped hills, another version says the three flat topped hills were not in sight, one was almost in sight of a railroad etc - which makes me think they are talking about three separate and different places. Besides, there almost HAS to be more gold out there to be found, and who better to find it than a treasure hunter looking for Pegleg's gold?

Good luck and good hunting to you buddy, hope you find the treasures that you seek - including loads of black-crusted gold nuggets!

Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hey PLL,

I agree with Oro. I hope you find a trunkfull!

Oro,

I think that after looking at the B&W Pic of the Black Gold Bugget, I don't think the coating is as much the red clay magnesium desert varnish, than a reaction of the copper oxides to the atmosphere. I've seen a lot of desert varnished dark rocks (and some black ones). The nugget in the pic looks powder coated. I could be wrong, but it would take a close look at a REAL black gold nugget. I remember someone posting a link to an Ebay Auction of some SUPPOSED black gold nuggets. They were nothing like the one in the pic.

If there are any anonymous folks out there, who would like to remain anonymous, who have some of the few existant black nuggets, please email me. I would like to have a close look at them. Maybe take a scraping of the surface coating for testing. Your anonymity will be guaranteed.

Thanks-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Can be coated with Manganese also. Hint a geochemical kit will save lot's of walking and digging. check for Cu & Mn.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hi Mike!

The Arizona Bureau of Mines had a couple of articles in their monthly newsletter some years ago, on desert varnish - I know I saved the danged articles but have not been able to find them - but they did mention that desert varnish will form on gold. Mitchell wrote that his black nuggets had a very thin crust of the black, that was brittle and would crack off with a hammer - so could not have been so chemically bonded as would occur if it were oxidation of copper in the gold. I would be interested in hearing how your tests and exam goes, if you can get your hands on some black-crusted nuggets.

Come to think of it, that fellow who wrote to Desert magazine described his experiments in removing the black, will have to go re-read that too!

Mike I would be just as pleased to see you find Pegleg's gold - either you or Pegleglooker, or Tropical Tramp, or (if all else fails) ME too! I really would like to see SOMEONE find it, if for no other reason than for those jokers who assemble at the annual Pegleg Liar's contest, to rub their noses in it!

Oroblanco