Copper Artifact from California *Updated*

[DrJoePrime]

It was down about 8 inches deep in a huge lawn. This place is close to wetlands and an area used for the 1932 Olympics rowing competition (Long Beach, California).

I brought it home and began cleaning it with a stainless steel brush...BUT I stopped and gasped when I saw it had a design on the front. Hopefully I didn't do any real harm ...it was very corroded and I only removed the corrosion. I've stopped the cleaning.

My first thought was that it's a decorative item from the 1932 Olympics ... but the decoration looks to be hand made and my second thought is that it's a Native American artifact.

Now I actually do have quite a bit of knowledge of Mesoamerican artifacts but have never encountered a copper item. A Google search shows some Amerindian copper artifacts but mostly resembling animals.

ANY HELP or opinions are very gladly received.

This first photo shows the cleaned part in my hand.

Next is the closeup of the Design.

And in the final photo I've outlined (roughly) the design in my photo program.



Thanks for looking and HH, Joe

Update as of 10 July 2008,

I've sent photos to the chairman of Anthropology Department specializing in local Indian cultures and he could not identify as anything local. He said he's pass the photos I e-mailed him around to other specialties. To date I haven't received any replies. The apparent rust is actually only from contact in the soil with rusty object. The reverse side is slightly concave and fits very well with my thumb while holding it.

My speculation is that:

o the item is at least folk art and not manufactured

o It may relate to the 1932 Olympics and rowing somehow

o The "checkmark" LOGO seems unique and I'd like to I.D. that ... any ideas how?

o It appears to be more decorative than utilitarian

I'll be glad to post more photos and I'd like to get some opinions. (I'm pretty sure it's NOT a letter opener)

HH Joe

 

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[DrJoePrime]

Re: Copper Artifact from California

I found this a week ago and I've obsessed ever since.

I've researched this evening and it seems copper was used in pounded nugget form in the Lake Superior area and also Alaska. However there was trade with the Mesoamerican Indians. I've found reference to:

MEXICO, GUERRERO-MICHOACAN, Post-classic "Tarascan," c. 1250-1540 AD, "tajadera" hoe money, copper-arsenic alloy, ~200x65mm, highly curled rather than flat
which looks like this:

I get lazy and with a lot of corrosion the stainless works good. Of course if I knew (and IF it is) an Indian artifact I would for sure use a brass brush. Right now I'm afraid to touch it with ANYTHING.

I live close to CSU Long Beach and I may try to get an ID from the Archaeology Department. Right now (preliminary judgement) it seems it's not native to this area.

 

[thompy]

Re: Copper Artifact from California

pretty cool what ever time frame it came from, ive read that copper artifacts have been found all over the us. i know some of the gold mines had ore silver copper and gold in them around marquette county, so it could be possible, but i think they would pick the purest copper, to avoid problems when it was worked, never seen carvings on copper like that.

 

[Monette]

That piece is GORGEOUS. I am creating the largest known copper artifact database in the world, and I've never seen anything like it. I suspect that it's from Mesoamerica. Can you tell if it has any silver flaking?

I'm going a presentation on Mesoamerican copper next month in Chicago and would love to feature this in my powerpoint, and also add it to my database. Please send a photo of the piece to [email protected] and note the county in which it was found, how deep, if it was near water, and also if you want anonymity as I log this into my database.

Please see my website at Home - Monette Bebow-Reinhard if you have more questions, or email me and we can converse. I just go done doing a search on Terry James' collection in California, and just this morning noted in my most recent copper newsletter that I didn't find any good copper pieces to share in California.

This is stunning - I usually advise people never to clean an artifact, but you've just given a good reason to do so.
Monette

 

[GatorBoy]

I looks to me like a decorative piece from a horse bridle. A horse bridle frontlet.

 

[GatorBoy]

 

[GatorBoy]

This is a flamboyant example. See the peice where the rein attaches to the bridle bit at the corner of the mouth...your piece is concave because it fit over a leather strap.

 

[GatorBoy]

I don't mean this in a bad way at all but from what I've seen 90% of copper artifacts I've seen posted on Tnet are not Native American related in my opinion.

 

[Tnmountains]

Personal message the original poster his thread is 5 years old. He is still an active member. Good luck with your presentation.

 

[Tnmountains]

I don't mean this in a bad way at all but from what I've seen 90% of copper artifacts I've seen posted on Tnet are not Native American related in my opinion.

View attachment 748973

When we had the copper culture forum separate they were. Many have stopped posting maybe due to various laws up north of us I always enjoy seeing that culture.

 

[GatorBoy]

I had no idea the thread was that old. It was up there with recent posts with the word update. I love seeing real copper culture artifacts too.

 

[GatorBoy]

That piece is GORGEOUS. I am creating the largest known copper artifact database in the world, and I've never seen anything like it. I suspect that it's from Mesoamerica. Can you tell if it has any silver flaking?

I'm going a presentation on Mesoamerican copper next month in Chicago and would love to feature this in my powerpoint, and also add it to my database. Please send a photo of the piece to [email protected] and note the county in which it was found, how deep, if it was near water, and also if you want anonymity as I log this into my database.

Please see my website at Home - Monette Bebow-Reinhard if you have more questions, or email me and we can converse. I just go done doing a search on Terry James' collection in California, and just this morning noted in my most recent copper newsletter that I didn't find any good copper pieces to share in California.

This is stunning - I usually advise people never to clean an artifact, but you've just given a good reason to do so.
Monette

This is the post that brought it back. I didn't look at the date of the rest.

 

[pointshunter]

I'm really into old Viking stuff and this reminds me of a piece I saw years ago on a program where they had found an old Viking site. And it looks like their design . Just an idea

 

[pointshunter]

You should look up Viking runes or Viking artifacts because the symbol in the middle that looks like a seven is truly a Viking symbol for something you could of found a major discovery

 

[Monette]

Joe I think it's a native artifact, and it could be a fish symbol with a hook inside to bring luck to a fisherman. Thanks for sharing these. The Celt/Axe design that you also shared was probably something used in Mesoamerica for money and that same kind of design may have been used all the way up the coast to Alaska. So we can't rule out that idea for your find, either.

 

[quito]

I don't mean this in a bad way at all but from what I've seen 90% of copper artifacts I've seen posted on Tnet are not Native American related in my opinion.

View attachment 748973

sheesh dude. Like the barrel tools you completely missed the boat on?

 

[GatorBoy]

It must be from Vikings
I stand by that statement that you quoted 100%

 

[quito]

Yawn!

Leave it to a guy from florida to picture authenticate and dis-agree with an Archaic Copper Culture *EXPERT* from the Great Lakes Region. You really should do a little more thinking before posting.

 

[GatorBoy]

Look dude..if you want to argue and that's all you appear to be up to..take it to a P.M. I will give you my telephone number if you would like.

 

[quito]

Look dude..if you want to argue and that's all you appear to be up to..take it to a P.M. I will give you my telephone number if you would like.

Really? You must not read my posts. I haven't argued once. I've just posted pictures, complimented people, opined, and called things the way they appear to me. Last thing I want to do is mix it up with an expert on just about everything...... I know better. BTW, How do we block people we don't want to hear from, from sending pm's?