Need some advice

[bradley1719]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you had a great time and a very positive experience.

 

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[jim4silver]

I really enjoyed this post... I enjoy coins for what they are historically, and could care less about the silver/gold aspect - needless to say I'm not any type of collector other than having a few Whitman boxes full of foreign coins and discontinued U.S. (is that what y'all call coins that aren't minted anymore?) coins.

Your post was cool because I've always wondered what actually goes on at these kind of events. I like your explanation and casual approach and the fact that you don't have snide comments about the guys who are interested in numismatics, but don't know where to begin - or the guys who don't give a rats butt about anything other than collecting a "theme"... If i ever started collecting at a more committed level, I'd almost guarantee that i'd be a "theme" collector. For example, the one coin i want to buy is a 1936 Texas Centennial Half Dollar. I don't want it slabbed, i just want to put it in an air-tite capsule and on an acrylic stand in my texas history curio cabinet. I still don't own one only because I'm terrified to buy one on Ebay because I'm uninformed and want to ensure i get an authentic one, haha.

My idea of awesome coinage is getting a steel cent back in my change.

I wish someone would make a post just like yours about one of the big Virginia or Tennessee Civil War Shows.


~Tejaas~

I once had one of the Texas half dollar commems like that and they are great looking. If you buy one I would recommend you get one slabbed by PCGS or NGC so you can feel confident of getting a real one and it will probably be in great shape. You can always carefully crack it out of the slab if you don't plan on reselling it and just want to keep it in an air tite.

Jim

 

[Tejaas]

I once had one of the Texas half dollar commems like that and they are great looking. If you buy one I would recommend you get one slabbed by PCGS or NGC so you can feel confident of getting a real one and it will probably be in great shape. You can always carefully crack it out of the slab if you don't plan on reselling it and just want to keep it in an air tite.

Jim

Thats a good idea, thanks for the info... If i remember correctly i have to go thru a dealer to have something graded since i don't have a membership or account with either grading firm, correct?


~Tejaas~

 

[jim4silver]

Thats a good idea, thanks for the info... If i remember correctly i have to go thru a dealer to have something graded since i don't have a membership or account with either grading firm, correct?


~Tejaas~

You should be able to buy the coin already graded (slabbed). Most of them (state half dollar commems) I see at the dealers are slabbed to begin with, unless they are lower quality that aren't worth getting graded- you probably wouldn't want to get a lower quality one anyway.

If you live in Texas I would imagine the local dealers there see a lot of them? They greysheet at $130 for a MS64 and $165 for a MS65 (MS=mint state). You would probably pay $20 or so over those prices retail I am guessing.

Jim

 

[Tejaas]

You should be able to buy the coin already graded (slabbed). Most of them (state half dollar commems) I see at the dealers are slabbed to begin with, unless they are lower quality that aren't worth getting graded- you probably wouldn't want to get a lower quality one anyway.

If you live in Texas I would imagine the local dealers there see a lot of them? They greysheet at $130 for a MS64 and $165 for a MS65 (MS=mint state). You would probably pay $20 or so over those prices retail I am guessing.

Jim

Absolutely awesome information... I'll do some searching/calling around this week.

Thanks for all your help, and i didn't mean to hijack your thread!


~Tejaas~

 

[TheCoinKid]

Great report.

 

[billjustbill]

Jim,

As you described your days, I was "along for the ride". The next best thing to being there. I was wondering about the amount and kind of change cash you ended up taking. Did you have enough? Any specifics size bills that you ran out of?

One fellow I know buys 100 lbs. of wheat pennies and pays about $250.00. He then puts them into a coin rolling machine and then sells them for $2.50 a roll at the local flea market. Would this type of presentation and packaging be something that could be profitable and easy to do in a setting like you attended?

Thanks for making time to share your experience,
Bill

 

[Goose-0]

100 lbs of Wheaties come out to 14,600 cents. Rolled into 50 cent rolls equal 292 rolls, and at $2.50/roll, he'd take in $730. Subtract $250 for the initial purchase price of the 100 lbs equals a nice $480 profit. Sounds like a good thing to get into.

 

[jim4silver]

Jim,

As you described your days, I was "along for the ride". The next best thing to being there. I was wondering about the amount and kind of change cash you ended up taking. Did you have enough? Any specifics size bills that you ran out of?

One fellow I know buys 100 lbs. of wheat pennies and pays about $250.00. He then puts them into a coin rolling machine and then sells them for $2.50 a roll at the local flea market. Would this type of presentation and packaging be something that be profitable and easy to do in a setting like you attended?

Thanks for making time to share your experience,
Bill

Bill,

I went to the bank a day or two before day 1 of the show and picked up roughly $200 in 20's, $100 in 10's, $100 in 5's, and $30 or so in 1's. I expected people would be paying with larger bills (that is what I was told by my dealer friend) but it seemed most of my buyers had smaller bills to pay with.

I was using one of those zippered bank money bag things but when the action got hot I found myself stuffing bills into my pockets in that I kept the "change bag" on the back table and hidden, and it got to be a bit of a hassle to keep going back to get it for each customer. When things would slow down I tried to be somewhat secretive and would empty the bills out of my pocket and put them into the "change bag" (bills segregated by denomination). I kept all the larger bills 100's and 50's in my wallet and pockets just in case somehow the change bag got snatched. I decided after the show to keep the remaining change bills together and lock them up for the next show and not spend them (after taking out what was over my initial amount).

One thing I did wrong: My coin dealer friend had to chastise me a bit though because when I would go out to my car from time to time during the day or simply walk outside for fresh air, I would forgot to take off my "dealer badge" which was worn around my neck on a lanyard. He said crooks sometimes target dealers in parking lots or follow them home from the shows. The show was in a "good neighborhood" and had lots of paid security (off duty cops?) so I wasn't too worried (plus I have a CCW and had a "little friend" with me). But in hindsight I should have been a bit more careful and will be next time on that issue.

As far as selling wheaties at the show, I don't know how that would have worked here. I would imagine some would have bought them but since I only had silver to sell, people who were looking for other things probably just passed my booth after a quick look. Many folks would look and not ask for anything. I would often say "are you looking for anything in particular?" since I had some stuff put away because I couldn't fit it all in the cases. Most would say "no, just looking", and then walk off and go to the next booth.

Jim

 

[releventchair]

Great post's of the event jim4silver!

It illustrates the vast difference between collecting for the precious metals themselves vs the cosmetic appeal.
There is the suggestion that the novelty is enhanced by further novelty....

 

[billjustbill]

Bill,

I went to the bank a day or two before day 1 of the show and picked up roughly $200 in 20's, $100 in 10's, $100 in 5's, and $30 or so in 1's. I expected people would be paying with larger bills (that is what I was told by my dealer friend) but it seemed most of my buyers had smaller bills to pay with.

I was using one of those zippered bank money bag things but when the action got hot I found myself stuffing bills into my pockets in that I kept the "change bag" on the back table and hidden, and it got to be a bit of a hassle to keep going back to get it for each customer. When things would slow down I tried to be somewhat secretive and would empty the bills out of my pocket and put them into the "change bag" (bills segregated by denomination). I kept all the larger bills 100's and 50's in my wallet and pockets just in case somehow the change bag got snatched. I decided after the show to keep the remaining change bills together and lock them up for the next show and not spend them (after taking out what was over my initial amount).

One thing I did wrong: My coin dealer friend had to chastise me a bit though because when I would go out to my car from time to time during the day or simply walk outside for fresh air, I would forgot to take off my "dealer badge" which was worn around my neck on a lanyard. He said crooks sometimes target dealers in parking lots or follow them home from the shows. The show was in a "good neighborhood" and had lots of paid security (off duty cops?) so I wasn't too worried (plus I have a CCW and had a "little friend" with me). But in hindsight I should have been a bit more careful and will be next time on that issue.

As far as selling wheaties at the show, I don't know how that would have worked here. I would imagine some would have bought them but since I only had silver to sell, people who were looking for other things probably just passed my booth after a quick look. Many folks would look and not ask for anything. I would often say "are you looking for anything in particular?" since I had some stuff put away because I couldn't fit it all in the cases. Most would say "no, just looking", and then walk off and go to the next booth.

Jim

Jim, it sounds like your experience is on a positive and profitable learning curve.

One thing I've learned about carrying 1's, 5's, 10's, & 20's for change is that the bills do tend to get wadded and crammed into pants pockets. The more the traffic, the harder it is to manage. The last two garage sales we've had over the last year have averaged just over $4,000.00 in sales for a Friday and Saturday run. Crowds seem to come in waves.... ;>)

If at all possible, I try to price things and package things in whole dollars and stay away from needing coin change. Although I've had people pay for their purchases using handfuls of loose change....

I organize my change money this way: I keep a folded roll of 1's and 5's in my front left pocket and a folded roll of 10's and 20's in my right front pocket. They stay folded and organized better and making change is faster and smoother. I always put the buyer's money in view and weighted down on the table with a small heavy object while change is being made. When the big bills show up, or the folded rolls get too thick, it's time to reduce the bills and put them in your "storage/seldom needed" place.... I still may have an occasional wadded bill, but overall my system works for me.


Again, thanks for sharing your show-selling experience,


Bill

 

[billjustbill]

100 lbs of Wheaties come out to 14,600 cents. Rolled into 50 cent rolls equal 292 rolls, and at $2.50/roll, he'd take in $730. Subtract $250 for the initial purchase price of the 100 lbs equals a nice $480 profit. Sounds like a good thing to get into.

Goose,

When I read your calculations I've been meaning to come back to you and ask how you came up with lbs. of pennies = exact number of pennies. Is there a chart "out there on the Net" to show pounds vs physical count of other coins, too?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Goose-0]

Bill, There is no chart on the net or elsewhere that I know of to show how many U S coins are in a pound. I'm somewhat familiar with weights of coins AND I like math. I've collected coins for a long, long time. A Wheat cent weighs 3.1 g (grams). There are 146 Wheat cents to a pound, but since the Wheat cent is 95% copper, you'd need 154 Wheats to have 1 lb of pure copper.
To find out a pound of coins, divide the weight of a coin into 28.35....our gram weight of an ounce, (NOT Troy weight). Then multiply that answer times 16 (for ounces)= the answer. Example: Wt of a clad dime (silver dime weighs 10% more) = 2.27 g. Divide 2.27 into 28.35 = 12.49 (dimes per oz.). Multiply 12.49 X 16 (ounces) = 200 dimes per lb (actually 199.84). Nickel -- wt 5 g. 5 into 28.35 =5.67 (nickels per ounce). Multiply 5.67 X 16 ounces= 90.72 nickels per lb.
Try the above on a quarter and half.

 

[bradley1719]

Bill, There is no chart on the net or elsewhere that I know of to show how many U S coins are in a pound. I'm somewhat familiar with weights of coins AND I like math. I've collected coins for a long, long time. A Wheat cent weighs 3.1 g (grams). There are 146 Wheat cents to a pound, but since the Wheat cent is 95% copper, you'd need 154 Wheats to have 1 lb of pure copper.
To find out a pound of coins, divide the weight of a coin into 28.35....our gram weight of an ounce, (NOT Troy weight). Then multiply that answer times 16 (for ounces)= the answer. Example: Wt of a clad dime (silver dime weighs 10% more) = 2.27 g. Divide 2.27 into 28.35 = 12.49 (dimes per oz.). Multiply 12.49 X 16 (ounces) = 200 dimes per lb (actually 199.84). Nickel -- wt 5 g. 5 into 28.35 =5.67 (nickels per ounce). Multiply 5.67 X 16 ounces= 90.72 nickels per lb.
Try the above on a quarter and half.

This would work for brand new coins. But circulated coins have some wear. Copper coins usually have less wear than silver ones do. You might need to take this into consideration depending on your situation. For example, most web sites say that there is 71.5 troy ounces in $100 face value (FV) of silver coins rather than the original 72.3392 troy ounces at the time of minting. Barbers and Walkers could be less while Kennedys and Franklins may be closer to this number. I've bought some VERY slick Walkers for their silver content. Luckily, I paid about 50% of spot for them.

You can also use the coin calculators on Coinflation.com "in reverse" to figure this out if you don't like math. You can use the Base Metal Coin Melt Calculator for pennies/nickels/dimes/etc. Just put in a guess (say $2 face value of copper pennies) and see what it says the total amount of copper is (in this case the answer is 1.3027 pounds). You can then "guess again" by moving the face value up or down until you eventually land on the weight you are looking for. In this case, decreasing the face value to $1.54 gives you a weight of 1.0031 pounds of copper and 0.0528 pounds of zinc. These calculators can make it easier because you don't have to remember any formulas or do any initial research. They also give you the amounts of other metals as well as the current market price without any additional calculations. But you may have to make multiple guesses until you land on the right answer.

Finally.... you can also do a hybrid method. On the example above, my initial guess of $2 resulted in an answer of 1.3027 pounds. I can quickly calculate a simple ratio (1 pound/1.3027 pounds = 0.7676) which when multiplied by my first guess will give me the exact next guess I need to make. This tells me that I need to multiply my first guess ($2) by 0.7676 to get 1 pound of copper. Net result? $1.54 or 154 pennies. You can see that this is easier than making multiple guesses.

You can come up with all of this yourself if you've had some basic algebra. It comes from a simple ratio formula. We know that the ratio of face value (FV) to weight for a given coin is always the same regardless of how many coins you have. So we can make the two ratios equal (ratio of guess is equal to the ratio of our final/desired outcome) and then solve for the desired face value.

(FV guess) / (weight guess) = (FV final) / (weight final). We can then solve for (FV final):

(FV Final) = ((FV guess) * (weight final)) / (weight guess) This is the formula we use along with the calculator.

Example:

I want to know how many nickels it takes to get 15 pounds of copper.

1. Go to the Base Metal Melt Value calculator on Coinflation.com
2. Select Jefferson nickel from the coin drop down. (Careful, pressing the back button on the next screen resets this back to pennies so check to be sure the right coin is selected each time).
3. Make a face value guess. It can be anything. But guessing a whole amount makes the math easier. I'll guess $10. (I could just as easily have guessed $1945.65 and the math still works out.)
4. Click the calculate button. In this case the amount of copper in $10 of nickels is 1.6535 pounds. (You should already see that 1.6535 pounds is about 1/9th of the weight I want -> 15 pounds. So we could easily guess that the final face value amount will be about 9 times higher than my initial guess resulting in a value of about $90. I could try this and I'd come out pretty close. But let's do the math anyway to get an exact amount).
5. Calculate the final face value using the ratio formula above: (FV Final) = (($10) * (15 pounds)) / (1.6535 pounds) = $90.717
6. Round the final face value to a whole number of cents that matches your denomination. For pennies, I'd round this to $90.72. For nickels I'd round to $90.75. We don't want fractional nickels.

Check your answer in the calculator: $90.75 face value of Jefferson nickels = 15.0052 pounds of copper and 5.000 pounds of nickel. Bingo! I can then determine that it takes ($90.75 / 0.05) = 1815 nickels to get 15 pounds of copper.

Pretty simple and intuitive way to use an existing calculator along with ratios to come up with the numbers you are looking for. Take a guess, see how far off you are, then either calculate the exact amount you need for your next guess or just keep guessing again until you land on the desired weight. I personally prefer the exact method.

Of course, you could calculate this all from scratch which is perfectly valid. It just requires you to go to some place like Coinflation first if you don't already know the ratio of face value to weight of all of the different base metals in a coin. And, if you want to know the amount of multiple base metals then you have to do multiple calculations.