Inceridle find

[Crowfriend]

Incredible find

Once in a lifetime. It's still there. Would you take it?

 

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[BigWaveDave]

Ok... I tapped out on this thread, probably because either I had an unfavorable view of the circumstances, or because Native American swag isn't my thing, never has been....but something else is bothering me.
It's been suggested that this could be a jpeg stock photo, as well as a beautiful picture...Hmmm....
So, it seems to me that this picture isn't the only one, couldn't be. Nobody takes one picture, and it comes out looking like a Nat Geo pic...show me other pics, other angles, pics that weren't up to snuff to start this thread with.
I know I am walking a fine line here, just suggesting other pics so that we can see and appreciate this for what it is....

 

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[T.C.]

Ok... I tapped out on this thread, probably because either I had an unfavorable view of the circumstances, or because Native American swag isn't my thing, never has been....but something else is bothering me.
It's been suggested that this could be a jpeg stock photo, as well as a beautiful picture...Hmmm....
So, it seems to me that this picture isn't the only one, couldn't be. Nobody takes one picture, and it comes out looking like a Nat Geo pic...show me other pics, other angles, pics that weren't up to snuff to start this thread with.
I know I am walking a fine line here, just suggesting other pics so that we can see and appreciate this for what it is....

I agree with you Dave, let's see more pictures. I know I would have taken lots more pics. The picture seems....just too perfect!!

 

[Deft Tones]

I'd smash it open and peek inside. Could be gold inside!

 

[Mrdigz]

I'd smash it open and peek inside. Could be gold inside!

Haha, that's funny. Hopefully they don't take ur advice lol.

 

[Crowfriend]

Thank you woodsman1981 for the wonderful reply. I greatly appreciate your sentiments.

 

[Crowfriend]

Setting aside the ethics and legalities, I have to say that the photograph itself is quite striking and beautiful.

On a certain level I'd be tempted to leave it as-is just to preserve the setting that it has sat in for a thousand years. In a way, to remove it and clean it up would reduce it from something slightly magical to an ordinary object. Regardless of what happens to it, you've captured the moment with some excellent photography.

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Crowfriend]

I agree with you Dave, let's see more pictures. I know I would have taken lots more pics. The picture seems....just too perfect!!

It is a perfect little picture.

 

[Crowfriend]

Ok... I tapped out on this thread, probably because either I had an unfavorable view of the circumstances, or because Native American swag isn't my thing, never has been....but something else is bothering me.
It's been suggested that this could be a jpeg stock photo, as well as a beautiful picture...Hmmm....
So, it seems to me that this picture isn't the only one, couldn't be. Nobody takes one picture, and it comes out looking like a Nat Geo pic...show me other pics, other angles, pics that weren't up to snuff to start this thread with.
I know I am walking a fine line here, just suggesting other pics so that we can see and appreciate this for what it is....

Not a stock photo.

 

[Crowfriend]

It doesn't happen often, but every once in a while, a thread sure feels like a set-up to me.

In what way?

 

[Crowfriend]

I am glad you found it. Some pieces are meant to be found by someone educated enough to learn from it. You would make a fine host, Your intentions seem solid, your karma should be fine. Thank you for sharing a photo of it. Some university would not post it on here for anyone interested. I hope you can find more information to share about this piece

I have been through several incredibly bad experiences that has left me wondering what sort of karma has been invoked. Thank you

 

[Crowfriend]

when you read some of these posts it seems a few people hold the mistaken view that "Native American" culture was some sort of continent wide experience. Nothing could be further than the truth, customs, beliefs, languages etc were as varied as any place in the world. The photo appears to be a "stock" jpeg, and yes perhaps the poster lived with a "Crow" for 4 years but that pot wasn't found within a thousand miles of Crow country. Knowing a few Crow anecdotes pretty much does not make anyone qualified to speak about "juju" or other such nonsense.

The crow I lived with had feathers, sorry for the confusion. Interestingly, keeping a crow is illegal in Arizona. The question of "Juju" comes from death of loved ones, makes a person wonder about such things.

 

[Triumph]

I'm confused about the reverence of tools, points, pottery ect. It's not like most of us are grave diggers we are not digging burial mounds.

I would be proud when I'm dead and gone that my tools, things that I have made would be admired by someone in the future.

Certainly many private collections have given many of us admiration of the Indian culture and remarkable ingenuity and perseverance it took to survive and thrive in difficult times. If you could help me understand why collecting tools of the culture is disrespectful to the native Americans I would appreciate it. To me they are not spiritual they are just tools or things of little importance to the individual that made them. This is apparent to me when I find what I would call trash pits broken pottery, Broken points bones ect.
When I find something I often think these are beautiful items and the creator of them would be pleased that I am admiring their work.
Of course I would never sell anything I find, I do not do it for the money, obviously some do but that is not my interest and never will be.

The felony for finding these items seams really harsh to me but maybe it's because I don't understand from the native Americans viewpoint.

Thank you for a very thought provoking post!

Buy the way I would have taken it and showed it to many people as possible and been in AWE of the individual that created it!
Only if it was on my property.

 

[sandchip]

...at the very least it would be well taken care of in a museum

Please folks, don't believe that just because it's in a museum that it's taken care of. There are world class artifacts in some museums in abysmal storage conditions where pottery in particular is actually deteriorating. Many times, collectors tend to take better care of their artifacts than some museums. And I said "some", not all. Another thing to consider is that many museums have so much material that they don't have the space to properly display donated items, or as is the case with museums funded by or subsidized with tax dollars, the really good stuff is kept in storage and can be viewed only by a privileged few (not us commoners, for sure).

Also, burial associations aside, that have deep spiritual attachment to the descendants whether native American, or any other ethnic or racial group and should indeed be left the hell alone, how are everyday utilitarian items made by Native Americans any different from a Crawford County jug or a piece of CorningWare?

 

[jamus peek]

Super cool find dude. Thanks for sharing It should be saved one way or another.

 

[crj1968]

Pilfer shmilfer.
Laws passed under the guise of hoodwinkery, and broken promises. If they cared they'd give the land back ta boot.

Totally agree. The "laws" are nothing more than cheap lip service to Native Americans (of which is in my heritage.)
"Hey our ancestors took everything from you, and that sucks, so, by golly if we see an artifact on OUR land we won't touch it. Are we good?"

Case in point; new housing development in my area.. A a study was done with a conclusion that the area is an ancient burial ground. (obsidian knives, rock shelter, stone patterns....)
The outcome? Pffftt... level the place and build, these are million dollar homes we are talking about here.

I am a realist and know that all civilizations build over the previous. But as Brian55 said this is all just hoodwinkery and bs propaganda meant to somehow appease the Native Americans. Save the history !

If anything the law should be any artifacts on public land can be collected and given to the nearest reservation Indians for them to enjoy. Two cents.

 

[BagLady]

Originally you said it was an Apache pot(?). I think the Crow thing just came from your user ID.
And as you said, it was a utilitarian piece. Not ceremonial.
If it were me, I would find the nearest Apache reservation, ask to speak to the Chief, or counsel, and tell them about it.
Let it be their decision. It is part of their history.
(Then, of course, I would expect to be "adopted" into the Apache tribe...)

 

[GatorBoy]

Wow! that is an incredible find. If I found such a find I would surely keep it from nature and it's basic destructive deterioration. My wife grew up next to the Crow reservation and believes that if there is any association with a human burial it should be left alone. But if it was left there as a stash for storing food, there would be no harm in keeping it. I certainly do not believe in such ''joojoo'', Things in this life happen with or without our influence.

Exactly

 

[RockinIdaho]

https://fineart.ha.com/itm/american...70082.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515cneck this photo out! it has a similar design

 

[dump_digger]

If I found that it would so be in my house right now. It's a beautiful pot. What makes you think it's "re-purposed Apache?" Considering the color, design, and that you said it was found in Arizona, I would guess it to be Hopi.