Bronze Age shipwreck found off Devon coast...
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Oroblanco
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Thank you for posting this, first Bronze Age shipwreck found near Britain! 
Peerless67
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Archies jumping to conclusions IMO, Cornwall had 1000s of bronze age settlements. All were mining tin & copper. The safest way to have moved from cornwall towards Dover would have been by sea along the coast line.
There would have been zero need to travel to mainland Europe to get either tin or copper.
Cornwall has a big history of tin mining, tin mines were busy right into the 20th century, infact many of the Cornish gold and tin miners later became California 49ers.
Had you have been trading copper and tin from cornwall to say somewhere along the south coast the safest route avoiding places like Bodmin moor would have been to hug the coast line.
Back then the A303 which runs from london to lands end and passes stone henge and through Bodmin moor was not there. The moor had 1000s of bronze age settlements.
In any case these archies are making assumptions about the size of the boat used, it could have been 6ft long and had 2 guys in it and simply sunk close to the shore line.
If they can show a single reason that Bronze age Britons would have needed to bring copper and tin from Europe I will listen.
Nonetheless it is a bronze age wreck so in that respect it is interesting in itself and really does not require the completely unproven atlantic/channel crossing story involved.
Maybe the bronze age britons were not mining tin in cornwall after all, perhaps they were building the first Euro tunnel
There would have been zero need to travel to mainland Europe to get either tin or copper.
Cornwall has a big history of tin mining, tin mines were busy right into the 20th century, infact many of the Cornish gold and tin miners later became California 49ers.
Had you have been trading copper and tin from cornwall to say somewhere along the south coast the safest route avoiding places like Bodmin moor would have been to hug the coast line.
Back then the A303 which runs from london to lands end and passes stone henge and through Bodmin moor was not there. The moor had 1000s of bronze age settlements.
In any case these archies are making assumptions about the size of the boat used, it could have been 6ft long and had 2 guys in it and simply sunk close to the shore line.
If they can show a single reason that Bronze age Britons would have needed to bring copper and tin from Europe I will listen.
Nonetheless it is a bronze age wreck so in that respect it is interesting in itself and really does not require the completely unproven atlantic/channel crossing story involved.
Maybe the bronze age britons were not mining tin in cornwall after all, perhaps they were building the first Euro tunnel
Peerless67
Hero Member
Alexandre said:
Please tell us why you are not certain about the copper
Peerless67 said:
I dont have all the data present (it must be old age settling in) but I do remember that Britain started to produce cast iron cannons, faster and earlier than anyone else, in the 16th and 17th centuries because - notwhistanding the fact that they were cheaper to make - they had abundant supplies of iron (the same happened with Sweden) and were not that rich in copper.
Also, copper was more readily available in Antiquity in Iberia - being found in the so called "iron hats" of the Southeast Iberia (Andalucia, in Spain) and Alentejo, in Portugal) together with plenty of silver. That's also why you find Romans all around the territory and why you had the phoenician settlements/trading posts at Gadir, Castro Marim, Cerro Velho, Almada, Santa Olaia, etc.
Oroblanco
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Peerless wrote
Speculating of course, but as money perhaps for trade with the Britons. Coins were not invented (in that area anyway) and metal ingots were sometimes used for trade, one archaeologist proposed the shape suggests their main use as money - to buy leather hides, hence the 'oxhide' shape.
I think they <archaeologists> are still speculating that the copper and tin were being brought TO the Britons too, when it is just as possible they were hauling them away IMHO. As far as I know, this is the first Bronze age shipwreck (as opposed to boat-wreck) found close to the British isles, I would bet that proverbial silver dollar to the Krispy Kreme there are others which have not been discovered yet.
Oroblanco
Speculating of course, but as money perhaps for trade with the Britons. Coins were not invented (in that area anyway) and metal ingots were sometimes used for trade, one archaeologist proposed the shape suggests their main use as money - to buy leather hides, hence the 'oxhide' shape.
I think they <archaeologists> are still speculating that the copper and tin were being brought TO the Britons too, when it is just as possible they were hauling them away IMHO. As far as I know, this is the first Bronze age shipwreck (as opposed to boat-wreck) found close to the British isles, I would bet that proverbial silver dollar to the Krispy Kreme there are others which have not been discovered yet.
Oroblanco
From another list:
"I have now watched the piece from BBC SW Spotlight shown earlier this evening in which two archaeologists from the "dig" made it clear that there was no evidence to suggest where the vessel had come from or where it was going or whether it was simply involved in coastal trade, but that some of the artifacts suggest that the goods may well have originated from distant parts and others from Cornwall..
They made it clear that they were particularly pleased to find the tin and copper ingots on the wreck, for the first time in UK waters, as
they went a long way to confirming the use of the term "Tin Isle," i.e. that they originated in Cornwall, and that the artifacts may well
reflect the fact that the occupants of the vessel were involved in a trading mission which may have originated much further afield say with
Brittany or even the Mediterranean and stated that some of the 300 artifacts were beautifully worked and included gold braid and other
items, which demonstrated the high level of skills which were available in those days.
So am not sure where the newspaper might have got its story ?"
"I have now watched the piece from BBC SW Spotlight shown earlier this evening in which two archaeologists from the "dig" made it clear that there was no evidence to suggest where the vessel had come from or where it was going or whether it was simply involved in coastal trade, but that some of the artifacts suggest that the goods may well have originated from distant parts and others from Cornwall..
They made it clear that they were particularly pleased to find the tin and copper ingots on the wreck, for the first time in UK waters, as
they went a long way to confirming the use of the term "Tin Isle," i.e. that they originated in Cornwall, and that the artifacts may well
reflect the fact that the occupants of the vessel were involved in a trading mission which may have originated much further afield say with
Brittany or even the Mediterranean and stated that some of the 300 artifacts were beautifully worked and included gold braid and other
items, which demonstrated the high level of skills which were available in those days.
So am not sure where the newspaper might have got its story ?"
Peerless67
Hero Member
Again tin, copper and gold were availiable in briton in sufficient quantity, never mind the Bronze age even in the stone age as was the case with the items found in the Amesbury Archer's grave, Believed to have been present when stone henge was built.
It is a massive jump to find some tin and copper ingots and a gold item on the sea bed very close to the shore, and turn that into an atlantic/channel crossing.
Alex, you never really answered my question in much the same way when you made the quote about the milled coins being availiable in the 18th century.
Copper was readily availiable in britain and was being mined in britain during and before the bronze age. Your reply really did not show anything except that these materials were availiable elsewhere. Your other reply mentions the gold braid found. If you do a little search you will see that such items were found in stone age graves in britain, the Amesbury Archer being the best example.
There is no evidence of any ship and a boat is far more likely. As you say lets wait for the spectral analysis (hopefully independent)
It is a massive jump to find some tin and copper ingots and a gold item on the sea bed very close to the shore, and turn that into an atlantic/channel crossing.
Alex, you never really answered my question in much the same way when you made the quote about the milled coins being availiable in the 18th century.
Copper was readily availiable in britain and was being mined in britain during and before the bronze age. Your reply really did not show anything except that these materials were availiable elsewhere. Your other reply mentions the gold braid found. If you do a little search you will see that such items were found in stone age graves in britain, the Amesbury Archer being the best example.
There is no evidence of any ship and a boat is far more likely. As you say lets wait for the spectral analysis (hopefully independent)
Peerless67 said:
Peerless, I only speak about what I know of. The Bronze Age in Britain is not one of my strongest points. As I said, in order to reply to you in a more substantiated way, I would have to hit all my books and archives papers - right now, due to time constraints, that wont be possible. As I said, it was my "impression"...
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