Coin show observations

[jim4silver]

Not bitcoin but another.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/cryptocurrency-300m-dollars-stolen-bug-ether

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[cyberdan]

Are they jumping into Bitcoin?

I actually saw a bitcoin commercial two days ago. Some guy buys a cup of coffee. I think his cellphone screen showed he had .02 bitcoins and then after the purchase it showed .019_?_?_? bitcoins after buying a $2.?? cup.

There is actually a bitcoin conversion program. .02 bitcoin = $148.92 today.

 

[jim4silver]

The CME will launch Bitcoin futures next week. Now there will be a real way to "short" Bitcoin. I don't know much about Bitcoin but you could buy it then sell it. Now you can sell it without ever owning it, on the futures exchange of course.

I am guessing, but I think we will see more downside now that big $$$ can come it and short the crap out of it like they do in PMs and other commodities, etc.

They can do the opposite to of course and send it to $100K I suppose.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-set-for-cme-s-soon-to-launch-bitcoin-futures

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I remember back when people were getting rich on beanie babies. Most ended up with a bunch of worthless dolls they can't sell.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I remember back when people were getting rich on beanie babies. Most ended up with a bunch of worthless dolls they can't sell.

Beanies had a 5-year run. About the same as BC so far.

 

[Peyton Manning]

bit coin makes me think of the story about the emperor's new clothes

 

[markmopar]

I remember back when people were getting rich on beanie babies. Most ended up with a bunch of worthless dolls they can't sell.

There used to be a website called xsmuggler.com. The guy that ran it told stories of smuggling Beanie Babies into and out of Canada.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

My mom snuck a few back from Canada on a motorcycle trip up there and she felt like Daisy Duke!

 

[jim4silver]

The CME will launch Bitcoin futures next week. Now there will be a real way to "short" Bitcoin. I don't know much about Bitcoin but you could buy it then sell it. Now you can sell it without ever owning it, on the futures exchange of course.

I am guessing, but I think we will see more downside now that big $$$ can come it and short the crap out of it like they do in PMs and other commodities, etc.

They can do the opposite to of course and send it to $100K I suppose.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-set-for-cme-s-soon-to-launch-bitcoin-futures

Why I am glad to see Bitcoin fall? Is it schadenfreude? I actually think bitcoin and other cryptos take money away from PM investments to some degree.

I was at the coin store a week ago and a lady was selling a large amount of gold. She walked out with her check beaming how she was going to put it into bitcoin. I imagine many folks have done similar (second mortgage to gamble with, etc). At this time the price is approx. $12,800.

Such massive drops in price in today's world perhaps wouldn't have been possible without bitcoin futures markets in my opinion. Just like they are used against PMs I suppose.

https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/bitcoin

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Speaking of beanie babies and cryptos, I think silver was less than $4 at that time? Around 91 or 92? I wish I was stacking back then!!!

 

[jim4silver]

I finished up a three day coin show not too long ago and thought I would give an update. I have been doing shows for the past few years, and this one had the lowest turn out yet. Each year the turn out gets less and less. With the price of silver/gold down (relatively speaking), I was not surprised about the low turn out this time.

I did OK though because I brought a bunch of the stuff that always sells well for me at shows. Such as pretty silver coins with animals of all types, hologram coins, butterflies, gold gilded silver coins, etc. All gov issued foreign stuff usually low mintage with boxes and coa (most of the time) which is what I like the best when I can get them for low premiums (about the same premiums as for a US silver eagle per oz or less for sterling coins).

The dealers who sell to me for wholesale prices on this stuff don't sell on ebay so they just like to flip stuff like this when it comes in. Much of it retails for much higher than its melt value. But as they say, "finding a buyer....". I don't do ebay, never have. My only chance to "sell high" is at the shows.

Over the past year I have focused my buying on these types of coins when I can get them cheap and it has paid off. Such as the 4 coin sets (50 cent coins) from Canada that feature dogs, cats, birds of prey, whales, etc from the late 90s. Those sell out each show. I actually don't discount those they go so fast. Also several cool Australia animal series silver coins with great proof strikes did well this time. My Cook Islands coins I had sold great too.

A change I did with this show with success was not to use ebay to figure my sale prices. Ebay has become a complete buyer's market on semi numismatic cool silver so those "sold" prices are generally too low. For this show I used retail prices I found online (they seemed high to me) and I discounted my coins 15 percent or so for coins that sold for double their melt value or higher.

I discovered most buyers at these shows aren't hard core stackers who study the web for prices. Instead they seem to check retail sites for what the price is or should be. A couple of buyers even commented how good my price was on the coin they bought. (I get this stuff cheap so I'm not too greedy).

When silver was higher I would see far more stackers coming to the shows buying rolls of coins at a time from me and asking about popular coins like prospectors, Libertads, Pandas, etc. Didn't get many customers interested in such regular gov bullion coins this time (except for Kooks and Koalas, I did sell some of those).

Probably more than 3/4 of my customers didn't know what the coin was that they were buying (they had never seen before). Most asked "what is that one?" before purchasing.

I have also found that most of these show buyers didn't know what milk spots were. A few Somali Elephant coins and some cool hologram coins from Canada had a couple of small spots and I pointed them out but the buyers didn't care at all which surprised me a bit.

It takes much time and effort to prepare for and do these shows. If silver stays this low or goes lower I won't do any more shows - until it goes back up. The turn out will not increase until there is more excitement about silver/gold and that doesn't happen with falling prices (even though it should - buy low).

Jim

 

[A2coins]

Great post I love to learn these things!!!!!

 

[Mackaydon]

Jim, yes, milk spots are 'annoying'--at a minimum. But while using a white eraser on bullion coins does eliminate the spots, it does create ( I agree) microscopic scratch marks. On bullion coins I could care less; on 'regular' coins, I would not use an eraser.
Don....
PS: Been told a white eraser also works on fingerprints; again, but not to be used on real coins, only on bullion coins.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

That's interesting about the low turn out at coin shows lately. If I had any around me I'd be on that because I would think there would be deals to be had.
Much like a good gun show and I've walked out of a few gun shows with much less money and more guns because those guys want to sell guns hehe.
One thing I have noticed on the other end is the crazy premiums since spot went down.
I work all over the state 8 months of the year so I hit pawn shops and coin shops when I can on early days. One thing I've really noticed is the rise in premiums and I've heard it mentioned before here somewhere.
Even with spot dropping a few bucks, prices haven't changed much and they just raise the premium a few bucks and they are stuck there.
This summer I've left shops with my money in hand more than usual because they didn't want to negotiate whatsoever and I also have my bottom line as any stacker does. Sometimes they may be turning down 500 or a thou and I tell them that but why would I pay more when I can order whatever I want for online in 5 minutes flat from a hotel. I know those guys aren't paying spot for any of that stuff and if they wont negotiate to a fair price I take my wad of cash to the next guy until someone wants it.
I've had it happen over and over and it may be that I'm a stranger there and they dont know me from Joe Schmoe, or it's another reason but I can figure it out.
Sometimes the prices are ridiculous....$25-40 ea for circulated (almost cull) peace and morgans straight out of a ziploc....2x spot for 1 oz poured bars, things like that, and no less.
$25 for the Englehard Prospector rounds and still big premiums on Eagles right now.
I've never understood premiums on Eagles anyway since they are all the same and made by the millions...wheres the value?
For most stackers like me id be more inclined to order online because they are all about moving inventory hand over fist for the lowest prices, or have a good local dealer that has the hook up.
There's no coin shows within half a days drive for me like I said but I'd like to go to one someday.

 

[fistfulladirt]

That's interesting about the low turn out at coin shows lately. If I had any around me I'd be on that because I would think there would be deals to be had.

For most stackers like me id be more inclined to order online because they are all about moving inventory hand over fist for the lowest prices, or have a good local dealer that has the hook up.

Please excuse me for chopping up your post Johnnybravo-

I hate to say it, but I rarely see deals at the local show, I’ve been to a half dozen in the last three years. Even their junk prices are higher than online. My LCS occasionally will match the junk silver online price, but he also lets me cherry pick. I’ve pointed out to a couple dealers at the show that their bullion prices are 10-20% higher than for what I can get online, and they act surprised. I don’t know it this is genuine or not, but a lot of these guys seem old-school. Still, I like the shows if it’s just to talk to dealers and see all the variety. I do occasionally make purchases.

 

[dognose]

interesting column.

I agree with the statement about the sellers buying and selling among themselves. It happens at a lot of the shows i have attended for relics. Its common for Friday, the setup day to be set aside not for the general public but for the dealers only.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Oh I assumed the coin shows were like the gun shows but maybe not. Probably wouldn't be many deals there if prices were higher I guess.

 

[jim4silver]

I can only speak for the shows I've done. There is always a lot of dealer to dealer buying/selling. Many dealers come from out of state to the shows and all the "real dealers" (not including myself in that) seem to know each other and have been doing business with each other for years. There are always "dealer only" hours, such as the first hour of each show day and a half day "dealer set up day" on the first day of the show. People can buy a special "badge" that lets them in during dealer only hours even though they didn't buy a table and aren't real dealers in any way. This can be worth it if you are a collector and looking for certain higher level items. Usually a dealer will sell for a bit less to another "dealer", or anyone wearing one of the special "badges".

Many out of town dealers send buyers (called runners or program buyers) who get these badges but don't have a table. They walk around the bourse floor with those suitcases on wheels and ask if you have certain items. These guys generally pay better than average wholesale because their company retails the stuff at higher levels. These runners are only looking for a specific type of coin. Such as GSA dollars, high graded state half dollars, coins with ships/boats, etc.

I don't think I've ever seen customers buying and selling from each other though, like you might get at a gun show where people walk around with a rifle with a "for sale" sign on it, etc.

When silver prices were better I did great with the dealers, but at this last show they didn't want to pay me much because they don't have the same demand from their customers at these price levels (I was told this several times, didn't hear it in past shows so much). Many of the dealers go from state to state doing shows, so they don't need to discount their stuff much because they can take it to the next show if it doesn't sell here, etc.

For example, I saw dealers selling cool foreign stuff like Australia series 1 silver lunars for $90-$100+ depending on the coin. I asked them how cheap they would sell to me (wearing my dealer badge) and they knocked off maybe $10. I pay $30 to $35 tops for the series 1 lunars locally when I can get them and only if they are pristine. I sold a couple of mine at the show for $75-$80 and the buyers seemed happy.

There are some out of town dealers that have a local following, and from the minute the show opens they have buyers sitting at their tables looking thru show boxes of coins (for hours at a time). Some of the dealers set up elaborate security systems with cameras with sound recording on tripods 6 ft high aiming down at the buyers at their tables, etc. Some of these dealers bring millions of $$$ worth of stuff to sell and have to be careful.

Many of the out of town dealers specialize in certain coins and have inventory you could never find locally. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those dealers with a following. However I have had some "customers" that come to every show and have bought from me each time because they like the foreign stuff. I have a couple of them that I will save certain types of items for because they pay well.

PS It's kind of funny but a couple of the "real dealers" I've encountered over the years don't like people like me selling at the shows. They call "dealers" without a store "vest pocket dealers". I guess they don't like us because we don't have overhead like they do and can sell cheaper than those with a store and higher expenses? Such dealers won't say that directly to your face but they act kind of snotty (worse than the average snotty coin dealer which is so common) and might make little digs or comments when you try to do business with them. One year such a dealer came by my table and was asking prices. I guess he thought my prices were too low and when he found out I didn't have a store/business said "You can sell cheap like that since you aren't a real coin dealer".....

Jim

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Haha that's funny people associate a store front with such things but if it saves you money on the long end, that's the key.
It sounds like you've got it figured out and you make it work and keep it simple and you have a few regular customers.

Until we receive some trust fund from a long lost uncle, the dreams of owning a big store front between Target and Home Depot are far away for most of us hehe.
You're doing it the sustainable way if you ask me.
It should pay for itself and for your time with what you need from it and if it does then you're a coin dealer by any means....your dealing coins as a small business either way.