Put away your metal detectors sheeple

[Tom_in_CA]

so what's to stop you all from a) steering clear of obvious historic monuments and shipwreck treasure beaches, that are probably already off-limits anyhow and b) merely looking for and finding clad and jewelry? Afterall, you're *only* finding modern coins, right? Does some stand their with a pocket calculator, looking over your shoulder, to see what's older than 1961, or 1911, or whatever?

 

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[Au_Dreamers]

While Tom is mostly likely right in the idea that it just makes Archaeological sites off limits, there are a few things to consider. One, would be, what makes a site deemed archaeological? And second, what sites does this make off limits to begin with? Here is an idea...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Archaeological_sites_in_Florida This list 133 sites that would be off limits, if you read them, you will see that it includes, entire parks, cities, and beaches. Just using the terms in the bill they could out law metal detecting on a large portion of Florida, which is pretty much a given based on the history of Florida. And one one of the main reasons Metal detecting is a large hobby in Florida compared to many other states.

The fact is, there are things to find, and the Government doesn't want a hobbyist to be the ones to find them, they want control of what there is to be found.

and if they use Oregon's definition it could be "an official archaeological site is defined when it has 10 or more artifacts that are 75 years or older located in a concentrated geographic area" which would pretty much cover Florida.

I wonder what their definition of a concentrated geographic area is?

 

[Twisted One]

Every state has a definition, and that is moot because we are talking Florida, so it is the only definition that would matter. And as much as I can find even if there is a concentration of historic items, it still would need a legal filing before it is declared a archaeological site. So if you found several historic items there and reported it, it would still be open to hunt until that paper work was filled out and filed. If you found said items, and did not report it, would you be breaking the law?

 

[ScubaFinder]

Whats to stop us from steering clear of the treasure beaches? Are you listening to yourself? That's WHY we go to the beaches, because there is treasure there. They have been trying to take away our rights here for decades, and it's always by trying to sneak through a BS piece of legislation like the one you just read. If you can't see all the open loopholes they left in there to allow them to "interpret" the bill however they see fit, then you need to open your eyes a bit wider my friend. This isn't that hard to see through Tom, and we here in Florida have seen it before.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

so what's to stop you all from a) steering clear of obvious historic monuments and shipwreck treasure beaches, that are probably already off-limits anyhow and b) merely looking for and finding clad and jewelry? Afterall, you're *only* finding modern coins, right? Does some stand their with a pocket calculator, looking over your shoulder, to see what's older than 1961, or 1911, or whatever?

Well the 1715 Fleet beaches are world renowned for their treasure. Practically all of FL has shipwreck treasure beaches.

Excuse me if I use the wrong current terminology... Florida Marine Patrol sets up dock inspections and roadblocks to check for lobster violations. They will sit at marinas and boat ramps to check any and all boats for fishing violations and vessel violations. I would not put it past government entities to hire an "officer" to police beaches for this or rule 1A-31 violations.

Heck a few decades ago the city of Dover, DE decided they wanted more revenue so they instituted a vending/arcade machine license. With the law of the fees and sticker that would be required they created the position a "sticker" inspector. It probably was all the result of someone's cousin needed a good Govt job.

 

[Dell Winders]

Several years ago, Archies did get a bill passed that made it unlawful to metal detect on Florida beaches. The protest was so strong by Metal Detectorist, that it was repealed within 3 weeks. Dell

 

[Twisted One]

Several years ago, Archies did get a bill passed that made it unlawful to metal detect on Florida beaches. The protest was so strong by Metal Detectorist, that it was repealed within 3 weeks. Dell

That is awesome news, lets hope a lot of them are still around that will protest it!

 

[Twisted One]

I think my major concern for this would be the same as the gun laws. They set up a bill that only outlaws some minor portion of guns, and effects very few people. A year later they pass a bill that alongside the previous bill increasingly limits the use of firearms, another year, another bill...

Pretty soon you can't own a gun over .22 caliber that hold more than 4 rounds, or has a sight capable of targeting something further than you can see with your naked eye, and must have a trigger lock on it up until the time you are in need of the weapon, but the key to the trigger guard must be kept in a lock box more than 100 yards from the weapon, while the ammo must be stored in a separate lock box in another country.

A single law in itself may seem innocent, and unobtrusive, but combined with other laws, it can quickly add up to a hobby destroying entity.
So while this bill in itself doesn't seem that threatening to me, especially since I don't live in Florida, how long before it adds up to something more serious, and goes beyond Florida?

In my opinion it needs to be fought, and fought hard. Even if it doesn't seem like a big deal now, it will eventually.

 

[FISHEYE]

I got to thinking about if this bill does get passed.Florida state will be the losers.Anything historic found will never be known.All gold and silver will be melted down for its melt value which right now is very high.The "i found it on the beach or land comment" will still work as we now say it for another state that doesnt have this bill.Items can still be sold on ebay or wherever its just they were never found in florida.It will still be legal to MD.Just never have any of your finds on you if the authorities show up.Its too easy to rebury them where you can get them later.Ride a bicycle to where ever you go to MD.And never ever post photos of your most recent finds anywhere on the net.I think they want everyone to become pirates.

 

[aquanut]

For those who need enlightenment,
As soon as we find something and report it to the sate to obtain a permit, the state denies the permit on the grounds that we were exploring illegally. Tells us we're to consider ourselves lucky we don't get arrested and then confiscates what we found, afterwards, makes the area that we found it in OFF LIMITS. This has happened more and more.
BTW Senator Gaetz sent this reply:


Dear Mr. Redman,

Thanks very much for writing me regarding Senate Bill 868, Archaeological Sites and Specimens, sponsored by Senator Alan Hays (R-Umatilla). I greatly appreciate you writing and sharing with me your views on this legislation.

As you may know, Senate Bill 868 passed unanimously in the Government Oversight and Accountability Senate Committee and is now waiting to be heard in the Budget Subcommittee on Transportation, Tourism, Economic Development, a committee on which I sit. I will certainly keep your views in mind when it comes before this committee.

Again, thanks for writing me. Your comments, criticisms and guidance help me be a better Senator for Northwest Florida.

Respectfully,

Senator Don Gaetz

 

[Dell Winders]

Metal detector clubs around the country when united in a common cause can be a powerful influence. Metal detector manufacturers, and distributors are going to be financially affected, as well as Florida's tourist destination image by restraints on Treasure hunting. These ivory tower jackals are robbing Florida residents of their jobs and income with these ridiculous bills.

"STUPID IS, AS STUPID DOES" Dell

 

[signumops]

Here, by the way are our 'friends' in the Florida senate who voted unanimously to send the bill forward...

Yea
X Benacquisto
X Bogdanoff
X Dean
X Flores
X Garcia
X Latvala
X Margolis
X Montford
X Wise
X Siplin, VICE CHAIR
X Ring, CHAIR

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"........afterwards, makes the area that we found it in OFF LIMITS".

Wait, I thought the areas are off limits BEFORE, not "afterwards"? Or are you referring to the way things are now, before the potential passage of the pending bill?

Please clarify.

 

[signumops]

Hey Aquanut:
Here is the listing of the senators on the Transportation committee:

Benacquisto, Chair
Margolis, Vice Chair
Alexander
Bennett
Bogdanoff
Bullard
Dean
Diaz de la Portilla
Evers
Fasano
Gaetz
Gibson
Latvala
Norman
Sachs
Smith
Sobel

I will put together their email strips... some are vague, like Smith for example. Working on it.


Same list from previously. Here...

[mod]Link Removed caused Glitch[/mod]

 

[hobbit]

Here is the definition of "State Sovereignty Submerged Lands" from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection website:
Sovereignty Submerged Lands

Sovereignty submerged lands include, but are not limited to, tidal lands, islands, sandbars, shallow banks and lands waterward of the ordinary or mean high water line, beneath navigable fresh water or beneath tidally-influenced waters.

The revised bill clearly states that is illegial to remove or attempt to remove any "archaeological specimen" from said lands.

THIS BILL MAKES IT ILLEGAL TO TAKE OR ATTEMPT TO TAKE A COB FROM THE BEACH. PERIOD. What happens if you are detecting for modern jewlery and a cob comes up in your scoop? If everyone out there is not scared S..TLESS by this bill, you ought to be.

 

[aquanut]

Tom,
I said simply, once you tell the state where you found an artifact, they somehow make that area off limits to treasure hunters.
An example of this happened when one fisherman brought up an olive jar and asked the state for a permit to search and salvage an offshore site.
They confiscated the jar and told him he had broken the law by bringing the jar to the surface in his net. Now since he had broken the law,
they weren't going to issue him a permit. That site is now OFF LIMITS to any treasure salvor, only the state or state approved School or
Not For Profit organization is allowed to dive there. This is just one example, there are many more. The handful of people in the bureau
have not issued a new salvage permit in about the past 20 years. This legislation is another move to ensure the demise of treasure throughout the state.
Aquanut

 

[Smudge]

Aquanut is right.

It doesn't even have to be an archaeological site.

If you even try to remove a specimen, you're breaking the law.

So if you find a Spanish cob on the beach, you're breaking the law.

It's insane.

 

[cornelis 816]

Yes you guys are screwed , and you let it happen . Any fight left in you guys , or is it just talk ? Cornelius

 

[Smudge]

Ok, here is what I wrote:

"I am writing you regarding SR 868, which is slated to be passed very soon.

Please do what you can to oppose it.

Under this new law, if a someone swinging a metal detector on beach
(a hobby with attracts THOUSANDS of tourists a year to Florida)
finds anything that can be interpreted as an artifact, even in areas not designed as an archaeological site,
they would be guilty of breaking the law.

To put it simply, that strikes me as absolutely ludicrous.

While I respect the need to protect archaeological sites, this bill is so draconian and overreaching in its scope,
it makes me question this state's commitment to smaller, less invasive government.

Not to mention the chilling effect this bill will have on a significant
number of tourists who flock to our beaches every year and keep our local businesses afloat.

I hope you can use your considerable influence to block this bill until it can be revised to something far more reasonable."

 

[signumops]

That's a pretty good all round retort!