New Gold
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Actually brother Roy of the Grand Masonic Lodge's exact words were "I personally feel that the money pit is probably Knights Templar.". He looks pretty old too so he is probably fairly high ranking.
Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!
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Actually brother Roy of the Grand Masonic Lodge's exact words were "I personally feel that the money pit is probably Knights Templar.". He looks pretty old too so he is probably fairly high ranking.
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
Actually the 14th century Templars did bury it, but not on Oak Island. They buried it at Charing Cross (new Ross) about 20 miles from Oak Island. Scott Wolter didn't find it because it was moved in the middle of the 15th century across Nova Scotia to a site near Annapolis Basin.
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Robot
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“Clairvoyance” and the “Fanny Young Shaft”
"The Fanny Young Pit: The 1890’s prospectus of the Oak Island Treasure Co (6), which was the syndicate digging for the treasure in the late 1890’s and early 1900’s, refers to the Fanny Young Pit dug close to the Money Pit in about 1850 in these words:
“....Mr Isaac Blair....states: ‘you asked me to tell you what I saw when the old Pit (or what is called the treasure pit) on Oak Island caved in, while the men were tunnelling through from what was then called the ‘Fanny Young Pit’ (so called from a clairvoyant who had been consulted on the subject). That was in 1850 and the fact of the pit being named for her would indicate that it was dug at that time. The probability is that it was, and afterwards deepened in 1861. To the believers in clairvoyants and spiritualism many interesting things as told by Miss Young and others of the same faith can be related and when they struck the old pit they said the earth there had been dug over’.”
Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith (1805-1844) practised treasure digging when a young man. His 34th and last wife was Fanny Young (1787-1859) a sister of later Mormon Church leader Brigham Young (57). We do not at the present time have any direct evidence that the Fanny Young associated with Oak Island was the same person as Joseph Smith’s 34th wife, but if they were different women, then it is a most remarkable and singular coincidence that the 34th wife of a known treasure digger and prophet had exactly the same name as a “clairvoyant” who was consulted on digging for the Oak Island treasure. The coincidence is heightened when we note that Joseph Smith’s 34th wife was still living when the Fanny Young Pit on Oak Island was dug about 1850, when Joseph Smith’s 34th wife was once again a widow (Joseph Smith having been her third and final husband) and it is therefore plausible she would have reverted to her maiden name of Fanny Young at that time. If the Fanny Young Pit on Oak Island was named after Joseph Smith’s 34th wife, then the links of Oak Island to the widow of a known treasure digger does nothing to enhance the credibility of the Oak Island Legend.
We know from the historical record that Brigham Young's sister was named Fanny, and that she was also the 34th "celestial" wife of the younger Joseph Smith. The available biographical information suggests she was not on Oak Island in 1850, but the writer quoted above says only that he was on the island in that year. He does not state the clairvoyant was consulted during that period, so it is possible the site of the "Fanny Young Pit" was selected years earlier. The prospectus may or may not refer to Smith's wife, but a relationship between those involved in early activity on the island and the early Mormon community seems to be supported by other genealogical evidence.
It is also worthy of note that Joseph Smith was distantly related by marriage to Antony Vaughn who was reputedly one of the Money Pit’s three initial excavators in the late 1700’s (58).
Private communication to the writer from British researcher John Bartram. The prophet Joseph Smith (1805-1844) was a second cousin once removed to Sophia Mack (1822-1901) who in turn was sister-in-law to Joseph Crandall who was the great grandnephew of pit excavator Antony Vaughn (1751-1835). To put this in another way, the prophet Joseph Smith was the second cousin-in-law (once removed) of Joseph Crandall, a great grandnephew of Antony Vaughn who was one of the three initial excavators of the Money Pit."
THE OAK ISLAND LEGEND: THE MASONIC ANGLE
By Dennis J King
May 12, 2010
"The Fanny Young Pit: The 1890’s prospectus of the Oak Island Treasure Co (6), which was the syndicate digging for the treasure in the late 1890’s and early 1900’s, refers to the Fanny Young Pit dug close to the Money Pit in about 1850 in these words:
“....Mr Isaac Blair....states: ‘you asked me to tell you what I saw when the old Pit (or what is called the treasure pit) on Oak Island caved in, while the men were tunnelling through from what was then called the ‘Fanny Young Pit’ (so called from a clairvoyant who had been consulted on the subject). That was in 1850 and the fact of the pit being named for her would indicate that it was dug at that time. The probability is that it was, and afterwards deepened in 1861. To the believers in clairvoyants and spiritualism many interesting things as told by Miss Young and others of the same faith can be related and when they struck the old pit they said the earth there had been dug over’.”
Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith (1805-1844) practised treasure digging when a young man. His 34th and last wife was Fanny Young (1787-1859) a sister of later Mormon Church leader Brigham Young (57). We do not at the present time have any direct evidence that the Fanny Young associated with Oak Island was the same person as Joseph Smith’s 34th wife, but if they were different women, then it is a most remarkable and singular coincidence that the 34th wife of a known treasure digger and prophet had exactly the same name as a “clairvoyant” who was consulted on digging for the Oak Island treasure. The coincidence is heightened when we note that Joseph Smith’s 34th wife was still living when the Fanny Young Pit on Oak Island was dug about 1850, when Joseph Smith’s 34th wife was once again a widow (Joseph Smith having been her third and final husband) and it is therefore plausible she would have reverted to her maiden name of Fanny Young at that time. If the Fanny Young Pit on Oak Island was named after Joseph Smith’s 34th wife, then the links of Oak Island to the widow of a known treasure digger does nothing to enhance the credibility of the Oak Island Legend.
We know from the historical record that Brigham Young's sister was named Fanny, and that she was also the 34th "celestial" wife of the younger Joseph Smith. The available biographical information suggests she was not on Oak Island in 1850, but the writer quoted above says only that he was on the island in that year. He does not state the clairvoyant was consulted during that period, so it is possible the site of the "Fanny Young Pit" was selected years earlier. The prospectus may or may not refer to Smith's wife, but a relationship between those involved in early activity on the island and the early Mormon community seems to be supported by other genealogical evidence.
It is also worthy of note that Joseph Smith was distantly related by marriage to Antony Vaughn who was reputedly one of the Money Pit’s three initial excavators in the late 1700’s (58).
Private communication to the writer from British researcher John Bartram. The prophet Joseph Smith (1805-1844) was a second cousin once removed to Sophia Mack (1822-1901) who in turn was sister-in-law to Joseph Crandall who was the great grandnephew of pit excavator Antony Vaughn (1751-1835). To put this in another way, the prophet Joseph Smith was the second cousin-in-law (once removed) of Joseph Crandall, a great grandnephew of Antony Vaughn who was one of the three initial excavators of the Money Pit."
THE OAK ISLAND LEGEND: THE MASONIC ANGLE
By Dennis J King
May 12, 2010
Dave Rishar
Silver Member
Big? Maybe, but not overly so. Certainly not large enough to warrant quotation marks. I'm only about 3" taller than the American average and in the Netherlands, I would actually be of average height.
Source? I'm not disagreeing with this as it sounds perfectly reasonable. I'm just curious.
Of course, that brings us to auxology, which is a fascinating topic in its own right and one that I've done a bit of reading about. For a very long time, everyone was quite sure that genetics played the dominant role in human height. As the 3rd World became the 2nd World and the 2nd World became the first, we saw that diet played a far "larger" (har har) role than had been previously thought. This shouldn't have come as a surprise, though; continental nobles were not uncommonly quite a bit taller than the masses, although they were genetically similar. What was different was their diet and standard of living. The industrialization of South Korea made things painfully clear more recently. The North and South Koreans are genetically the same, but South Koreans are several inches taller on average. The difference is the diet.
I ate enough calories when I was growing up, so I grew up tall. My brother and father (both genetically very similar to me) are significantly shorter. The difference is that they both wrestled in high school, while I ran cross country. I ate as much as I wanted. They starved themselves to cut weight. Think about how many people you know that wrestled in high school, and how few of them are tall. It really is the diet. We're not genetically any different from folks back then, not to any meaningful degree. As a case in point, King Henry VIII was even taller than I am, and that was five centuries ago. He reportedly ate very well.
Slightly off-topic, but I read an article not too long ago about the new challenges facing the PLA in China. One of the pressing issues is that the conscripts are too damned tall to use Soviet equipment! The soldiers are simply too big to fit into those tiny little Russian tanks. The Chinese view (and one that I share) is that China's improved economy has elevated many lower class families into the middle class, and their children are eating suitably better and are becoming too tall as a result of it. Everything from the vehicles to the rifles may have to be rescaled to the new Chinese soldier. First World problems, right?
So was a man of my size common a few hundred years ago? Of course not. But it was certainly not unheard of, particularly among the wealthy, and some men of history were quite a bit larger than I am. Such a man would not have been a medical mystery. He merely would have been uncommonly tall, and probably from a wealthy family.
This is assuming, of course, that the shoe in question was worn by someone with feet that were proportionately sized with regard to the rest of their body, and that can be a big assumption. I work with a guy that has ape arms. He's 5'10" or so and has a reach of 86" or something stupid like that. (In comparison, I have an unusually long reach of 84" and I'm a few inches taller than he is.) When he buys long sleeve shirts, he has to buy them several sizes too large and then have the sleeves hemmed, as when he wears shirts that are his size the sleeves barely come past his elbows.
Why did those shoes supposedly wind up in the ground? Were they lost or left? What size was the other shoe? Was the big shoe from a big guy, or from a regular guy with big feet? It's dangerous to assume too much from small things.
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Robot
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The added emphasis on every other word is distracting but "cute"... Are you related to Rebel KGC ?
Not related to Rebel, just admire his knowledge on Freemasonry.
I was trying out a form of Robotic Reading and Writing, a form of speed reading as in short hand.
I agree it is annoying and best stopped.
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Robot
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Could UFO’s also be Treasure Hunting for Golden Treasures or the Ark of the Covenant?
Oak Island is a Hot Spot for UFO’s
Oak Island is located between Nova Scotia’s UFO hot spots, Peggy’s Cove and Shag Harbour.
Shag Harbour 1967 UFO Incident
Witnesses “spotted something unusual above and in front of their car. A large object flashing four sequential lights, amber coloured descended at a modest rate of speed at an angle of approximately forty five-degrees. From their vantage point it looked like the object was going to go down into the waters of the Harbour.”
“Air Desk in Ottawa, that sector of the Royal Canadian Air Force responsible for the gathering and investigation of UFO reports, tagged the sighting as the crash of a UFO and in other reports refer to it as a "dark object". The RCMP in their reports refers to the craft as a UFO. They had no choice for all other explanations for the event did not fit the scenario.”
“One thing is for certain. This event was probably the most documented case of a UFO crash in the history of UFO crashes.”
Officials stated that “we are certain that what happened at Shag Harbour was only the tip of the iceberg and the beginning of a seven day adventure involving two objects, the navy and air forces of two countries and NORAD.”
Oak Island is a Hot Spot for UFO’s
Oak Island is located between Nova Scotia’s UFO hot spots, Peggy’s Cove and Shag Harbour.
Shag Harbour 1967 UFO Incident
Witnesses “spotted something unusual above and in front of their car. A large object flashing four sequential lights, amber coloured descended at a modest rate of speed at an angle of approximately forty five-degrees. From their vantage point it looked like the object was going to go down into the waters of the Harbour.”
“Air Desk in Ottawa, that sector of the Royal Canadian Air Force responsible for the gathering and investigation of UFO reports, tagged the sighting as the crash of a UFO and in other reports refer to it as a "dark object". The RCMP in their reports refers to the craft as a UFO. They had no choice for all other explanations for the event did not fit the scenario.”
“One thing is for certain. This event was probably the most documented case of a UFO crash in the history of UFO crashes.”
Officials stated that “we are certain that what happened at Shag Harbour was only the tip of the iceberg and the beginning of a seven day adventure involving two objects, the navy and air forces of two countries and NORAD.”
New Gold
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Very interesting Robot. Thanks for sharing!
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Robot
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Was "Oak Island" built because of a "Relationship Gone Bad"?
The 4th Earl Ferrers, descendant of an ancient and noble family, was the eldest son of Hon. Laurence Ferrers, himself a younger son of the Robert Shirley, 1st Earl Ferrers-a descendant of Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
It was said that there was insanity in his family, and from an early age his behavior seems to have been eccentric, and his temper violent, though he was quite capable of managing his business affairs. Significantly, in 1758, his wife obtained a separation from him for cruelty, which would have been extremely rare for the time. She was said to be extremely pretty and clearly did not appreciate her husband's drinking, womanizing and the fact that he had a mistress and children.
The old family steward was murdered, it would seem, because he may have given evidence on Mary's behalf and was afterwards taxed with collecting rents due to her.
On 5 May 1760, dressed in a light-colored suit embroidered with silver (the outfit he had worn at his wedding), he was taken in his own carriage from the Tower of London to Tyburn and there hanged by Thomas Turlis.
There are several illustrations of the hanging. It has been said that as a concession to his order the rope used was of silk.
Two weeks after the execution of his brother, Laurence Shirley, 4th Earl Ferrers in 1760, Washington Shirley took his seat in the House of Lords (as the new Earl Ferrers).
Ferrers was appointed a deputy lieutenant of Staffordshire on 28 August 1761.
In 1763, George III granted him the family estates, previously forfeit by his brother as a felon (much to the surprise of Casanova, then visiting London) and he began to transform the family seat of Staunton Harold in Leicestershire.
He was later promoted as a Rear Admiral in 1771 and Vice-Admiral in 1775.
In 1762 "Washington Shirley" had become the "Grand Master of the Freemasons of London" and his "Vendetta" against "King George III" was to be the instigation of the transfer of all the "Freemason’s Treasures" to the “New world”.
The 4th Earl Ferrers, descendant of an ancient and noble family, was the eldest son of Hon. Laurence Ferrers, himself a younger son of the Robert Shirley, 1st Earl Ferrers-a descendant of Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
It was said that there was insanity in his family, and from an early age his behavior seems to have been eccentric, and his temper violent, though he was quite capable of managing his business affairs. Significantly, in 1758, his wife obtained a separation from him for cruelty, which would have been extremely rare for the time. She was said to be extremely pretty and clearly did not appreciate her husband's drinking, womanizing and the fact that he had a mistress and children.
The old family steward was murdered, it would seem, because he may have given evidence on Mary's behalf and was afterwards taxed with collecting rents due to her.
On 5 May 1760, dressed in a light-colored suit embroidered with silver (the outfit he had worn at his wedding), he was taken in his own carriage from the Tower of London to Tyburn and there hanged by Thomas Turlis.
There are several illustrations of the hanging. It has been said that as a concession to his order the rope used was of silk.
Two weeks after the execution of his brother, Laurence Shirley, 4th Earl Ferrers in 1760, Washington Shirley took his seat in the House of Lords (as the new Earl Ferrers).
Ferrers was appointed a deputy lieutenant of Staffordshire on 28 August 1761.
In 1763, George III granted him the family estates, previously forfeit by his brother as a felon (much to the surprise of Casanova, then visiting London) and he began to transform the family seat of Staunton Harold in Leicestershire.
He was later promoted as a Rear Admiral in 1771 and Vice-Admiral in 1775.
In 1762 "Washington Shirley" had become the "Grand Master of the Freemasons of London" and his "Vendetta" against "King George III" was to be the instigation of the transfer of all the "Freemason’s Treasures" to the “New world”.
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I was wondering where you had figured out that it had been moved to a location near the basin?
Did you want to talk about your site?
lokiblossom
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Sure I will talk about the site. By following easy to decipher clues from the Shepherdess Parchment, two paintings referenced by the S.P quatrain 6-97 by Nostradamas, a ley line I discovered, and a vague reference to a divide crossing at Blue Mountain, I recently stood on what I believe to be the current hiding place of at least whats left of the Templar treasures from Cyprus and Templar headquarters in Paris plus a very important religious object.
I have written "Nova Scotia Museums" several times, but all I got from them was "find an archaeologist".
As for the quatrain, I don't believe Nostradamas actually prophesied anything, but he was involved with the group that has been identified as the Priory of Sion, and he wrote his quatrains after the objects were moved from Charing Cross (now New Ross).
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If one of the clues had involved some parts of one of Shakespeare's plays..........I'll bet someone from the museums would have came running with a shovel
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Robot
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Could a 20th Century ghost story contain a clue to who “Built Oak Island”?
Early 1900's Fireman Hat
“In the late 1930's a family named Adams were living on Oak Island where they worked as caretakers. They had a four-year-old daughter named Peggy who had never been to school or had never even been exposed to books.
One day during the winter, she had been playing outside and returned excitedly to tell her mother that she had seen many men wearing red coats and hats looking like firemen's hats. Peggy and her mother retraced her steps and reached a location between the Money Pit and Smith's Cove but there were no footprints in the snow, as though no one had been there.
Many years later when Mrs Adams visited the Citadel at Halifax to see the museum, they saw effigies of British soldiers dressed in uniforms dating from 1754-1783, matching those identified by Peggy who was quick to recognise the costume.”
Canadian 1760 ad Grenadier
Soldiers' hats were of a particular style and were limited in fashion to a relative short period of time.
From the Cocker or Tricorne hat (Triangular hat) a noted (Pirate’s hat) to the Bicorne worn straight, to the Bicorne worn in the Napoleon style, there was only one that resembled a “Firemen’s Hat”.
I would believe that Peggy Adams thought this to be the Mitre cap or Grenadier cap worn by the Canadian and British Grenadiers.
The Grenadier cap began in 1700 and continued until 1768 when it was replaced with the Grenadiers Bearskin cap.
It was also a fact that the Canadian Grenadier foot brigade were stationed in Halifax and in 1762 went to the Battle of Havana under Lieutenant-General William Keppel.
It was also curious that they did not return directly back to Halifax Nova Scotia after capturing Fort Morro, but claimed to have spent several months at Cuba.
“15th (York, East Riding) Regiment of Foot
Formed in 1685 and designated as the 15th in 1751.The regiment arrived in Halifax on April 15th, 1758 and took part in the siege and capture of Louisburg that June at a strength of 859 . From Louisburg it went to Quebec with Wolfe, It fought in the great battle on the heights of Abraham, and after Wolfe's death served at the defense of Quebec, and with the force sent against Montreal under General Murray, which completed the conquest of the Canada's. Next, it was at the capture of Martinique, and it the siege and conquest of the Havana in 1762, and was quartered for eleven months in Cuba, thence proceeding to New York, and afterwards back to Canada, where it served many years.”
Early 1900's Fireman Hat
“In the late 1930's a family named Adams were living on Oak Island where they worked as caretakers. They had a four-year-old daughter named Peggy who had never been to school or had never even been exposed to books.
One day during the winter, she had been playing outside and returned excitedly to tell her mother that she had seen many men wearing red coats and hats looking like firemen's hats. Peggy and her mother retraced her steps and reached a location between the Money Pit and Smith's Cove but there were no footprints in the snow, as though no one had been there.
Many years later when Mrs Adams visited the Citadel at Halifax to see the museum, they saw effigies of British soldiers dressed in uniforms dating from 1754-1783, matching those identified by Peggy who was quick to recognise the costume.”
Canadian 1760 ad Grenadier
Soldiers' hats were of a particular style and were limited in fashion to a relative short period of time.
From the Cocker or Tricorne hat (Triangular hat) a noted (Pirate’s hat) to the Bicorne worn straight, to the Bicorne worn in the Napoleon style, there was only one that resembled a “Firemen’s Hat”.
I would believe that Peggy Adams thought this to be the Mitre cap or Grenadier cap worn by the Canadian and British Grenadiers.
The Grenadier cap began in 1700 and continued until 1768 when it was replaced with the Grenadiers Bearskin cap.
It was also a fact that the Canadian Grenadier foot brigade were stationed in Halifax and in 1762 went to the Battle of Havana under Lieutenant-General William Keppel.
It was also curious that they did not return directly back to Halifax Nova Scotia after capturing Fort Morro, but claimed to have spent several months at Cuba.
“15th (York, East Riding) Regiment of Foot
Formed in 1685 and designated as the 15th in 1751.The regiment arrived in Halifax on April 15th, 1758 and took part in the siege and capture of Louisburg that June at a strength of 859 . From Louisburg it went to Quebec with Wolfe, It fought in the great battle on the heights of Abraham, and after Wolfe's death served at the defense of Quebec, and with the force sent against Montreal under General Murray, which completed the conquest of the Canada's. Next, it was at the capture of Martinique, and it the siege and conquest of the Havana in 1762, and was quartered for eleven months in Cuba, thence proceeding to New York, and afterwards back to Canada, where it served many years.”
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New Gold
Full Member
“Oak Island” the “Strange”, the “Bizarre”, and “Maybe” the "Truth”!
From what I have read the medieval Priory of Sion never really existed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
God Damn the Da Vinci Code
From what I have read the medieval Priory of Sion never really existed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
God Damn the Da Vinci Code
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lokiblossom
Bronze Member
A written list of Grand Masters of the priory of Sion never existed. In the story of the Priory though"1188" is a very important but misused date....Loki
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“In the late 1930's a family named Adams were living on Oak Island where they worked as caretakers.
What were they taking care of ?
Gary
What were they taking care of ?
Gary
New Gold
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“Oak Island” the “Strange”, the “Bizarre”, and “Maybe” the "Truth”!
Care to elaborate Loki? Is 1188 the year the Priory was founded?
EDIT I looked it up and 1188 is the year the Priory severed ties with the Templars. Is this about right?
And is your proposed final resting place in Nova Scotia?
Care to elaborate Loki? Is 1188 the year the Priory was founded?
EDIT I looked it up and 1188 is the year the Priory severed ties with the Templars. Is this about right?
And is your proposed final resting place in Nova Scotia?
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lokiblossom
Bronze Member
That is the alleged theory, yes, it was called the splitting of the elm.
Robert Denyau, the Cure of Gisors ( the location of the alleged splitting of the elm you refer to) wrote in a 1629 history of the Gisors family that in 1188, Jean de Gisors (the first Grand Master of the Priory of Sion) founded the "The Order of the Rose Cross'. This was some 350 years pre hoax. In confirmation of at least part of this story, baron de Westerode in a letter dated1784 says the disciples of "The Rose Croix" came in 1188 from the East into Europe, for the propagation of Christianity after the troubles in Palestine [ie, the crusades].
The point of this is that "The Order of The Rose Croix" served as a front for the alleged Priory of Sion. Many of the members listed on the Priory list were actually "Rosicrucians" and many others were either alleged to be members or connected to known members.
Dave Rishar
Silver Member
What does this have anything to do with the Money Pit? Are you suggesting ghost stories as evidence?
New Gold
Full Member
Dave, I think he is just sharing some interesting historical stories about oak island. Although this one is in clear support of his theory that the money pit is eighteenth century. A little girl who had never been to school claims to see an eighteenth century soldier, which "clearly" must have been a ghost.
Even if you believe in ghosts robot, the presence of british forces on oak island does not necessarily mean that they had anything to do with the pit.
Even if you believe in ghosts robot, the presence of british forces on oak island does not necessarily mean that they had anything to do with the pit.
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