Anyone swing a detector up here in B.C.?

[Willy]

I know there's just gotta be somebody who's done some nugget hunting in beeyootiful B.C. . I seem to have hunted everywhere but. My main concern is the mineralization here. Debating whether to save my pennies & buy an Infinium or get a larger DD (14"-18") for my MXT. Has anybody done a side by side comparison (PI vs. VLF or even VLF vs. VLF) on B.C. ground? Even if you've hunted w. different machines at different times the comparison would be informative. Thanx..Willy.

 

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[Chris in BC]

Hiya Willy, cant help you a whole lot but I am in a similar situation. I have used an LST and both white's GMT and Spectrum for trying my hand at shooting. No luck at all with any of those machines in hot ground, I have talked with a few guys and done a pile of research and decided to go with a PI unit like the Infinium. Chris

 

[Willy]

Hi Chris. Onre of the reasons I got the MXT was for dealing with nasty ground. Up in Ak. & down in Az. the ground was very much like B.C. The real limiting factor seemed to be the lack of a large DD coil. Really felt it up in Ak. 'cause the other guy was swinging an Infinium. That big DD really punches down deep. I was actually much more impressed by the Garrett than by the SD2200d's that had been used up there. Still, it's $1600 CDN (after taxes) for one of those puppies & a PI would have to exhibit a MAJOR depth advantage to justify that expense. The 14" or 18" coils at Kellyco are abt $300 CDN a pop. I'd love to see a side by side comparison done between a Minelab PI & the MXT (both with a 14" or 18" DD) in 84-86 VDI ground by people experienced with each machine. AND, before the PI boys start spouting off, it's hard data that carries the day, not personal opinion. Another thing that has me thinking is that Pi's are rather limited insofar as they'd suck at following pay/mineralization streaks. Later..Willy.

 

[Fred]

Willy; I'm located between you and Chris. I have a new GMT that I am just trying to get used to. If you talk to Allan at SMI Electronics it might be of a help to you as he is the Whites dealer here and a detectorist himself. His office is in Langley near Canadian Tire. Fred

 

[Willy]

Ya know Fred, I might just do that. I've seen his ad's & visited his website. Couldn't find detecting stuff on the site though. How reasonable did you find his prices? I know that it's best to support local businesses, but my $ are hard won & I compare everything to what I can get it for through the internet. By the way, what happened to Diversified Electronics.. I thouhgt that they were the regional Whites dealer? Willy.

 

[Fred]

I probably could have saved a hundred bucks or so i nothing went wrong with the delivery but I think his prices are fairly reasonable. When you add in the after sales service it seems very competative! Allan is a pretty good guy to know and talk to and so are the other folks in the store.
To tell you the truth I had forgotten about Diversified. I am doing deliveries all over the outer Fraser Valley and had gotten to know of Allan so thats who I turned to when I need help(and I don't regret it). Whites says that SMI is one of the most active and prolific Canadian dealers as well so he must be doing something right,LOL Fred

 

[Willy]

Personally, it's nice to see more detector dealers showing up in this neck of the woods. Get a little competition going. Willy.

 

[johnnyb63]

Willy,

I spent the summer in the Rockies in BC. Just before going up, I purchased a Garrett Scorpion. There is no one newer to the hobby than me. Every where I used the detector seemed to be in extremely hot ground. I used fish bait lead sinkers in my front yard to test and calibrate every time before I went out hunting. I tried various modes of operating the detector and never found anything other than a huge river rock in the middle of a stream bed. I don't see how anyone could detect a faint signal with it up there...everything is loud/strong.

Finally, I gave up on detecting and added a sluice to my panning equipment. Then I followed some locals to their favorite places. Once out with a visiting friend (also hobbiest) we ran up on a black bear before getting to the stream. So, he wasn't too hot for staying long there. One of my friends ran a fishing camp up there this summer and a camper came back one day saying he wanted to stay the entire next summer because he had found enough gold to lure him back. I went back into the bush where he had gone and the rivers were still rushing hard...not easy to pan. So I looked in a feeder stream. I've never seen so much fools gold, but still didn't find anything. I had my wife with me and at the time we were about 30 miles into the bush on logging roads. The drivable roads ended where the logging guys had re-claimed the roads by digging trenches across them. That made further travel in our SUV debatable to my wife so we left before getting to the head of the main river.

I wanted to schedule a whole day going back with a friend who was more prepared to travel into the bush than I had been. It never worked out. The hundreds of forest fires in BC caused the gov to close all back roads, and by that time our summer was over up there. I have dreams of returning, if for nothing more the scenery is gorgeous.

ps...I did pick up small garnets. Lots of them just beside the road. And driving 30 miles into the bush takes a long time...

 

[johnnyb63]

admin...please delete

 

[Lanny in AB]

Fellow BC nugget shooters

Say there fellow BC nugget shooters. As far as BC goes, the ground can be some of the worst in the world as far as extreme mineralization goes. Thus, the reason I went to the Minelab SD machine. (The SD is a pulse machine--fancier than some, but a pulse machine nonetheless.)

Many moons ago, I found a beautiful spot in BC where the bedrock was so hot no VLF's would run on it, but I knew there was good gold there as I watched the Placer miners taking it out with big equipment. Nice nuggets too!

So, I rented an SD 2100 from Kellyco in Florida back in '98 just to see if the SD could really handle extreme ground, and had it shipped to a US border town, and went down and picked it up. Then I drove the 18 hours up to the spot I've mentioned, where that awful bedrock is located, and had myself a field day. We just slew the nuggets in that bad bedrock!! The locals there couldn't believe we were taking nuggets out of that bedrock because they'd tried every brand of VLF made. My buddy was so blown away that he bought one that winter, and he's found some beautiful gold too.

By the way, I've got a Stinger myself, and it has its purpose, but working in extreme ground is just not one of them. The technology in the Stinger has just not kept pace with the demands of extreme ground--it's good in mild to moderate ground, and actually marginal in any moderate ground that gets spicy at all.

I've never used the Infinium, but I'd like to some day. I've got a little Tesoro pulse machine that I've found nuggets with in extreme ground, and it's waterproof to 200 feet, and I use it to test bedrock I've dredged off.

I've got a wonderful 2100 of my own that I've found a slug of nuggets with, and let me tell you, they are just plain hard to beat for working out nuggets in extreme ground. You can get used ones now for around a thousand US, and that's less than a new Infinium, with the favorable exchange rate we're seeing right now. Plus, you've got way more coil options with an SD.

Furthermore, if you've followed any of the discussions on the Australian forums, some of those guys love the 3000, and some of the pros swear that the old 2000, in modded format, is a better machine! So, how much money do you want to spend? Bottom line, I really like the 2100 and it's a nugget finding wonder for extreme ground conditions. Coiltek makes a salt coil that I'm hearing good things about for when you're working in absolutely terrible ground.

So, it all depends on how much you want to spend, but also, how much flexibility you want while you're hunting, and that's important too. The Infinium, I just don't know how sensitive to small gold it is, but the SD with that little Joey coil--man you can really find the small stuff, as well as the nice chunky stuff too!

I went detecting in a spot this summer where there was a raft-full of VLF'ers running around and they were going absolutely crazy because of all the hot rocks. My SD only saw two types of hot rocks, and I could visually ID them after that, but those other nugget hunters, there machines were beeping off every few seconds!! So, in regards to hot rocks, why that's an area I've barely touched, but with a pulse machine you'll have almost no trouble with hot rocks.

Go to the Alaska Gold Forum and look up Steve Hershebach and ask him about the Infinium--he sells them and he's used it to find nuggets, but be forewarned that he doesn't have the extreme ground you've got in BC.

Bottom line, if you can find a good used 2100, it's a hard machine to beat for extreme ground conditions, and the price will be less than what you've quoted above for a new Infinium, unless you can get Steve in Alaska to ship you one, but then again, you're going to be limited in your choice of coils.

Hope this helps, and if it doesn't, ask me some more questions and I'll see if I can clarify things some more for you.

All the best,

Lanny in AB

 

[Willy]

Well, I kinda have a few problems with the Minelab machines. 1) Really crappy design re. environmental factors...good way to lose a lot of money is to nuggethunt with one in a stream (hell, the coils aren't even waterproof). 2) Bad ergonomic design...batteries & bungies hanging all over the place. 3) Poor quality (ref. #2) insofar as the connectors seem to constantly break. 4) What's true & what's hype...up in Alaska's Brooks range (MXT ground phase readings of 54-86, mostly 86) I was finding as many nuggets, of equivalent sizes, at equivalent depths with my old CZ6 w. 10.5" coil as the 2 SD2200d's were getting with either the monoloop or DD coils. Those are just personal observations of 2 PI machines up in that particular area. Nonetheless, it got me athinking.
Why I was thinking about getting the Infinium is that it is well designed both environmentally & ergonomically. For prospecting in & around water it's superior to the Minelab PI's. It's also lighter, better balanced, and exhibits a better battery choice (spend a week, having hiked in 10 miles, in the mountains with the Minelab & no generator to charge the battery). Regardig the coils..how long has Minelab had it's machines out vs. the Infinium? I'm willing to wait a bit (& they're slated to come out with 2 more coils). For now it has the big DD & the 5x10" which would suffice for what the PI's seem to excel at; finding larger nuggets in hot ground. For small stuff, even in bad ground, it still looks like VLF's are preferred. I will admit that there are claims of PI's finding somewhat small gold with small monoloops, but they also talk about sounding off on previously undetectable hotrocks & ground variations...hell, any ol' VLF can do that. One thing about the Garrett though is that their land headphones for the Infinium are cheap garbage.
All this leads me to wonder just how much better (if any)are the PI's vs. modern groundtracking VLF's like the LST, Eureka Gold, MXT/GMT. I too had a Scorpion (my first "gold" machine) & found that, as a nugget hunter, it made for a decent coin machine- traded it for a Gold Bug. Now, with the tech. advances in VLF detectors, how much primacy do the PI's still exhibit? What it comes down to, after quite a few years & many detectors that performed at levels that where less than claimed, is that I wanna buy the bacon & not the sizzle. Later..Willy
BTW.. I also think my MXT and most other gold machines are pretty crummy for hunting near/in water.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Reply to Willy

Well Willy, it seems you may just be quite set against the SD's, so I wouldn't have spent so much time on them in the previous post if I'd known that . . . There are other pulse machines that are completely waterproof if you're interested, not just the Infinium. But, I'll soldier on and try to respond.

"Well, I kinda have a few problems with the Minelab machines. 1) Really crappy design re. environmental factors...good way to lose a lot of money is to nuggethunt with one in a stream (hell, the coils aren't even waterproof). 2) Bad ergonomic design...batteries & bungies hanging all over the place. 3) Poor quality (ref. #2) insofar as the connectors seem to constantly break. 4)"

I've never had any trouble with any of the three machines I've used, with the exception of the rental one having a loose connection right at the box--the three machines have performed flawlessly--but if you've met people that have had all that trouble, they obviously know what they're talking about. I like the design of the SD--the weight is a downside for sure, but with the little backpack that lets the battery rest against your lower back, and with a curly power cord, they are much more comfortable to use. True, no waterproof coils yet, but Coiltek has one they're working on as I type this to you.

Have you done a lot of nugget hunting in running streams? I've given it a shot quite a few times and it's very difficult to chase targets in moving water--I have a pulse machine that's waterproof--and it's close to maddening trying to get the little suckers to stay put so you can ID them.

But, if you've already decided on the Infinium, then you might want to go for it. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but I can't give my opinion on Infiniums as I've only used the Tesoro pulse machine, and the SD's. But I will try to respond to some of the issues you've brought up.

Whenever you observe someone using a machine, factor in how long they've swung the machine, and how much they've found, before deciding on the usefulness of a machine. I know guys that have found hundreds and hundreds of nuggets with VLF's--they are excellent at what they're designed for, but they won't handle extreme ground. I know others, swinging the same machine, that can't even keep it ground balanced, and that haven't found anything except horseshoes and nails. In a like manner, I know guys that have found all kinds of nuggets in terrible ground with SD's, and others that couldn't wait to sell their's off because they couldn't learn to hunt with them.

"Why I was thinking about getting the Infinium is that it is well designed both environmentally & ergonomically. For prospecting in & around water it's superior to the Minelab PI's. It's also lighter, better balanced, and exhibits a better battery choice . . . For now it has the big DD & the 5x10" which would suffice for what the PI's seem to excel at; finding larger nuggets in hot ground. For small stuff, even in bad ground, it still looks like VLF's are preferred. I will admit that there are claims of PI's finding somewhat small gold with small monoloops, but they also talk about sounding off on previously undetectable hotrocks & ground variations...hell, any ol' VLF can do that."

The SD's with the little Joey will find very small gold--I've done it--I was amazed at its sensitivity. But, they aren't near as noisy as a VLF in extreme ground--VLF's won't RUN in the extreme ground I hunted--and the SD's will not sound off on anything close to as many hot rocks as a VLF--ever. So, the small gold issue is more of a moot point now than ever before, as the little coils are made in mono (for less extreme ground) and double D (for the truly nasty stuff). You've got a point, the heavy batteries for the Minelab are a downside, but I always take in several charged spares, which agreeably only adds more weight and work to the expedition. From what I've read, the Infinium is a fine machine, and if you have to pack in over long distances, you might really prefer the lighter weight.

"One thing about the Garrett though is that their land headphones for the Infinium are cheap garbage.
All this leads me to wonder just how much better (if any)are the PI's vs. modern groundtracking VLF's . . ."

Only comment I can make here, is that if they can run, modern VLF's perform admirably, but if the ground's too hot, all the leading-edge ground tracking technology in the world won't help. And, you did have a concern with extreme ground, right?

"Now, with the tech. advances in VLF detectors, how much primacy do the PI's still exhibit? What it comes down to, after quite a few years & many detectors that performed at levels that where less than claimed, is that I wanna buy the bacon & not the sizzle."

PI's and VLF's are different systems--totally. That's why a pulse machine will eat a VLF for breakfast, lunch, and dinner in extreme ground. But that's also why you can find fly speck gold with a VLF in mild to moderate ground. To use the old cliche, you really are comparing apples to oranges, they're both fruits, but man, what a difference. Just keep the two concepts separated, and be comforatble understanding they are designed for different purposes, and they both have exceptional performance in their own areas of supremacy, but neither one can truly take the place of the other.

If you have any other questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them, if not, all the best with your choice, Infinium or whatever it may be.

Lanny in AB
P.S. Seriously, go to The Alaska Gold Forum and get Steve's email or post a question on the prospecting forum and ask him some questions--he loves the Infinium, but has Minelabs and VLF's as well because he maintains that they all have their place.

 

[Hardpan]

pulse vs. VLF

Lanny, you said that you have used the Tesoro pulse machine. Was it the Sand Shark, and how did it perform? Down here in Arizona, I use a White's GMT with good results, but your argument for pulse machines is very convincing. Thanks, Hardpan

 

[Willy]

Hi Lanny. This is my second attempt at an answer. Took me 30 min to type in the first one & Treasurenet ate it. Anyway, I'm not dead set against ML or pro-Garrett, I just don't see the price of a ML machine as being in any way justified. I'm looking at something over 4 grand Cdn for a new ML and there isn't a commensurate increase in quality/features to justify the price. Now, I will admit that a great deal of this problem could be due to exhorbitant duties being levied, just like N. American products in Australia. From what I've read on the forums an Infinium in Australia is more expensive than a ML. Therefor, it's probably not a big seller there.
Regarding the environmental issue, I DO hunt in steams & have had great success doing so. Hence, a detector that's at least water resistant is a definite bonus. That's one thing I really dislike about my MXT is it's terrible design. Whose bright idea was it to put the electronics in a non-water proof box where it will be sitting in the water/dirt? Admittedly, this isn't a solely Whites issue. Most other manufacturers aren't any better. It's as if all cars came without rooff.. great in the desert, but not in the Pacific NW. If ML (or anyone else) were to put their PI gold machine in a waterproof box at the same price as the Garrett, I'd buy it (if I had the money).
Anyway, thanks for responding. I kinda thought that PI would be the way to go here, but I was hoping otherwise. Maybe I'll just sell (or trade) my MXT for an Infinium. Before that, however, I'll pop by Eric Foster's forum and see if there are any viable & cheaper alternatives....Willy

 

[Lanny in AB]

Back to you Willy

Willy,

I wouldn't pay four grand, or five grand for a detector, but there's a great market for used ones right now as others are busy trading up, but the SD's are great machines, and you should be able to locate a good used one if you're interested.

I'm impressed that you've had great success hunting in the water. Is it very shallow and slow moving? Check out Eric Foster's forum, and check out his machines. I believe he makes a nice waterproof model and he's a person that knows tons about pulse machines, plus his pulse machine is more sensitive to smaller gold I believe.

Let me know how you like your Infinium if you get one. I've used the Tesoro Sand Shark to chase gold in the river, and on dry land, and it will find it in both places, but due to its processor, it won't see small gold, but it will run very well in terrible ground.

I spend a whack of time getting the nuggets on dry land, and a good chunk of time dredging. Both are very interesting, challenging, and I always need to learn more.

All the best,

Lanny in AB

 

[Lanny in AB]

Back to Hardpan

Hardpan,

Yes, as you can see from the above post, I've used the Sand Shark, and it's a fine little machine. Easy to tote and great in terrible ground, as well as wonderful at ignoring most hot rocks. Due to the speed of its processor, I believe, it can't take a coil that will make it see smaller gold. The smallest I was able to find with it was about a gram piece. But, I took that piece out of some horrible ground.

I've used it while dredging, and it runs nice and smooth under the water, and the hardwired headphones give good sound in the river as well.

If you want to ask more questions, flip over to my thread, post some questions there, and I'll try to help. Don't want to hijack Willy's thread.

All the best,

Lanny in AB

 

[Willy]

Well, the water was going at a decent clip, but there are ways of getting 'er out. Generally, the water averaged abt. 10" (of liquid ice) and would slow down through the deeper sections. Another thing to consider is that the water is gonna have a hell of a time moving a 1 oz nugget, though, admittedly , most were around the 3-7 dwt range. When I hunted there 2 yrs ago with my CZ6 it was somewhat easier in that, having the control box chest mounted, I could just drop the control rod/search head into the water & use both hands for digging. also, repinpointing was merely a matter of picking it back up & giving it a swing. A lot different this year with the MXT..had to be reeeally carefull. Didn't help that there was this brown slime on the rocks.
As an aside, there was an Infinium up there this year & it really cleaned up shop. Impressed the hell outta me in fact...Willy.

 

[Hardpan]

Thank you to Lanny and Willy, your input on pulse versus VLF machines has been very helpful. Most hunters I know have a Goldstrike, or a GMT, or a Lobo, etc. Due to the cost, I just don't see anyone out in the field here, with a Minelabs, but hey, they're not the only pulse units on the market. The future belongs to other companies that will produce quality pulse machines that the consumer will actually buy, without incurring divorce. Nuff said, Hardpan

 

[Willy]

Kinda funny in a way.. I traded a Goldstrike for the MXT & 2 yrs ago I had an LST. I've found the MXT to be superior in all aspects but 2; weight & the horrible control pod. With both the LST & Goldstrike the control box could be removed for a reduction in weight & protection from the elements. Talk about feather light. One really comes to appreciate this feature when scanning the head-high walls of a cut. After a few days of that with the MXT I felt that I could of changed my name to Arnold (check out the accent:" Your gold , geev it to me..NOWW." That's me..master of a thousand voices)...Willy

 

[Lanny in AB]

Question for Willy

Hey Willy,

Since the forum is all about the exchange of information, how about some pointers on how to detect nuggets in swift flowing water? I know a lot of good gold bearing streams, but I've never really gotten serious about detecting nuggets in the fast water, only while dredging, as targets have always been difficult to nail down in the stream as they always get vibrated down deeper into the gravels by the constant agitation of the water while I'm trying to pinpoint them.

Without revealing your honey hole, are you working close on bedrock? Is that why you're able to pinpoint targets so well? Or are you working in water flowing over gravel bars? You've really got me curious now, as I have a sweet little waterproof pulse machine that will very easily find nuggets the size that you've described, and you can take the box off the shaft and mount in wherever you want so that the only weight while swining is that of the coil and the stem.

So, if you're willing, please be so kind as to shoot a few notes on this thread. I'd really like to learn how you've been so successful, as I can think of tons of places in BC that I'd like to hit as soon as there's a break in the weather.

Thanks in advance,

Lanny in AB