The True History of John Swift... Written by one who Knows .... 1894.

[KY Hiker]

Plotting the actual traces on a modern map, if possible, will reveal their probable routes. This is why I have put a priority on finding more Indian trail trees in the RRGorge. If we find surviving sections and plot them we can fill in the gaps. Its a process of elimination once the traces have been plotted and journals are re-read carefully. The same US 460 trace takes you from the Sandy all the way to Frankfort on the KY River. Col. Harrods group of settlers followed that same trace from the banks of the KY to where Harrodsburg is today. Obviously they took rafts/boats from Ft. Pitt down the Ohio to the mouth of the KY. But that is the same Buffalo trace (US460). I would bet most of the 'Stations' would be near/along many of these traces. In and around Louisville, remnants of these traces still exist as road names. Indian Trail, Hunters Trace, Watterson Trail, English Station Rd, Tucker Station Rd...I even have a 'Old Stagecoach Road' near where I live and a Ft. Pickens Rd. Looking at maps you may find a Trace Branch, Indian Creek or Station Camp Creek...all would be on or near a trace. I haven't even got into all of the licks and lick creeks.

 

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[Ken S.]

You'll be to busy making maps to hunt for Swift, if you do all that. I'll help ya out a bit. here is you a list to start with Big lick, Salt Lick. Tinkers lick, little lick, Upper and Lower Sand lick, and Don't forget Tic Lick. I'm sure there'll be more to add to this list as time goes on. Those are th ones that come to mind right now. Dang near forgot Mud lick and Little mud Lick. It,s going to take a big note book

 

[KY Hiker]

We don't need a list of licks, just need to see them on a map and see if they fit together and form a trace that can be verified by a trail marker tree or impression in ground for several hundred yards, a shallow fording point on a stream ect. FYI, I'm too busy with life and too far away from E.KY to spend all my free time searching. Someone once said on here you need a hundred hours of research for every hour on the ground. If it were easy, it would have been found already.

Unrelated, but interesting about mound builders of the region.

 

[Ken S.]

In just re reading the article about Swift written by someone who knows, and being familiar with the area of far E. Ky. and given the time of year they were traveling to the mines. I can see where and why . First off let's consider the time of year of their first trips. April/May time frame. Wettest season of the year, rain swollen creeks look like larger rivers. They left Ft. Pitt. to the head water of the Wheeling, to the Little Kanawa, to the Big Kanawa to the Gyandotte ,to the Sandy. These rivers at April/May time of year would look like the Ohio River in summer time. Most any of the creeks East of a line from Prestonsburg, to Salyersville , to West Liberty and to Morehead would look like rivers as well, because of the amount of water that was in them. Longridge I figure was just that a long ridge they traveled there are plenty in the given area, not the Longridge in Ky. southwest of Cinn. today. Some of the journal say they split up at the forks of the Sandy some went west and some went S W to the mines. West would have taken them to the area where the mines at Grayson were found/that Mundy knew of. S W. would have put the others into the area of the head waters of Paintsville Lake. This is just a rambling that keeps running through my mind while reading through some of the journals. From long ridge there starts to be interjection put into the article. Because the article says to a river not known suppose to be bla, bla bla .

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, in VA, the GREAT WESTERN ROAD (Rt, 460 WEST "Today"), went to GREAT LICK (Roanoke, VA); connected to GREAT WAGON ROAD (Rt. 11 SOUTH)... linking up with the WILDERNESS Road, going WEST into E. Kentucky or even MORE SOUTH into SW VA. In Amherst County, VA, Rt. 60 WEST was once known as Buffalo Road, next to Buffalo River & going pass Lexington, VA & "points" WEST. For me, I think that "starting off point" was Fincastle, VA as the "Door to the GREAT WEST", as it WAS Botetourt County, VA to the GREAT Mississippi River. RRG may have been in "OLD" VA at THAT "time"...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ALL of THAT makes RRG a "must have" for the Commonwealth of Virginia, as the BRITS wanted MORE!

 

[Ken S.]

Very True but like Hiker said in another post the days travel by Swift would put them at Salyersville at best. Here is a link back to another older thread that goes along with the days traveled putting them in the area of Paintsville lake.
Found it on page 5 of the older threads.


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...428-yep-another-swift-waybill-part-1-2-a.html

 

[Ken S.]

In the previous post when reading the mentioned article . If you go up Sandy river following the river 70 miles it will put ya right at the mouth of Paint Creek at Paintsville.

 

[KY Hiker]

In just re reading the article about Swift written by someone who knows, and being familiar with the area of far E. Ky. and given the time of year they were traveling to the mines. I can see where and why . First off let's consider the time of year of their first trips. April/May time frame. Wettest season of the year, rain swollen creeks look like larger rivers. They left Ft. Pitt. to the head water of the Wheeling, to the Little Kanawa, to the Big Kanawa to the Gyandotte ,to the Sandy. These rivers at April/May time of year would look like the Ohio River in summer time. Most any of the creeks East of a line from Prestonsburg, to Salyersville , to West Liberty and to Morehead would look like rivers as well, because of the amount of water that was in them. Longridge I figure was just that a long ridge they traveled there are plenty in the given area, not the Longridge in Ky. southwest of Cinn. today. Some of the journal say they split up at the forks of the Sandy some went west and some went S W to the mines. West would have taken them to the area where the mines at Grayson were found/that Mundy knew of. S W. would have put the others into the area of the head waters of Paintsville Lake. This is just a rambling that keeps running through my mind while reading through some of the journals. From long ridge there starts to be interjection put into the article. Because the article says to a river not known suppose to be bla, bla bla .

If Louisa was the point of departure as 'the forks of the Sandy' then West would take them directly towards Sandy Hook. From Sandy Hook to Olive Hill there have been reports of silver for many years. Elliot County in general has always been heavy with silver reports. Longridge is mentioned as a place...interesting to me as it is capitalized, has this been contorted into 'The Great Ridge' over the years like the 'Great Shawnee cave' as others have mentioned? An assumption is made that this is Pine Mt. but the problem is that is in the wrong direction. Southwest would take them towards Paintsville, Salyersville and Campton. Was the B.T. Combs Mt Parkway built over an old trace like US 460 heading in that direction? There was a North South and East West crossroads of traces near Beattyville, South of Campton. That East West trace went East toward Paintsville. I think we can piece some of this together and get probable routes.
How do you think they crossed these streams in Spring if the water was up? I would not assume that it was rainy as today, during the Revolutionary War time we were in a mini ice age with temps below what we would consider normal.

 

[KY Hiker]

Just wondering something here, where was magnetic North during this time? This might have skewed their direction by as much as 15 degrees if a compass was used. Its not huge but it is worth considering along with traces of the time.

 

[Ken S.]

the parkway was n't built that long ago I can remember when it was built early 60's and no I don't think it was built along a buffalo trail. 460 was the main east/west trail from this area. With road construction in the last 50 yrs.460 has changed by miles in some cases. Rt 30 from Salyersville toward would have probably been a secondary trail west from this area I figure. long ridge I figure is much like you said been contorted over the years. As for the pole direction I have no Idea but they say it has been changing over the years, so I figure it has changed some in 250yrs. I figure swift would depend on the stars more than a compass just my opinion. even if he used the stars the tilt of the earth would have had an effect on his direction.

 

[KY Hiker]

When I was a teen and first came to the Red River Gorge it was still a toll road. KY11 runs parallel to much of it, KY15 also, I assumed it was along a natural path through those mountains. Looking at a topo map it seems to follow a natural pass or opening. There as very few 'cuts' until you get further East.

 

[franklin]

The magnetic North was in 1764 about 0 degrees 18 minutes East and changed 0 degrees 8 minutes East for each year there after. In 1769 the magnetic North was 0 degrees 58 minutes East and changing 0 degrees 7 minutes every year there after. This is for Paintsville, Kentucky area. Today, the magnetic North is 6 degrees and 57 minutes West and changing 0 degrees 3 minutes each year in the future. So the magnetic North has moved 7 degrees and 15 minutes further West today, than it was in 1764. So for a distance of 100 miles west of Paintsville, you would have to go 12.7 miles further North of West.

 

[Ken S.]

The magnetic North was in 1764 about 0 degrees 18 minutes East and changed 0 degrees 8 minutes East for each year there after. In 1769 the magnetic North was 0 degrees 58 minutes East and changing 0 degrees 7 minutes every year there after. This is for Paintsville, Kentucky area. Today, the magnetic North is 6 degrees and 57 minutes West and changing 0 degrees 3 minutes each year in the future. So the magnetic North has moved 7 degrees and 15 minutes further West today, than it was in 1764. So for a distance of 100 miles west of Paintsville, you would have to go 12.7 miles further North of West.

In other words Paintsville will soon be where Salyersville should be, or about 18 miles out of place. LOL
Explains why people are feeling lost around here

 

[franklin]

The North pole started moving West in 1866 and it is holding Westward and really getting worst. It use to flip flop from East to West then back West and then back East. But ever since 1866 it has steadily been going West. It has moved about 450 miles to 520 miles further West. It keeps doing that our North and South Poles will flip flop. Need to purchase land in Antarctica it will soon be all dry land and be ready for farming.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The North pole started moving West in 1866 and it is holding Westward and really getting worst. It use to flip flop from East to West then back West and then back East. But ever since 1866 it has steadily been going West. It has moved about 450 miles to 520 miles further West. It keeps doing that our North and South Poles will flip flop. Need to purchase land in Antarctica it will soon be all dry land and be ready for farming.

HA! Time to get into Real Estate... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

 

[Ken S.]

The North pole started moving West in 1866 and it is holding Westward and really getting worst. It use to flip flop from East to West then back West and then back East. But ever since 1866 it has steadily been going West. It has moved about 450 miles to 520 miles further West. It keeps doing that our North and South Poles will flip flop. Need to purchase land in Antarctica it will soon be all dry land and be ready for farming.

I've been hearing the north pole was moving toward Siberia . If that's the case we'll be on the equator growing pineapples in the future. and as for the land in Antarctica wait till after summer . Wife was telling me a few weeks ago there was 3 space ships headed strait toward Antarctica . She was reading it on Facebook. I figure they'll land about July/August.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

SPACE SHIPS!... Time for SDI!

 

[KY Hiker]

The magnetic North was in 1764 about 0 degrees 18 minutes East and changed 0 degrees 8 minutes East for each year there after. In 1769 the magnetic North was 0 degrees 58 minutes East and changing 0 degrees 7 minutes every year there after. This is for Paintsville, Kentucky area. Today, the magnetic North is 6 degrees and 57 minutes West and changing 0 degrees 3 minutes each year in the future. So the magnetic North has moved 7 degrees and 15 minutes further West today, than it was in 1764. So for a distance of 100 miles west of Paintsville, you would have to go 12.7 miles further North of West.

Thanks Franklin, where did you find that information?

 

[KY Hiker]

The North pole started moving West in 1866 and it is holding Westward and really getting worst. It use to flip flop from East to West then back West and then back East. But ever since 1866 it has steadily been going West. It has moved about 450 miles to 520 miles further West. It keeps doing that our North and South Poles will flip flop. Need to purchase land in Antarctica it will soon be all dry land and be ready for farming.

If the poles were to flip/reverse or merge there would be massive Earth changes as far as rotation, mantle and crust would move or 'slip' in different directions causing tidal waves in excess of a thousand feet. Almost every active volcano would erupt, every fault line would sheer...careful what you wish for it would be world wide devastation on a level mankind has not seen in over 10,000 years. It would toss us back to the stone age if anyone could survive.