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Thread: St.Augustine Florida bans metal detectors

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  1. #16

    Mar 2012
    CT
    DFX 300
    72
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I am new here and expanding my hobby. I was going to St Aug. in May to my sisters in Palencia and was hoping to try the beaches. This might change my plans. Thanks for info.

  2. #17
    us
    Dec 2008
    St. Augustine, FL
    3,365
    774 times
    Quote Originally Posted by LostinBolton View Post
    I am new here and expanding my hobby. I was going to St Aug. in May to my sisters in Palencia and was hoping to try the beaches. This might change my plans. Thanks for info.
    The beaches are fine. Being that you will be based out of Palencia, then I would suggest pounding the sand at Mickler's Landing. Villano would be my second choice, if I were you.

  3. #18
    us
    NJ

    Nov 2006
    Middlesex County, New Jersey
    Whites DFX w/ Sunray DX-1 probe and Minelab Excalibur 1000, Whites TRX Pinpointer
    3,246
    103 times
    Metal Detecting
    I've never detected in St. Augustine but it is a wonderful little city to visit. The Spanish fort makes a trip there well worth it. As Treasure Hunter stated with the history I can understand having some restrictions and/or control measures.

    I was one of the people that felt these shows would hurt our hobby but just found out there maybe a positive come about from them that could bring the Archaeological and Detecting communities closer. More to follow in the next month or two. Keep your fingers crossed.

    NJ

  4. #19
    us
    relic hunter

    Dec 2011
    Cape Cod
    tesoro stingray
    468
    80 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted One View Post
    The link I posted above suggest that the beach is included in the city limits. This link has been updated to explain there is a St. Augustine, Florida, and a St. Augustine beach, Florida.

    So sounds like the beach is not included in the ordinance, they talked to someone official over there that assured the beaches are still open.
    Has anyone ever been able to talk with Indiana Jones? Where is he at?

  5. #20
    us
    Dec 2008
    St. Augustine, FL
    3,365
    774 times
    Quote Originally Posted by boris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted One View Post
    The link I posted above suggest that the beach is included in the city limits. This link has been updated to explain there is a St. Augustine, Florida, and a St. Augustine beach, Florida.

    So sounds like the beach is not included in the ordinance, they talked to someone official over there that assured the beaches are still open.
    Has anyone ever been able to talk with Indiana Jones? Where is he at?
    I'm not sure of what Indiana Jones has to do with the context of the quoted reply? There is no question about St. Augustine and St. Augustine Beach being two separate towns/cities.

  6. #21
    us
    May 2008
    Wisconsin
    GARRETT GTI 2500, Garrett Infinium
    2,945
    585 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by N.J.THer View Post
    They did not actually ban it...they just require a permit to do it on public land. Depending on if there is a fee and what the actual requirements are I don't have a problem with this.NJ
    I can guarantee you will never get a permit to metal detect in St Augustine. Google around a bit on it.

    The Archies panic when they see shows like American Diggers or see stuff on eBay. They really think that history is their own professional property. Trouble is, they only expose a tiny miniscule amount of history, and many more times that is lost to destruction and natural degradation.

    They insinuate themselves onto the public payroll, and then start the bureaucratic machine going to keep themselves there and to limit the taxpayers rights.

    I'm not against archaeology, but I do think that there should be some perspective on the limits to personal freedoms like MDing. I mean, do they really have to dig every privy, or can we dig a lot of them? How about every coin or rusty nail or pop tab?

    And remember, they're doing this on your tax dollar.
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  7. #22
    us
    relic hunter

    Dec 2011
    Cape Cod
    tesoro stingray
    468
    80 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Has anyone talked to Indiana Jones? How do you find them?

  8. #23
    us
    relic hunter

    Dec 2011
    Cape Cod
    tesoro stingray
    468
    80 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Has anyone talked to Indiana Jones? How do you find them?

  9. #24

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,310
    1940 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    Regarding the link to St. Augustine's restrictions. The implied desired result of posting this, is that we ..... therefore ... . must grovel, seek permits, ask for clarification, etc.... But this has got it all backwards! The posting of the link fails to ask the key question: "How did something like that, get started, TO BEGIN WITH??" Answer: by people going in and asking for permission, clarification, and permits! Doh! Don't you see the catch 22?? The vicious circle?

    Presto, more laws, rules, and clarifications to "address the pressing questions". Sure, it ENDS UP at the desk of city managers and archies. And sure they cite cultural resources, holes, etc.... as their reasoning, but it fails to ask how it got on their radar to begin with. I HIGHLY doubt that the reason for such a law is the recent reality show. Nor do I think that many people are watching it. It's only US who *assumes* that lots of people are. But stop and think about this: why did YOU tune into the show? Because you're into metal detecting, right? But the average person not into stuff like this, keeps fllipping the channels. In the same exact way that perhaps you didn't watch the Kardashians last night, or the home shopping channel, or a televangelist, etc....
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  10. #25
    us
    Dec 2008
    St. Augustine, FL
    3,365
    774 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Regarding the link to St. Augustine's restrictions. The implied desired result of posting this, is that we ..... therefore ... . must grovel, seek permits, ask for clarification, etc.... But this has got it all backwards! The posting of the link fails to ask the key question: "How did something like that, get started, TO BEGIN WITH??" Answer: by people going in and asking for permission, clarification, and permits! Doh! Don't you see the catch 22?? The vicious circle?

    Presto, more laws, rules, and clarifications to "address the pressing questions". Sure, it ENDS UP at the desk of city managers and archies. And sure they cite cultural resources, holes, etc.... as their reasoning, but it fails to ask how it got on their radar to begin with. I HIGHLY doubt that the reason for such a law is the recent reality show. Nor do I think that many people are watching it. It's only US who *assumes* that lots of people are. But stop and think about this: why did YOU tune into the show? Because you're into metal detecting, right? But the average person not into stuff like this, keeps fllipping the channels. In the same exact way that perhaps you didn't watch the Kardashians last night, or the home shopping channel, or a televangelist, etc....
    Tom, let me clarify the situation. The ordinance has indeed been influenced by the shows and the recent publicity towards metal detecting. The shows producer had a back and forth with Carl that was quite contentious. The show had published in the local paper flouting their finds of "Spanish Gold". Carl had countered that it was planted and most likely fake. The other detectorist that I mentioned had the audacity to claim that they had dug Spanish crossbows and the like in the local paper. These singular events stirred Carl into a frenzy. As a local resident, Carl owns this town. He's been the City Archaeologist for over 30+ years. If he recommends something, then the city council just rubber stamps it.

  11. #26

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,310
    1940 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    ok, well if this one show, had a direct traceable relation to a rule, and if the rule is truly proposed or existent, the sure, solidarity fights that. But in no way or sense should the facts of THAT situation inspire others elsewhere, to go grovelling, asking, thinking they need to pre-empt, etc.... Because that is the very reaction, lots of times, when skittish people read these posts

    If what you're saying is true (and I don't dispute your facts), then it becomes a case like the recent FL bill thing: by all means fight that. But please don't let this be a "sky is falling" that cause md'rs elsewhere, where no such thing has occured, to run and seek clarifications "just to be safe", lest they merely get a "self-fulfilling prophecy" come to them
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  12. #27
    Charter Member
    us
    Underwater Heritage Rescue Diver

    Jul 2006
    Tampa, FL
    AquaPulse AQ1B - AquaPulse DX-200 Magnetometer
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    Tom, give the people a little credit. Not everyone is skiddish and goes running to their park ranger or State Archaeologist when they read about a rule like this. In fact, most of us are pretty intelligent, and we go running to our senators and get crap like this taken off the books, just like we did with State Bill 868. At first you claimed we were just over-reacting to that as well...then you later changed your tune and supported the cause. Nobody is claiming the sky is falling, but there are new laws falling everywhere and if we don't wake up and pay attention then bad things are going to happen to our hobby. I don't understand your motives when you try to downplay the severity of the new legislation they are throwing at us.

  13. #28
    us
    Apr 2011
    Redding, CA
    MXT Pro
    480
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom you are making assumptions. The idea that a law came into being because of metal detectorist asking permission is pretty insubstantial. You act as though the Archaeologist have nothing to do with it, The old woman in the park that saw you digging and has nothing better to do than report it, the park ranger that doesn't quite interpret the law the same as you do, the historical society, the preservationist, the bird watcher that are tired of you scaring off the birds when you beat through the bushes with your metal detector. There are a lot of people out there that have reason to complain about the hobby, the fact that most of their reasons only right to them means nothing if they get the ear of an official.
    Sure if a bunch of detectorist started asking questions, then the city might get the idea to ban it, but as you said, there really is not that many of us in one geographical area, so it's not like you get dozens of people asking the same city for permission. In any given city you might get a small handful at best. Not enough to bring up the concerns you seem to think we do.
    Last edited by Twisted One; Mar 29, 2012 at 01:40 PM.

  14. #29

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,310
    1940 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    scuba finder, you say:

    " Not everyone is skiddish and goes running to their park ranger or State Archaeologist when they read about a rule like this"

    if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't be of this opinion. But I have seen it first hand: md'rs without a care in the world (un-aware that stuff like this even exists). But lo & behold they get on the internet (or .... in the 1980s, picked up an issue of the FMDAC periodical), and then...... yup you guessed it: their eyes get as big as silver dollars, and ..... in order to "do the right thing", they feel they must "check in" or "confirm" wherever they arrive at, "because afterall, there might be a law", and .... "oh no.... I wouldn't want the trouble to happen to me that I just read about on T'net or whatever."

    And btw, the FL 868 bill thing is a different scenario: it was something truly there, truly pending, already slated, etc.... So, sure, in those cases, fight them. I'm only saying don't think all this means we need to pre-empt things where there in no such things there, nor imminent, lest you merely GET them to be.

    Twisted one, you say:

    "The idea that a law came into being because of metal detectorist asking permission is pretty insubstantial. "

    How many examples will I need to give you of this being "substantial", before you admit that this is an incorrect statement? Just let me know and I'll start rattling them off!

    Oh, and I must let you know: 99% of the time, when you ask some city (that has an actual rule or law or something) "why is this?", they will OF COURSE tell you "cultural heritage" or "holes" or something like that, right? I mean, never are they going to say "because of people coming in here and asking". No, of course not. They'll always allude to "holes" or "digging" or whatever, EVEN IF THEY NEVER EVEN SAW SOMEONE DIGGING A HOLE. Why? Because that's the natural connotation on their mind when you ask them "why?". So the fact that "because people asked" is not the answer given, does not mean that's not how it started. It is, quite often. And if you doubt me, I'll start rattling off multiple examples.
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Mar 29, 2012 at 02:31 PM.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  15. #30
    us
    Apr 2011
    Redding, CA
    MXT Pro
    480
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    You can state expamples until you are blue in the face Tom, and I won't disagree that it happens. I will disagree that it is threat we should be concerned with. The real threat is not from the hobbyist, it's from the Archaeologist, the historical society, and the preservationist. You know those people that feel they have the right to recover history, and we don't. You look at all of the major laws and the way they are written, they were written with the archaeologist in mind, and if not by an archaeologist, I assure you one was near by.

 

 
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