Not possible digging that deep.

[Roadhse2]

Boy yeah...

You got me!

I'm still trying to figure out how they took that aerial pic in 1909 since the Wright Bros first flight was in 1903 and there were only about 6 planes in the whole world in 1909....Lucky them to get one to buzz by there and take a pic.

What is that car parked next to the roadway? 65 Ford Mustang?

Anyway, you can bait whoever you want to with slights, my taking off has nothing to do with you...I also have a life to lead that doesn't involve any of this...

Have fun...see ya!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Boy yeah...

You got me!

I'm still trying to figure out how they took that aerial pic in 1909 since the Wright Bros first flight was in 1903 and there were only about 6 planes in the whole world in 1909....Lucky them to get one to buzz by there and take a pic.

Hee hee! That an image of the Dunfield era in the 1950's. Not 1909.

I'm a fan of Glenn Curtiss. Father of "modern" aviation. The Wright Brothers made sure the US was feeble in WWI aviation because they sued innovators like Curtiss. The brothers invented flight and ran it into the ground for the next 15 years. Curtiss made the first "practical" aircraft with controls that became the norm. Joystick and ailerons with a rear stab elevator instead of wing warp and forward elevator.. But 1909 there were passing few aircraft in the US . . . let alone Canada. Heck, they've only had electricity for 30 years or so.

Some Curtiss firsts.

• 1909 Sale of Curtiss's "Golden Flyer" to the New York Aeronautic Society for $5,000.00 USD, marks the first sale of any aircraft in the U.S., triggers Wright Brothers lawsuits.
• 1909 First U.S. licensed aircraft manufacturer.
• 1909 Established first flying school in United States and exhibition company

 

[Dave Rishar]

Regarding drydock theories, why would a drydock be required there in the first place? During that era, you could do pretty much everything short of building a ship via careening, and there were ways to build a ship without a drydock as well. Was there even enough viable timber on the island at the time to build a decent ship?

Whatever might have been there, I don't think that it was a drydock. I'm not sold on the fishing/salting station either, but the idea in theory makes sense, so I certainly wouldn't count it out.

 

[gazzahk]

Regarding drydock theories, why would a drydock be required there in the first place? During that era, you could do pretty much everything short of building a ship via careening, and there were ways to build a ship without a drydock as well. Was there even enough viable timber on the island at the time to build a decent ship?

Whatever might have been there, I don't think that it was a drydock. I'm not sold on the fishing/salting station either, but the idea in theory makes sense, so I certainly wouldn't count it out.

I still wonder how they know that what Dunfeild found is not the remains of coffer dam built from these earlier treasure hunters (In that they did build a Dam almost 100 years before Dunfeild ripped up the beach and found all those wooden remnants)

 

[Roadhse2]

Dave Rishar...

I just wanted to make it clear this is not 'my' theory, but it is the one I subscribe to..It is Dennis Kings

The whole background is given here, as has been posted several times in the thread, including the info about the first owners of the island...a large fishing company, that it has been documented they had a fishing camp on the island, etc....and the precedence of these type of salt works elsewhere in northern climates.

Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

'My' only theory is about the U Shaped logs found and their use...

Thanks...

 

[seekerGH]

I'm still trying to figure out how they took that aerial pic in 1909 since the Wright Bros first flight was in 1903 and there were only about 6 planes in the whole world in 1909....Lucky them to get one to buzz by there and take a pic.

Did you read the descriptions on the photographs? AND, Aerial photography from balloons was used back as far as the Civil War. (1861-1865)

Boy yeah...You got me!

of course.

The fake sword was not found on Oak island and the Laginas debunked that one themselves. The coins were not found anywhere near Dunfield excavations and were found with modern metal detector equipment which Dunfeild did not have.

There are accounts of coins being found on the island in the past. Looking at the images above, I see very little of that island that has not been excavated, still, finding coins proves little, as there have been 200 years of trying to excavate the treasure.

I still wonder how they know that what Dunfeild found is not the remains of coffer dam built from these earlier treasure hunters (In that they did build a Dam almost 100 years before Dunfeild ripped up the beach and found all those wooden remnants)

as noted in my post above "now there are wooden finger drains, perhaps later attempts to dewater?"

 

[gazzahk]

, I see very little of that island that has not been excavated, still, finding coins proves little.

Huh! The island is quite large (relatively speaking) it is only the very small bit near the pit and smiths cove that have ever been excavated.. Have you actually been watching the show? Who said the coins proved anything?

 

[Raparee]

But 1909 there were passing few aircraft in the US . . . let alone Canada. Heck, they've only had electricity for 30 years or so.

lol. What? Who has only had electricity for 30 years ... aircraft or Canada?

 

[Roadhse2]

"Did you read the descriptions on the photographs? AND, Aerial photography from balloons was used back as far as the Civil War. (1861-1865)"

Of course it was....duh

Did they also have that Ford Mustang, sitting next to the roadway, back then when you say the pic was taken from a balloon?

Just curious as to how that was there in your originally proposed 1909 aerial pic..That you have now moved from what you claimed it was when you posted...

This is why i don't get into any serious conversations with guys like you...instead of saying "Whoops, I mislabeled that pic, I better go change that" You try to use some other excuse, in this case balloons, and then change the labeling of the pic hoping no one else noticed it. Trying to cover your ass with more non sense instead of admitting a mistake...what other 'facts' do you bend to fit your theory?

 

[burlbark]

"Did you read the descriptions on the photographs? AND, Aerial photography from balloons was used back as far as the Civil War. (1861-1865)"

Of course it was....duh

Did they also have that Ford Mustang, sitting next to the roadway, back then when you say the pic was taken from a balloon?

Just curious as to how that was there in your originally proposed 1909 aerial pic..

Hahaha I had to check and let out a chuckle....

 

[ILikeTreasureStories]

I don't think I've seen this video on this site. I'm just speculating, but I believe between 8:15 and 11:00 or so is footage of the "finger drains" that Dunfield and Blankenship refer to. I find that it doesn't really give any further clarity to what it is, but some may find it interesting.

 

[gazzahk]

Thanks T.Stories



I agree it does look like these are the drains referred to

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I do admit that looks like something . . . maybe 30 years old in 1965. Maybe less. How long does untreated wood last in the soil up there? I know it rots fast hereabouts (Upstate NY).

Were these to bring water "in" to flood the pit or to take water "out" placed by one of the treasure hunting groups like the one FDR was associated with?

 

[ECS]

...

Did they also have that Ford Mustang, sitting next to the roadway, back then when you say the pic was taken from a balloon?

Just curious as to how that was there in your originally proposed 1909 aerial pic..That you have now moved from what you claimed it was when you posted...

I am sure Eldo can connect that Ford Mustang to either the Templers or Thomas J Beale.

 

[gazzahk]

To aid with discussion I tried to take some screen shots of the "box drains"




You can also see the large flat rocks mentioned.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

To aid with discussion I tried to take some screen shots of the "box drains"

View attachment 1399166 View attachment 1399167 View attachment 1399168 View attachment 1399169 View attachment 1399170 View attachment 1399171 View attachment 1399172


You can also see the large flat rocks mentioned.

Well that does it. I'm convinced. Pictures don't lie afterall. If it's true that this is a man-made channel-pipe-drain like feature (and not simply natural water table water-flows), then .... it must be true. This is proof positive of an elaborate attempt to create a booby-trap, on the chance that someone tried to dig up the treasure.

Naturally, of course, you'd have to ask yourself : "Well how did the persons who bury it ever expect to GET IT THEMSELVES when they returned?". Right ? But I'm sure a reason will be floated about how the builders had devised a way .... that only they knew ... where those booby trap channels could be shut off at-will. (if you knew the correct place to put the block/valve thing).

Of course, this puts other people's theories of the insane depth at jeopardy. Because the other proposed reason why it was insanely deep, is so that rogue persons on the expedition couldn't come back on their own to retrieve it. Well gee, if those possible rogue persons knew of this way of stopping those booby traps, then why didn't they just shut the water trick system off, bring 100 people, and dig it up, since they knew how to foil the booby traps ?

But let me guess, the comeback to this will be that the implementation of the ability to turn off the booby-trap, was known only to a single person, who built that one singular component , of this elaborate scheme, right ?

Aaarrgggghhh.

 

[gazzahk]

Well that does it. I'm convinced. Pictures don't lie afterall. If it's true that this is a man-made channel-pipe-drain like feature (and not simply natural water table water-flows), then .... it must be true.

I don't think this is now being raised to support anyone's argument here re the treasure.. But it does seem to offer evidence that some type of finger drains did exist.

The setup certainly does not look 100s of years old. That wood is in way to good of condition to be wet and underground for hundreds of years.

maybe it was a septic system for a camp on the beach for the earlier treasure hunters.

It does make you wonder why the Laginas have never showed this. On one the earlier series Rick stated he would love to be able to see what the box drains looked like.

It seems pretty obvious that the members here seem to have done more research on some of this stuff the crew of the show.

Still I am pretty convinced some type of man made drain system is being showed on that film...

 

[ILikeTreasureStories]

I do admit that looks like something . . . maybe 30 years old in 1965. Maybe less. How long does untreated wood last in the soil up there? I know it rots fast hereabouts (Upstate NY).

Were these to bring water "in" to flood the pit or to take water "out" placed by one of the treasure hunting groups like the one FDR was associated with?

Wood sparsely covered with topsoil rots fast for sure. My father cleared land for his new house lot in 1980. (Eastern Maine) To save time on the project he felled the trees (pine and fur) where he intended to have the driveway. He then simply covered the trees with gravel. In 2005 he built a workshop on the border of the driveway. When digging for the foundation, he unearthed the trees he had cut 25 years earlier. Some of the needles were still green. I don't have proof but a quick google search will suffice. I'm also willing to bet that in 99% of instances water helps preserve wood, rather than help in the decomposing process. Anyway, I'm not sticking my neck out for a "finger-drain" theory, but I am inclined to believe that someone, a long time ago, spent a lot of money "playing in the dirt." I didn't like the "salt factory" theory because it was my understanding that land salt was so easily mined. Hell, the biggest salt mine in North America is in your back yard in upstate New York. I can't imagine a fish company paying laborers to create salt in a way so inefficient compared to mining land salt. Why not just buy a mine inland? So the motive of why someone built the structures seen in the above video remains at large, to me. There has been a lot of talk on these boards of how a statement would hold up in a court of law. I don't believe statements like, "They hoaxed it." or, "The wood is only 30 years old." would hold up in any court. Not with living and nonliving accounts, and video. Anyone unbiased with just a limited amount of knowledge of wood, and woodworking in general would have to agree with Blankenship that the wood in that video is at least a couple hundred years old. I consider myself knowledgeable about the downeast Maine coastline, and I live and work on the water. I have not seen it all, by any means, but I have never seen a structure under sea level, predating iron bridges, that wasn't a wharf, a herring weir, a lighthouse, or a septic drain. Of those options, I sadly have to admit that a septic drain seems most plausible, although a bit fancier than the standard outhouse and bucket method heavily favored in it's day. Then again, I too am confused which way the water is flowing.

 

[Roadhse2]

"I can't imagine a fish company paying laborers to create salt in a way so inefficient compared to mining land salt."

I am not trying to defend my going with the salt theory, everyone has their own idea as to why these things are there, i just happen to believe it the most plausible given the owners of the island and their business, the high cost of salt to import, the need and the low cost to produce it on their own as they needed it...which are all verifiable facts

Plus the fact that coastal towns in other countries used these type of salt works, in various configurations, for hundreds of years....France, the UK, Japan being among them

The drains are reported to drain back towards shore to a well/sump 24' deep....this salt theory also gives a reason for the fibre/eel grass being used to strain the seawater, to keep the well from being filled in with sand over time....or at least to a lesser degree

Agreed on the wood, just as with shipwrecks found, the wood can be in good condition, salt water helping to preserve it and the lack of oxygen being the main reasons.

For now, until someone has more all inclusive reasons for these being there, I will stick with the salt factory...doesn't mean i'm right, just means I have seen nothing else that fits as well

From what I have read there were no salt mines in the immediate area in 1753 when the fishing company bought the island, any idea when salt mining began in upper NYS?

Thanks...

Edit to add...from Wiki

"Before the advent of the internal combustion engine and earth moving equipment, mining salt was one of the most expensive and dangerous of operations, due to rapid dehydration caused by constant contact with the salt (both in the mine passages and scattered in the air as salt dust), among other problems borne of accidental excessive sodium intake. While salt is now plentiful, until the Industrial Revolution it was difficult to come by"

Also from Wiki....

"Salt pans are shallow open, often metal, pans used to evaporate brine for the production of salts. They are usually found close to the source of the salt. For example, pans used in the solar evaporation of salt from sea water are usually found on the coast, while those used to extract salt from solution-mined brine will be found near to the brine shaft. In this case, extra heat is often provided by lighting fires underneath."

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Tom, I have already put in my theory that the main part of the pit was simply a diversion from a simple concealed side tunel leading to the deposit of whatever, above the high water level. In those daye they never could dewater the pit once the traps had been sprung

With due respects to the Hydroligists, my cousin , in The SF bay area, decided to become a Hydrologist. He is famous for having declared that a certain area could absolutely not contain enough water for a comunity's needs, when a member of the board brought is a water dowser who promply brought in three wells thus fulfilling the cummities needs. Seems that hydroligist's are human also. In general they are very useful tho.