A strange coin found by Haitian fisherman on a beach - what is it?

[Digger54]

Re: Three Ts

Any chance that the three Ts are a reference to three Islands with Ts in them and that the center island is the emphasis?

 

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[TheRandyMan]

Mouse over both sides

http://compare.ebay.com/like/260764...ebac172&itemid=260764979294&ff4=263602_324952

http://www.snible.org/coins/hn/aegina.html

Nice try...but I just do not see the "similarity" other than the fact that they both have a turtle on them. It is not the same base coin and the turtles are dramatically different in construction and appearance. The turtle with the Ts on it appears to be a unique creation. There are multiple asymmetries that seem to belie a definite purpose in their shapes...for me, that spells special direction and guidance. In the link I posted above connected with turtles being a treasure sign, it was common to put the details of the treasure location on the turtle's back.

I would not discount LSMorgan's theory of a special badge. In that case, however, there should be more than one wandering around the Caribbean and one would think they would have come to light before now as their special construction would stand out like a sore thumb.

This needs more exposure and attention. Spread the word!

 

[Donovan]

If you will look at the logo of the Third Turtle inn at Provo in the Turks and Caicos the image on the coin is exact. Perhaps it is a modern promotional piece that was lost, then found again by the fishermen.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Great clue Don!

I could not find larger images.

By the way, from what I have just read, The Third Turtle Inn and Provo was quite a neat place back in the 60's and 70's.

Tom

 

[TheRandyMan]

Here is a picture of the old Turtle Club Inn.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohgpics/4923865426/in/photostream/

Here is a shot of the logo for the current owners.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohgpics/4923152195/in/photostream/

Not quite the same as the turtle on the coin, but its a new logo (?) maybe?

You may have to hit CTRL + to enlarge the picture to see the logo well.

 

[TheRandyMan]

Hmm... here is another shot of the logo I found.

http://thirdturtleclub.rockresorts.com/

 

[TheRandyMan]

http://www.behance.net/BeverlyKitchens/frame/384996

Finally found the one you found...lol.

Does appear to be a perfect match....sigh...and I thought we might have really had something there...

 

[LM]

Bummer.
Still, finding something like that would get anyone's heart beating

 

[Bobadilla]

Hi Guys,

Thanks all for your opinions and valuable investigations. That´s why this Forum is so great!

The logo of "The Third Turtle" Club seems to be realy identical to the turtle casting on the coin. I do not know the value of one original coin of Piece of Eight back in the 60´s, maybe it was not worth too much and therefore the owners of the Club made these "credentials" for some of their members using the original coins. In this case I really do not understand why the casting is so rough, especially form and rest of the metal around the turtle and the primitive engraving of the T´s. I think that it was, no doubt, sufficient technology knowlege in jewelry business at those time to manufacture perfect item. This piece looks like made "on knee". The same would be in case of "promotional piece". Only that it was made like that on purpose, as it would have looked like from 17th century.....

I must say I like the opinion of LSMorgan about some kind of credentials of some society, group or even Club members. It makes me logic. The last question I would have is, if somebody knows who designed the logo for this Third Turtle Club? Would not be possible that somebody could see it on the similar coin that my friend had in hands and based on that he used the design for his future club.....?
Just a thought.....

Regards to all,
Lobo

 

[Diver_Down]

The original Third Turtle Club has changed ownership and has since shut down. There is an effort to redevelop under the old name, currently. The Third Turtle Club was named after the Two Turtles Inn on Exuma. The owner owned both and named it in the hopes that visitors would make the connection. Lobo, you have an interesting idea in that back in the 60's when the Third Turtle Club was built, there could be the possibility that the logo was derived from a similar coin that owner seen back then. It would be a challenge to locate stakeholders of the original venture and speak with them regarding the logo's inspiration.

For some light reading:
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20080428151321/http://www.thirdturtleclub.com/www/story.asp

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Diver_Down,

Thanks for the valuable information about The Third Turtle Club. I feel that there is still lot of mysteries and untold stories behind this strange coin/medallion. I am taking this coin and its back design as a personal challenge now! The more I am looking at the photo of the turtle, the more I am sure that it is no promotional piece or modern item. Ss a promotional piece is pretty ugly and roughly casted, it makes me no sense. As a credential or some mystery sign? Could be. It seems really not to be casted much later than the original coin was minted, I cannot be sure without having this coin in my hands, of course, just an opinion after closer examination of the photo. Therefore, I will do my best to try to locate the "mystery" fisherman and go and see him and the coin as well. I will try to pick up the whole story of the discovery of this coin from him. At the same time I will try to locate the original owners and shareholders of the Third Turtle Club to find out where did they take the logo from..... Any help in my personal quest will be highly appreciated. Just imagine that the coin was really some kind of old "secret society" credentials or, even better, some kind of treasure map. So, my friends, I have started treasure quest and everybody is welcome on board! The share of the booty will be the same as in old times according to the pirate´s law - one share for the participants, two shares for the Captain (I am the Captain, of course....).

Regards to all mates and partners,
Lobo

 

[stevemc]

Lobo, you asked how much an 8 reale cob was worth back in the 60s. My dad dealt with Real 8 Co, and did a lot of dealing with them from the beginning through to about the early 80s. I remember my dad in the middle of a cob cleaning session at home in the late 60s maybe early 70s, (this was an at least every month thing) and I asked him what these were worth, and he told me they (Real 8) would pay the workers a cob-normal worn but readable 8 reale cob, and it would be equal to $25. I assume that he traded old onion bottles and Wisteberg bottles for cobs at that rate of trade. I shuttled lots of shipwreck salvage items/bottles over to the Museum of Sunken Treasure in Cocoa Beach/Canaveral in the early 70s, and brought back lots of cobs. So, a cob in the late 60s was equal to about $25. But that price was at the source, and it would go up from there.

 

[TheRandyMan]

Hello Diver_Down,

Thanks for the valuable information about The Third Turtle Club. I feel that there is still lot of mysteries and untold stories behind this strange coin/medallion. I am taking this coin and its back design as a personal challenge now! The more I am looking at the photo of the turtle, the more I am sure that it is no promotional piece or modern item. Ss a promotional piece is pretty ugly and roughly casted, it makes me no sense. As a credential or some mystery sign? Could be. It seems really not to be casted much later than the original coin was minted, I cannot be sure without having this coin in my hands, of course, just an opinion after closer examination of the photo. Therefore, I will do my best to try to locate the "mystery" fisherman and go and see him and the coin as well. I will try to pick up the whole story of the discovery of this coin from him. At the same time I will try to locate the original owners and shareholders of the Third Turtle Club to find out where did they take the logo from..... Any help in my personal quest will be highly appreciated. Just imagine that the coin was really some kind of old "secret society" credentials or, even better, some kind of treasure map. So, my friends, I have started treasure quest and everybody is welcome on board! The share of the booty will be the same as in old times according to the pirate´s law - one share for the participants, two shares for the Captain (I am the Captain, of course....).

Ahoy Cap'n!

Aye...an here's hoping that your quest is a goodun! Argggghhh....!!

Regards to all mates and partners,
Lobo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

In Robert Nesmith's first-rate Dig for Pirate Treasure (New York: 1958) there are several pages of coin photos and current market prices. Based on these, I would agree that the subject coin was probably a $25 piece (pun intended!) in the mid-1960's.

Dr. Sedwick, Sr. wrote me that he thought a few of the coins in these photos were probably counterfeits. Without appearing to speak for him, I'm guessing those were "contemporary" and not modern fakes.

There's a long tradition of using coins for jewerly. During the 19th Century one side of the coin would be ground flat, then engraved as a "love token." Some of these are beautiful.

I think this coin is a nice promotional item for that resort - a neat souvenir.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Digger54]

Inflation?

I seem to recall gas was around 29 cents to the gallon in the early to mid 60s. At today's gas prices that would create a factor of 15X.

15 times $25 = $375.

What would you speculate the average 60s coin at $25 would bring on today's market, rarety aside?

Just curious how the treasure coins are keeping up with inflation.

Of course everything is, as the market will bear.

 

[stevemc]

That $25 value was at the finders place, and the next person would boost the price some, and so on, and I would assume at a retail store it would be $50 or more dollars back then. They really didnt go up much until the Atocha mother load was found and they really jacked the price way up, out into outer space. Plus they ruined all those Atocha cobs by tumbling them with needle bearings, instead of just cleaning them. And still sold a pile of them for super inflated prices. Sorry to get way off track there.

 

[Donovan]

Possibly the best known promotion using shipwreck coins was by American Express. Amex used the Lucaya Beach Hotel treasure finds made by Jack Slack. They bought most of the find for a flat low rate, then made special presentation boxes and jewelry that were used to promote some of the first Amex gold cards.
One sided coins were used for one sided jewelry, things like money clips and belt buckles come to mind. Amex had what was considered at the time to have outrageous high prices. Prices that were far above what coin dealers said they were worth. Remember, a coin dealers goal is to buy as low as possible then sell as high as possible. Amex blew the dealers away with their high prices. Amex reasoned that they were not selling to collectors but to people who could afford the best and were willing to pay for it. Authenticity certificates, presentation boxes and jewelry plus the coin and a high price were concepts far beyond that of the coin dealers and their traditional markets at that time. Amex had the ability to market in a way that no coin dealer could touch.
While researching coins from Atocha, we realized that the Lucaya finds were similar in age and limited quantity ( in 1975 )....why not sell at the same prices that Amex had established. After all, Amex had sold out at their prices and not at a price dictated by someone else. Why couldn't we do the same thing ? Naturally the coin dealers went nuts again but the fact was, they were not our market.
Over the years I have seen authentic as well as replica coins and jewelry used as promotions.... Disney, Atlantis resorts, Franklin mint and others.
Marketing in new ways is fun and is only limited by imagination.

 

[ivan salis]

my vote -- it is a --The Third Turtle club coin -- what with the triple capital T 's seems like a dead giveaway as a club promo piece of some sort * --still a way cool interesting find -- I'd love to have one myself. -- since I like cool and interesting and "differant" things --I just have to wonder if it was a real coin with the turtle logo added or a total "mock up piece" -- if a real coin wonder where it originally came from ? which shipwreck if any .

 

[Old Bookaroo]

IS: I think it would have been helpful to see a photograph of the edge. I'm in agreement with the idea that it's a genuine piece of eight with the turtle and silver under it welded to the coin. Perhaps the coin was polished flat first?

Again - a shot of the edge might clear it up. Or, not...

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello everybody,

My friend goes back to Haiti on a business trip in these days again. He promised me to try to locate "his" fisherman if he has time, and take other pictures of the coin, if the fisherman still has it. So let's wait, I am really curious. I still think that the reverse part of the coin with welded turtle is too ugly and too roughly made to be some kind of a gift or promotional item of any business or resort, but....who knows.....

Regards to all,
Lobo