Not possible digging that deep.
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Dave Rishar
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I'm familiar with that method of brine concentration, but it's normally used with a lagoon of some sort, right? This method works well when the body of water has a large surface area to depth ratio, but is far less efficient in...well, in a hole.
Are you proposing that they dug trenches to channel seawater to an inland pond of some sort?
Are you proposing that they dug trenches to channel seawater to an inland pond of some sort?
No....not at all....the pool was formed by letting high tide through opening/closing inlets in a coffer dam at the cove, this way they could control the high tide coming in and capture it in a pool....then when it had concentrated to more salinity, use the finger drains to drain that batch into a holding well to be processed by boiling it off in pans at the burn pit nearby...the finger drains functioned as a way to keep control over the water when the un-concentrated high tide was let into the coffer dam pool so as not to dilute the holding well concentrated water...sluice gates if you will, opened and closed off as needed.
By doing it this way they could process the concentrated water from the holding well over whatever time period it took, while a new batch of un-concentrated high tide water was let in and concentrating at the same time. Instead of just pumping it direct from the pond to burn off pans, this allowed more production
By doing it this way they could process the concentrated water from the holding well over whatever time period it took, while a new batch of un-concentrated high tide water was let in and concentrating at the same time. Instead of just pumping it direct from the pond to burn off pans, this allowed more production
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Maybe a timeline of sorts will help....
Smith's cove has a coffer dam built, there is evidence of one having been there...finger drains, holding well, burn off pit built.....
So...water is let in at high tide thru inlets in the coffer dam to fill a pool to depth wanted
That water sets and evaporates to concentrate the salt in solution
This concentrated water is then let into a holding well thru the finger drains and once full, the drains closed off
The coffer dam inlets are opened to the next high tide once again to depth wanted and then closed off
While that new water is concentrating, the concentrated water from the holding well is pumped to burn off pans as needed to produce salt
Process repeated to keep a steady supply of salt for the fish station, excess salt production warehoused for winter months
This method basically doubles production by doing 2 operations at once...concentrating the new sea water, while boiling off the already concentrated sea water...
instead of waiting for a new batch of concentrated water to be made, then boiling that off...waiting again for more concentrated water...boiling it off....etc...
Smith's cove has a coffer dam built, there is evidence of one having been there...finger drains, holding well, burn off pit built.....
So...water is let in at high tide thru inlets in the coffer dam to fill a pool to depth wanted
That water sets and evaporates to concentrate the salt in solution
This concentrated water is then let into a holding well thru the finger drains and once full, the drains closed off
The coffer dam inlets are opened to the next high tide once again to depth wanted and then closed off
While that new water is concentrating, the concentrated water from the holding well is pumped to burn off pans as needed to produce salt
Process repeated to keep a steady supply of salt for the fish station, excess salt production warehoused for winter months
This method basically doubles production by doing 2 operations at once...concentrating the new sea water, while boiling off the already concentrated sea water...
instead of waiting for a new batch of concentrated water to be made, then boiling that off...waiting again for more concentrated water...boiling it off....etc...
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gazzahk
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I am sorry just do not buy the salt making argument.
Edit: Just re-read your post and it raised another question in my mind. If this was the process what was the point of covering the whole beach with the coconut fibres and eel grass before replacing all the sand on top?
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gazzahk
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Thanks for the feedback re J.Steele.. So what do you think the British were doing on the island?
gazzahk...
"I am sorry just do not buy the salt making argument."
That's fine, I am only using known facts of a fish company owning property on the island, commercial fishing in the area they also had the rights to, the need for this product to ship their product and the high costs to bring it in from Europe rather than make it themselves with readily available materials...plus doing this with a minimum of costs, free trees, free water, 3 or 4 guys to cut trees and burn the water off.
So it does make sense to me...
Kind of like owning a factory that made wood widgets and having a forest outside your door to get the materials from and the manpower to get the wood yourself....why would you buy it instead and increase your costs?
I'm not convinced on the limited reporting of fibre/grass...perhaps they only covered the drains themselves as a filter to keep sand from filling in the holding well....and the sand on top showed they were doing the job...Rocks were also reported to have been on the manmade beach...perhaps to slow down the movement of the sand to the filter drains.....
Does not really matter though as anything is just speculation at this point, with the island never having undergone a real archeological dig...everything is suspect.
"I am sorry just do not buy the salt making argument."
That's fine, I am only using known facts of a fish company owning property on the island, commercial fishing in the area they also had the rights to, the need for this product to ship their product and the high costs to bring it in from Europe rather than make it themselves with readily available materials...plus doing this with a minimum of costs, free trees, free water, 3 or 4 guys to cut trees and burn the water off.
So it does make sense to me...
Kind of like owning a factory that made wood widgets and having a forest outside your door to get the materials from and the manpower to get the wood yourself....why would you buy it instead and increase your costs?
I'm not convinced on the limited reporting of fibre/grass...perhaps they only covered the drains themselves as a filter to keep sand from filling in the holding well....and the sand on top showed they were doing the job...Rocks were also reported to have been on the manmade beach...perhaps to slow down the movement of the sand to the filter drains.....
Does not really matter though as anything is just speculation at this point, with the island never having undergone a real archeological dig...everything is suspect.
Tom_in_CA
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This doesn't make sense. It would be like if someone came on and said "I'm thinking about buying this type metal detector . It is true that this is the greatest detectpr ?" A fellow hobbyists responds that the machine is lousy in minerals, and pinpoints poorly. So the O.P. says "well gee, if you're not going to say it's the best machine ever, then why are you even answering my post/thread ? Well .... uh ... weren't the pro's and con's were up for discussion ??
Perhaps they could. So too could I invest $100,000,000 to build a house a house on Mt. Everest. But why would I want to ?
Everything you're saying is predicated on someone having some/any reason to do such a crazy thing in the first. But if their intent was to "hide" a treasure, then you only need to bury 1, or 5, or 10 ft. down. Once the surface of your hole is covered back over, then NO ADDITIONAL AMOUNT OF DEPTH "hides" it any better . It's invisible from the surface. So ... why oh why oh why is there this fantasy that treasures need .... of necessity ... to be insanely complicated deep ?
Hence your analogy falls apart.
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
Salt farms for commercial use would have to be massive many many acre operations. Salt could be harvested by sun drying sea water in a smaller area but you could only get a minimal amount, perhaps enough to serve a family.
Cheers, Loki
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
This doesn't make sense. It would be like if someone came on and said "I'm thinking about buying this type metal detector . It is true that this is the greatest detectpr ?" A fellow hobbyists responds that the machine is lousy in minerals, and pinpoints poorly. So the O.P. says "well gee, if you're not going to say it's the best machine ever, then why are you even answering my post/thread ? Well .... uh ... weren't the pro's and con's were up for discussion ??
Hence your analogy falls apart.
So does yours, and btw, I don't think Nepal would let you build a house on Everest for any amount of money!
Cheers, Loki
Read up on Smith and his other accomplices, planting gold and rocks with inscriptions such as the golden 12 commandments... always an excuse to dig deeper.
What is the deal on salt? the alleged extensive works just to provide seawater to produce salt? oi vey
What is the deal on salt? the alleged extensive works just to provide seawater to produce salt? oi vey
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"What is the deal on salt? the alleged extensive works just to provide seawater to produce salt? oi vey "
You're right...they could just hop over to the local Dollar General and pick some up....
The 'deal' is they used salt in preserving the fish they sold in far off markets...and the only other place to get it was to have it shipped in 1000's of miles by sea at great expense...and not a reliable source at that if a ship sunk on it's way over.
You're right...they could just hop over to the local Dollar General and pick some up....
The 'deal' is they used salt in preserving the fish they sold in far off markets...and the only other place to get it was to have it shipped in 1000's of miles by sea at great expense...and not a reliable source at that if a ship sunk on it's way over.
Sooooo....
Since everyone poo poo's the salt making aspect of the reason for box drains, well, burning pit, and all the rest..that were verified as being there
Let's hear YOUR reason on 'why' there would be these things at Smith's cove...
It was dug up and no tunnels found, so that's out, not even counting there would be no need for box drains to flood a tunnel at all IF there was one...
So, what's left? What ya got?
Since everyone poo poo's the salt making aspect of the reason for box drains, well, burning pit, and all the rest..that were verified as being there
Let's hear YOUR reason on 'why' there would be these things at Smith's cove...
It was dug up and no tunnels found, so that's out, not even counting there would be no need for box drains to flood a tunnel at all IF there was one...
So, what's left? What ya got?
gazzahk
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Drying fish.
edit1 : And J.Steele Theory re making tar
edit 2: http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/blockhouse-blog/oak-island-dry-dock-theory
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gazzahk
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This link has some interesting pictures
Smith?s Cove ? a closer look at Oak Island?s artificial beach | Oak Island Treasure
It is hard to see what those logs, boxes would of been used for with either the salt or fish drying theory
It may be the beach had multiple uses and there is no one consistent theory that explains all the artifacts.
I have read (do not remember where) that some speculate the coffer dam was build by treasure hunters not pre treasure discovery as well.
Smith?s Cove ? a closer look at Oak Island?s artificial beach | Oak Island Treasure
It is hard to see what those logs, boxes would of been used for with either the salt or fish drying theory
It may be the beach had multiple uses and there is no one consistent theory that explains all the artifacts.
I have read (do not remember where) that some speculate the coffer dam was build by treasure hunters not pre treasure discovery as well.
Thanks gazzahk..
I have looked at the dry dock theory before put out in 1970...
My biggest question there is if you want to drain water from a lock, why move it underground 500 feet before you do? Why not simply pump it out over the side of the lock back into the sea...A windmill set next to the lock would do the job just as efficiently as one set over the money pit, and actually more so since it wouldn't be moving water up from a 100 or so feet underground. The windmill, pump, piping,whole apparatus could be smaller, cost less and do the same job. Since it also relies on wind to work, you would get more wind at a beach than you would in a grove of trees...so for those reasons, I don't follow that theory
Joy shows several examples of old time tar processing, pictures in use,...all of them are small affairs where the tar is drained off into barrels...The finger drains have a 24 foot deep by many feet wide (no exact measure given that I have found, but looks to be in the 20 foot or so range) sump or well, that they angle down too and converge on...so in what way could that work for tar processing? She also doesn't take into account the drains being covered with flat rocks, the fibre or eel grass, etc.....or why it would be on a beach at all. So that is a non starter for me too.
I DO think Smith's Cove was a fishing station where the companies fleet brought the fish to be processed, the company owned the whole island around 1753, with commercial fishing having been going on since the late 1600's up and down the coast. Yes drying was a common method of preserving the fish along with salting, but more commonly done by hanging the fish in the wind and sun to dry out... same as is done today.
That's my thoughts on these theories...Thanks
I have looked at the dry dock theory before put out in 1970...
My biggest question there is if you want to drain water from a lock, why move it underground 500 feet before you do? Why not simply pump it out over the side of the lock back into the sea...A windmill set next to the lock would do the job just as efficiently as one set over the money pit, and actually more so since it wouldn't be moving water up from a 100 or so feet underground. The windmill, pump, piping,whole apparatus could be smaller, cost less and do the same job. Since it also relies on wind to work, you would get more wind at a beach than you would in a grove of trees...so for those reasons, I don't follow that theory
Joy shows several examples of old time tar processing, pictures in use,...all of them are small affairs where the tar is drained off into barrels...The finger drains have a 24 foot deep by many feet wide (no exact measure given that I have found, but looks to be in the 20 foot or so range) sump or well, that they angle down too and converge on...so in what way could that work for tar processing? She also doesn't take into account the drains being covered with flat rocks, the fibre or eel grass, etc.....or why it would be on a beach at all. So that is a non starter for me too.
I DO think Smith's Cove was a fishing station where the companies fleet brought the fish to be processed, the company owned the whole island around 1753, with commercial fishing having been going on since the late 1600's up and down the coast. Yes drying was a common method of preserving the fish along with salting, but more commonly done by hanging the fish in the wind and sun to dry out... same as is done today.
That's my thoughts on these theories...Thanks
The logs is what we have been discussing, and John has much better pictures of them he has sent me, they have angle cuts in a main log with rafter like smaller logs wood pegged to them, At each of the 'rafter' logs they are cut to accept a fascia board, plus an overhang and several feet of fascia are still attached...the top is also cut to this angle, just as they would be in building rafters for a house, to be butted to a ridge board or simply butted to each other. The rafter logs also have a notch in each one on top to accept the topside edge of the lap boards to cover the roof, ( with some roof boards still present in the pictures) this makes one edge sit lower in the rafter so the next board above it can cover (lap it) with no open gap where it covers the lower board...lays flat so less caulking needed to make weathertight. There also examples of this same style of log building online with interior shots showing this same configuration.
I believe the logs are the remainder of a building's roof that sat on the wharf for processing and storing fish, there are many pictures online of just the same type of building on pier or wharf from the 1800's...and John has confirmed that this style was used in the area before that. I am retired, but was a building contractor for most of my life...so that is what led me to recognize this as soon as I saw the pictures provided...
The roman numerals found on the logs was to be able to build the roof on the ground first, where it is much easier to cut the angles needed for rafters etc, then take apart and set into place and be able to use the right logs in the right positions...we use a similar method for some construction to save time and mistakes. Log building companies use this same method now.
That is my theory on what the U Shaped logs are...with the U caused by storm damage when the whole thing fell and tore it apart. So far we have found this to be the most plausible explanation among several of us communicating on this...but if anything changes, I am ok with that too..just looking for the right answers, not necessarily "my" answers...
I believe the logs are the remainder of a building's roof that sat on the wharf for processing and storing fish, there are many pictures online of just the same type of building on pier or wharf from the 1800's...and John has confirmed that this style was used in the area before that. I am retired, but was a building contractor for most of my life...so that is what led me to recognize this as soon as I saw the pictures provided...
The roman numerals found on the logs was to be able to build the roof on the ground first, where it is much easier to cut the angles needed for rafters etc, then take apart and set into place and be able to use the right logs in the right positions...we use a similar method for some construction to save time and mistakes. Log building companies use this same method now.
That is my theory on what the U Shaped logs are...with the U caused by storm damage when the whole thing fell and tore it apart. So far we have found this to be the most plausible explanation among several of us communicating on this...but if anything changes, I am ok with that too..just looking for the right answers, not necessarily "my" answers...
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gazzahk
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This diagram is quite interesting
(from this link) Smith?s Cove ? a closer look at Oak Island?s artificial beach | Oak Island Treasure
The claim in the writing that when the drain was plugged that water flow to the money pit fell by 50%
(from this link) Smith?s Cove ? a closer look at Oak Island?s artificial beach | Oak Island Treasure
The claim in the writing that when the drain was plugged that water flow to the money pit fell by 50%
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