I call it the “Palasso”.

[filmiracl]

And it's fluted no less. Nice find.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Flip N. Rocks]

Thank you filmiracl!

 

[arrow86]

And it's fluted no less. Nice find.

Where is it fluted ? I think it’s definitely a material they used and took pieces off of but as far as an effigy I’m not seeing it , you probably have points made from this same material that show amazing flaking and craftsmanship why wouldn’t they have used those same skills when making an effigy ??

 

[jmaschal]

To Charl’s point entitled to your opinion but you missed the message in the post. That’s not an effigy not close, not even a little. Might have been material picked at but no artifact. A lot of archeology is based on precedence and I am confident u will not find any. Sorry to burst your bubble but that is just a rock - cool material but that’s it.

 

[filmiracl]

Where is it fluted ? I think it’s definitely a material they used and took pieces off of but as far as an effigy I’m not seeing it , you probably have points made from this same material that show amazing flaking and craftsmanship why wouldn’t they have used those same skills when making an effigy ??

I'm kidding... The original poster noted there are some flutes on the back. Why would anyone seriously entertain the thought that this piece is anything?

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

Take a walk filmarcl! This is a serious thread.

Some members have pointed out this comes up often to which the most experienced of you tend to shun. Fine. If you can’t look at the original picture and see it resembles a mans head then your not looking at it as a whole. I understand by nature that we humans reflect imagery in objects so therefore it’s just relative to our brains. IMO native Indians would have displayed this same phenomenon, maybe even more so. It’s perfectly human to do so. Unless of coarse you’re too experienced to know better. Fact is, you really don’t know how an ancient people would have viewed this specimen of rock. To my eyes and to many who have seen it, immediately see a mans head. IMO of coarse.

 

[jmaschal]

Again it sounds like you are making yourself the expert on this and justifying why you think it is an effigy. That’s fine - I suggest taking it to a local college. Native American work doesn’t need be questioned with doubt or interpretation they were skilled craftsmen. A true effigy or carving will be obvious and you will not have to flip it around or have a certain angle or black light or the sun positioned west or whatever. Again believe what you want but stating this piece is an effigy or art or whatever to others just isn’t fair to someone that wants to learn.

 

[jmaschal]

This is a carving of a human effigy fellow member brettCo found...

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

I don't recall ever mentioning this rock was made by a skilled craftsmen. My thoughts are it was slightly touched to enhance the image or effigy of a mans head. Yes effigy, by definition is a sculpture or image of a person. That is certainly the case here, craftmens touch or not. many posters have agreed that it was probably touched and discarded or whatever. I don't think it was discarded. I found this piece in an old Indian camp where I have found ancient fire pits , cooking rocks, scrapers, arrowheads, scribes, hammer stones, blades and tons of flakes. Context has a lot to do with it, right? I'm no expert, I just see an effigy of a mans head and thought it was interesting. Don't be so offended. The piece resembles a mans head, more so than the piece your showing above. IMO.

 

[jmaschal]

Not offended agree it’s not an effigy an resembles a man of look close enough it’s a cool rock that was probably fractured in attempt to manufacture. The above piece is the bowl portion of a pipe - it’s the real deal I was on site when Brett found it.

 

[jmaschal]

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

Anyone following this thread I suggest you look up the word, " Ahlashiwe " meaning stone ancients. The Indians practiced fetishism. an ancient people with this belief would have revered the rock I posted a picture of. They might have embellished the rock slightly or not at all as to not upset the spirit within the rock. Now to me, that is not ahlshwie but a docarative part of a pipe. A beautiful one at that. Thanks for reposting

The earliest fetishes are called Ahlashiwe or stone ancients by the Zunis. They were naturally formed stones that seemed to resemble people or animals, sometimes made more realistic with the features accentuated by a carver.

 

[jmaschal]

I looked it up I was not familiar but still nothing that resembles your rock. I challenge u to find anything in your state that is deemed an artifact that resembles what you are showing. I am sure there are plenty of publications from archeologists that are more qualified than me or you. Your above post does nothing to strengthen your argument. All of the images under ahlashiwe are well crafted and from south western tribes.

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

I never looked at images. I'm sure most are modern trinkets. This stone is one of a kind so it's really not worth my time to find something similar. My original post only stated that this was interesting, it looked like a mans head, and was enhanced by human hands. All of which are obvious in the first picture.

I suggest reading about the religion and how the ancient native Americans revered natural stones that resembled animals and people. Read how their belief of possessing such stones gave them power and influence among the people. It was only later in time( later than alashawie) that these objects were intricately crafted. In some cases alashawei was handed down through the family were each generation made their own mark on the piece. The info is out there, some pretty old stuff too. I find it fascinating and informative.

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

“The superstitions of the Indians extended to remarkable objects in nature. A tree or stone of singular form seldom failed to command their reverence. A stone which, from the action of natural causes, has assumed the general form of a man or an animal, is especially an object of regard …”.
E.G. Squier, Antiquities of the State of New York, Smithsonian Contributions to Knowledge, Vol. II, 1851

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that palasso man was a relic. Thanks everyone for the interesting banter. Except filmiracl, that guys a trouble maker.:laughing 7:

 

[AlabamaRelic]

Okay

 

[Tnmountains]

I am sorry for not seeing this sooner. It belongs in the Geo-fact section as it is a natural stone. What is happening to you is called Pareidolia. It makes for a fun conversation piece at home.

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

pare what?? I had to look that up. I’ve already acknowledged that in my own way. My point is if I could experience that phenomenon the Indians could have too. Did you read any of my posts? Thanks for your reply Tn.

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

Did you really have to move this thread? Ridiculous!

 

[Flip N. Rocks]

There are at least two other threads on the first page of North American artifacts that could be moved, including the weird markings thread recently started. Whatever it’s your board. Burn any books lately Tn?