all metal or discriminate??

[vanoldschool]

Hello All, I know everyone says go all metal and dig everything, sometimes i do but most of the time I Discriminate so my Bounty Hunter will only sound off on dimes and quarters, etc, I even get rid of pennies,, because I despise them, what i would like to know is everyones thought on discriminating, or all metal mode, my goal is silver, I only found two silvers in 08 and i would like to get a good jump on 09, thanks and HH

 

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[seger98]

It depends on where I'm at. Beach, park, schoolyard..........I will discriminate.

Out in the woods, I keep it on all metal around logging camps, fur trade areas, and looking for archaic copper.

Chris

 

[Lowbatts]

It depends on where I'm at. Beach, park, schoolyard..........I will discriminate.

Out in the woods, I keep it on all metal around logging camps, fur trade areas, and looking for archaic copper.

Chris

Right on

 

[Tom_in_CA]

vanoldschool, it depends on what they mean by "all metal". To be in "true" all-metal", they have to be in pinpoint mode, where everything sounds the same. The minute you start looking at your meter (so maybe you can reject low nails, etc..), you are not in true all-metal mode. You are merely looking at your meter to discern highs vs lows. Ie.: even though you may be hearing/seeing all targets (and thus think "I'm in all-metal") you are actually using your ears/eyes to discern what you want to dig, and what you will pass. Thus, that's a form of discrimination.

 

[Digger]

I never hunt in true all-metal(no motion) mode. I feel I get better response on a target in motion mode so I just turn my discrimination way down and use the VDI as the discriminator. I hear everything and use the VDI display to discriminate good from bad.

 

[Slingshot]

If you are discriminating copper pennies, then you are loosing alot of depth. I think you might have more success with the silver if you let the pennies through, but just don't dig them. What works for me most the time is to dig all metal in Civil War or earlier sites, post CW to about 1960 sites I kill the iron, 1960 to present I'll kill the beavertails, if it's an all clad site I'll kill the zinc pennies, and dig the coppers and up unless I'm in a hurry, then it's just quarters and up. I'm using a Pioneer 202 right now and always try to use the notch on nickels, that way I'll occaisonally get some gold.

 

[Lowbatts]

On some detectors there is a difference between the discriminate mode and the all metal mode. On my Fisher for example, it has auto tune. This is a way of looking deeper than the discrimante mode, but you have to listen and interpret the deeper signals, some of which may be to deep to get any id info from the target id mode of the machine.

If you have this feature on your machine, the learning curve may frustate you at times. You cannot id some deep faint target but you can hear it in this mode. So it's how you hear the audio information your machine is giving you.

This is best practiced in air with known targets and holding coil well above them. Determine the sweep speed necessary for approximate target identification through the audible output. Get to know it and see how ell it compares to your finds in the field.

 

[luvsdux]

Many detectors have an all metal mode rather than just pinpoint as mentioned a few posts up. On machines so equipped, that is the setting that will give the most depth the machine is capable of, period. Also, on another forum a person posted a picture of a penny that is a key date and worth around $70. So skip pennies if you really hate'em, but you never know. As to masking, whoever suggested running in discriminate and then switching to all metal to handle masking, has it backwards. If you don't want to miss anything, run in all metal which will hit any metal target even if it's a nail laying across or alongside a coin, THEN switch to discriminate to see if it will discriminate out. When running in discriminate, masking can eliminate any signal at all so you don't even know to check. If it doesn't disc. out, dig it. If it does, and it discriminates out at a low setting or you have any question at all, dig it. It might be a rare nickel or small gold item. In really trashy areas, you may not want to do this as it can be pretty ugly if you don't use some discrimination. I generally hunt with just a minimum bit of disc. as I don't want to miss gold items or older nickels. Also, if you are using a TID machine, listen closely to the sound on the different targets. After many hours of hunting you'll be able to hear the little differences in the audible signal to help decide whether or not you should dig. Dig deep, dig often and have fun.
Bill

 

[Michigan Badger]

They answered this in previous posts--it does depend on the hunt site and type of targets.

But here's an added thought---really deep non-ferrous targets can only be found with all metal mode.

If you were to chat with the guys who hunt Civil War relics as a religion, they'll tell you they dig the slightest "tick" or "crackle" they get in all metal mode. Most of these guys use the Nautilus machine with its dual system of discrimination and all metal working simultaneously. The all metal goes a little deeper than the discrimination mode and the all metal at full Nautilus power can just barely see some CW site buttons and coins.

One author friend and well known treasure hunter digs relics at sites thought hunted out and his super valuable CW buttons can be over 16 inches deep. He claims he's dug them in the 20-inch range and I believe him. I know by air tests that the Nautilus is capable of such depths with the right coil and soil.

But the point is, when silver and even gold gets too deep it will sound like iron. If the discrimination mode can reach some of these very deep targets it will register them as trash iron. This is why all metal mode is essential when hunting sites where the finds can be over 10 inches deep. Even the deepest VLF machine made today (which is the Nautilus IIB) will start to call a silver dime iron at 9-10 inches deep.

See, I don't know if you'll bother to read all this but this fact is why some claim there are no good finds past 8 inches deep. These people only hunt by discrimination and pretty much ignore all metal. Therefore they wrongly assume there are no super deep finds to be had. I've written this at least 100 times since I started posting here and others have as well. Sometimes I just give up and go along with the thread but I really do know better.

98% of the members here still don't get it. The deeper an item is the more it sounds like iron. And all VLF detectors go deeper in all-metal mode therefore all-metal mode can reach some deep targets discrimination mode can't see.

Here's a suggestion, if you use a detector that's not really all that deep and you hunt mostly yards and parks--forget all-metal mode.

If you own a deep machine that has true all-metal mode and you hunt the really old sites where you can dig all you want--use all-metal mode and listen for those slightest little signals. This is exactly how those guys dig those rare Civil War CSA Navy buttons when others hunting those same sites never get a beep.

This is why some of us like the Nautilus DMC detectors. We hear both discrimination mode and all-metal mode at the same time. That way any obvious silver down to 10 inches is caught fast and the silver beyond the depth of discrimination mode can be heard with all-metal mode.

And yes, you'll have lots of people tell you discrimination mode is as deep as all-metal but it ain't so.

Badger

 

[Matt (CA)]

vanoldschool, it depends on what they mean by "all metal". To be in "true" all-metal", they have to be in pinpoint mode, where everything sounds the same. The minute you start looking at your meter (so maybe you can reject low nails, etc..), you are not in true all-metal mode. You are merely looking at your meter to discern highs vs lows. Ie.: even though you may be hearing/seeing all targets (and thus think "I'm in all-metal") you are actually using your ears/eyes to discern what you want to dig, and what you will pass. Thus, that's a form of discrimination.

I fail to follow the thinking behind this post. There are a number of detectors that offer a true (non-discriminate) non-motion all metal mode (this does not refer to a "zero discrimination" setting/mode) that are not accessed by using the pinpoint function/control. The true all-metal mode allows the user to hear all signals, and if a target meter is available...it allows the user to see all signals within the depth capability of the target identification. That is called Target ID, not discrimination.

Discrimination occurs when the user elects to eliminate a given target type or conductivity by adjusting the discriminate control. This is normally achieved with the audio discrimination circuit, but in some cases ie some of the White's units, visual (target ID) discrimination can also be employed. What does that mean? For example on the XLT series, one can "accept" visual discrimination. This means the target ID will follow the audio discrimination set-up and not show "discriminated" targets visually either.

The functions of circuitry/software programming ie target ID in conjunction with "true all-metal mode" operate regardless of whether or how the user refers to them or not.

Ie.: even though you may be hearing/seeing all targets (and thus think "I'm in all-metal") you are actually using your ears/eyes to discern what you want to dig, and what you will pass. Thus, that's a form of discrimination.

This last statement leaves me confused. I clearly recall decades ago hunting in the "true all-metal mode" of the old VLF units and using my ears to help me decide whether to dig or not. By the logic employed with the above statement, that "true all-metal mode" was in fact a discriminate mode. I do not understand this line of reasoning. Can anyone please comment or clarify?

 

[luvsdux]

Right on Badger! Only thing I might add to what you've posted is it's definitely a plus if your machine has the audible threshold in all metal which helps one hear the slightest bump in the signal. Even machines with moderate depth will pick up and inch or more of depth when running in all metal.
HH
BB

 

[Bridge End Farm]

I run mostly all metal too

Once I get a target hit I work on figuring it out (discriminate) before I dig.

Many times I thought something was something else before I dug it, only to be happy I did dig and fetch it.

They might suck digging them but if your screening out nickels and tabs you are missing rings

 

[Michigan Badger]

Right on Badger! Only thing I might add to what you've posted is it's definitely a plus if your machine has the audible threshold in all metal which helps one hear the slightest bump in the signal. Even machines with moderate depth will pick up and inch or more of depth when running in all metal.
HH
BB

Yes--good point.

Personally I avoid those detectors with no threshold.

Lots of people are only finding the surface stuff which is great for the rest of us

 

[Michigan Badger]

Many times I thought something was something else before I dug it, only to be happy I did dig and fetch it.

Good post.

When I hunt some of my old French trader sites where finds date to early 1700's---almost nothing sounds like what it really is.

 

[Lowbatts]

Great notes Badger!
When tuning my CZ in autotune, I have no problem cranking it to full power, something you can't do in discriminate mode. Just too many targets giving averaged signals. When that hum is plainly audible it does find the tiniest items and the deepest items, but there are many who simply don't use machines with those options. Yes, some of the best deep targets were located because I closed my eyes and let my ears see the picture the machine was painting.

Never heard anything but miraculous reviews of the Naut, but I'm still in dirty ground for the most part so the CZ does it well enough for me.

 

[luvsdux]

As long as we're on a good roll here, I'd like to add another point. One of the best things for me when I use a TID machine is comng from a lot of detecting with beep and dig models. Example - one day this fall I was detecting near some swings at a park, using little disc. with a TID machine. Got a shallow iffy hit on the id, but the sound was somewhat strange so I went ahead and retrieved the target. Turned out to be a very small scotty dog charm from a charm bracelet. However, when looking at it under a magnifier, it turned out to be marked 925 silver. If I'd gone by the ID alone, I'd probably have missed it as it was a fairly trashy area, and easy to think just another piece of trash. Point being the final, most positive discrimination is your eyes, but learn and heed the sounds your detector makes whether it has a display or not.
HH
Bill

 

[Michigan Badger]

Great notes Badger!
When tuning my CZ in autotune, I have no problem cranking it to full power, something you can't do in discriminate mode. Just too many targets giving averaged signals. When that hum is plainly audible it does find the tiniest items and the deepest items, but there are many who simply don't use machines with those options. Yes, some of the best deep targets were located because I closed my eyes and let my ears see the picture the machine was painting.

Never heard anything but miraculous reviews of the Naut, but I'm still in dirty ground for the most part so the CZ does it well enough for me.

The CZ series isn't mentioned too much anymore because too many guys are still jealous of it's performance.

I know many professional hunters who won't use anything else.

 

[Gator01]

I hunt older home sites mainly. I use a Whites XL Pro. It has a discrimnate mode and all metal. I hunt in all metal mode on these sites. But with a flip of a trigger I can be in disc mode to further investigate a target plus it has a very accurate meter as another means of investigating a target. I use all this target info when I hunt, but many times just because of the sound from the all metal mode I dig. Sometimes it is just a beep or rise in my threshold that is repeatable,sometimes its a rusted square nail or other piece of small iron,sometimes like just the other day, a coin. I checked it in disc mode and didnt even get a signal. But I have to say, my meter bounced over into the dime range from one direction of swing, so I dug and found a 42 Merc dime.
I have to say also with the XL Pro, I hunt in all metal because of seperation speed. It is faster in all metal than disc because of the filters. But still, I like hunting in all metal at these sites.
I have a M6. It doesnt have the all metal mode and doesnt have a threshold. I use it for my tot lot hunting and some park hunting, mainly because it is a fast responder. But never have gained the confidence in it, like I have with the Pro. And, I think that is a very important thing, confidence and knowing your machine. Oh, I have found all the clad I care to with the M6.
Lately, Ive been thinking about a Tejon or Musky. But I have to admit, my crutch is that meter on the Pro.
Like I said, I think your confidence and familiarity with your equipment is important and I also am a firm beliver in different equipment for different types of hunting is important plus correct equipment matched to the envoronment/ground.
I havent used a lot of types/brands of detectors, what I have used, has been productive for what I mainly like to hunt,old home type sites where abundance of iron is burried and not much or any modern type trash, like tinfoil,pull tabs etc.
I dont post much here but reap the benefits from the more experienced MDers such as MichiganBadger and others and where and how they hunt doesnt match what or how I hunt always but they give accurate discriptions of the equipment they have used and how they used it.
I have to watch what some say as it seems they are biased toward on brand of detector and its not because they are actually biased but its because of whats worked for them in their hunt style and location, for example, I am using the Whites machine,it works for me, but thats not saying another one want work,I havent tried them all but am satisfied with what I have for now.
Good luck,
John

 

[gleaner1]

Good points by all. Probably all-metal is not the way to go if you are just learning a new machine or if you are new to the hobby. After a) you really get to know your machine, and b) really get to know your site or sites, all metal is the only way to go for getting the absolute deepest targets possible with your machine. You can just barely hear the deepest signals in all metal mode. Chances are you would pass over these deep signals in scrim mode.

When I get a good deep hit in all-metal, I'll usually just dig it. If I try to scrim it, it may disappear or may hint at iron a bit. But like many have said, really deep targets tend to sound like iron in scrim mode. The real key is that there is something in the ground and its DEEP. Even if half the time its a nail, I like to dig it. There is a high probability the target is a deep goody and we know the only real way to be sure is to dig. Its 95% probably not pull tab or foil, too deep for that. I think that if you are pulling deep old square nails, you are doing something right. CZ users know what I mean and I'm sure other machines are similar. You must know your machine to really take advantage of all metal mode.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

You must know your machine to really take advantage of all.

yeah a knowledgeable operator can make his/her machine sing to them. There is more than just swinging and going to get the most out of your machine.

Like anything pratice makes you better at anything