The Abbey Bee

[ECS]

Where did the name Abbey Bee come from? Was there ever an actual known boat with that name or did someone just say there was?

...and that is a valid question,and if only the anchor was recovered,how was the schooner's identification made? How was the schooner linked to David Levy Yulee? How was it established it carried 20 million in CSA gold?Who claimed the ABBEY BEE was pursued and sunk by the USS SAGAMORE,a Union ship that was not in the Gulf,April 1865.How did the event date of April 1865 come about?
It seems that someone put random pieces together to create a story to sell an anchor that was found-the gold angel stature that fell from the net was a good embellishment to the tale.
Remember,during April 1865,Richmond fell,Lee surrendered,and Davis and the CSA cabinet were on the run,including Sec of State Judah P Benjamin(Yullee's cousin),who coordinated the CSA blockade running activities.As note in one of the links provided,the Union were expecting Davis and Benjamin to escape,but as it is known,that never happened.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Salvor6]

Good questions ECS. I have a one more. If the USS Sagamore was not in the Gulf in April, 1865 then what ship was in charge of the Eastern Gulf Squadron?

 

[Southern_Digger]

John C Breckinridge and John Taylor Wood were in Miami,June 6,1865,before sailing to Cuba in a longboat to stay with Lola Sanchez's(Palatka)relatives. When did they camp?

Jupiter. Secluded in the woods but within site of the lighthouse, while awaiting swifter transportation to the south.

 

[ECS]

Good questions ECS. I have a one more. If the USS Sagamore was not in the Gulf in April, 1865 then what ship was in charge of the Eastern Gulf Squadron?

The last incident of EAST COAST GULF SQUADRON occured Feb 17,1865 off the coast of Bayport.
The USS MAHASKA,a paddlewheel steamer,US Lt Commander William Gibson in command was armed with Parrot guns and captured the blockade schooner,DELIA,which flew both the British flag and the Stars and Bars..The DELIA's cargo was listed at 80 tons,and consisted of pig lead,cases of sabres,and 15 gals of rum.Most of that cargo was jetisoned in the Gulf,Gibson kept the rum for himself and crew.
The war ended,April 10,1865,but during May1-10,1865,believing that Davis would escape from Florida by way of the Gulf,the Union posted pickets at Cedar Key,and at the mouth of the Steinhatchee,Suwannee,Withlacoochee,Crystal and Wacasassee Rivers,while the ESAT COAST BLOCKADE SQUADRON patroled the area,boarded and searched all ship activity,but NONE were seized,captured,or sunk.
After Davis was captured,May 10,1865 near Irwinsville,Ga,the patrols and pickets were suspended.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Stripped to its essentials, a shrimper snagged an old anchor.

An action as significant as a vessel being sunk by the Blockading Squadron would certainly have made it into the Official Records, regardless of the actual name of the vessel. The Official Records are available and there is no mention of any ship being sunk by the Blockading Squadron in that area during the time in question.

That the shrimper also supposedly snagged a "solid gold statue"...which "just happened" to fall out of the net...screams of embellishment. The entire story screams of embellishment.

Besides, everyone knows what really happened to the "Lost Confederate Gold"...

It was buried in Sad Hill Cemetery in a grave marked "Unknown" next to the grave of Arch Stanton.

 

[sabre15]

Thanks to everyone for their honest opinions and for the facts. I always was skeptical about this due to the inability to obtain any type of records.

 

[ECS]

Jupiter. Secluded in the woods but within site of the lighthouse, while awaiting swifter transportation to the south.

John C Breckinridge and John Taylor Wood departed from CSA Brig Gen Robert Bullock's Ocala home on May 15,1865.They arrived at Carlisle's Landing on the Indian River Lagoon(near Melbourne)May 30,1865,and on June 6,1865,were in Miami.
Between June 1-5 would be the timeline when they would have been at Jupiter.
Rose Wagner,the 14 yo daughter of Fort Dallas sutler,William Wagner wrote of Breckinridge's Miami visit in her diary,and is available on FIU's digital collection.HH

 

[ECS]

In 1850,David Levy Yulee held a part interest in the slave trade vessel,"WILLIAM GASTON" Its home port was Jacksonville,Florida,and Capt George Claghorn was the shipmaster.

 

[ivan salis]

the sagamore on march 31st of 1864 attacked the ELTA and a "unnamed" confederate schooner --the ELTA WAS TAKEN and destroyed by sagamore -- however the crew of the schooner set fire to her to prevent its capture and fled * this occurred near cedar key .

worth noting * cedar key was where David Yulee's train tracks ended at * and as such is a logical transshipping point rail to ship wise for gold being transported out of the country --smuggler / blockade runners often had gold aboard to pay for war supplies -- cotton and gold were the main ways the south had to pay for things as the war drug on --since none of the foreign war good suppliers wanted confederate "paper money"

 

[ECS]

In the early years of the War of Northern Aggression,yes gold was used to buy war supplies and the CSA warships.The CSA had $15 million in gold buy selling bonds to investment houses and speculators in the South and in Europe.By the end of the War,the CSA had less than $150,000 in gold specie and bullion,$100,000 in silver specie and bullion,and about $200,000 in Confederate bills.
Most of the Confederate money was based on future cotton sales to Europe,of which they defaulted on after the fall of Richmond,April 2,1865.The United States enacted AMENDMENT 15,Section 4,basicly saying that the US government was NOT resposible for the debts of the CSA,and later sued England for damages caused by that country's support of the SOUTH.
Yes,Yulee's RR ended at Cedar Key,which also had a Confederate salt works,and was Union occupied by soldiers station at Fort Meyers,who looted the town and raped the the local women.In my notes I have the link to a Union diary with accounts of this activity.
CSA Capt J J Dickinson(Marion county),encounted some of the Union forces at nearby Otter Creek with his hit and run tactics,and scored a minor victory for CSA central Florida.

 

[Salvor6]

ECS you are amazing. Thanks for the info.

Ivan I think that "unnamed" schooner is the one we are looking for. The treasure hunters that were searching for the Abbey Bee told me that her crew set the vessel on fire and it burnt to the waterline and sank. Coincidence?

 

[sabre15]

Pete you may be right, but now are we looking around cedar key or steinhatchee?

 

[Salvor6]

Well Jamie I have to wonder- how did the anchor wind up at Crystal River?

 

[sabre15]

That's a great question, I would like to buy the owner of Charlie's where the anchor is a beer. I would like to hear the story of how and who put the anchor there.

 

[sabre15]

Is there a way to find out locations of where these two vessels were sunk through archives or is it more time and date information from back then? Did they keep coordinates of things like that?

 

[ECS]

ECS you are amazing. Thanks for the info.

Ivan I think that "unnamed" schooner is the one we are looking for. The treasure hunters that were searching for the Abbey Bee told me that her crew set the vessel on fire and it burnt to the waterline and sank. Coincidence?

Jan 15,1862,the USS Hatteras entered Cedar Key just as the CSA blockade runnrt THE STAG was setting sail.The Hatteras fired upon the Stag,whose capt ran the schooner aground and set it afire,as his crew escaped.The Hatteras also burned the blockade schooners,Anna Smith,Wyfe,and the Aucilla,which were loaded with cotton and turpentine as cargo.The CSA blockade schooner Fanny managed to escape and sailed to Crystal River.
The Union crew then commenced to burn Yulee's Florida RR depot,warehouses,7 railcars of turpentine,and pulled down the telegraph wires.
Another accounts of the Union in Cedar Key can be found in the diary of William McCullough,who served under US Capt Henry A Crane,Company A,2nd Union Cavalry,Fort Meyers.
www.lamartin.com/william_mccullough-diary.htm
David Levy Yulee's Margarita Plantation at Homosassa was raid and burned by the Union crew of the USS Arial.

 

[ECS]

Is there a way to find out locations of where these two vessels were sunk through archives or is it more time and date information from back then? Did they keep coordinates of things like that?

Civil War: Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies

 

[Jolly Mon]

It sounds like you are suddenly looking for a typical outward bound blockade runner. It would certainly be a great find for historical reasons...the ship would also have been carrying a very, very rich cargo for the time: cotton. The Civil War and the stifling Union blockade had caused the price of cotton to skyrocket world wide. By early 1864 a shipload would have been worth a fortune. There would have been zero reason to risk trying to run a large amount of gold and silver through the blockade in early 1864.

 

[ivan salis]

many of the blockade runners were privately owned * and were paid off when they delivered their "cargoes" they insisted on gold as payment in most cases and did not take "csa paper money" -- the owners of the vessels often had a good bit of money on board to conduct trading with as well as their cotton cargo to use to buy war goods and other highly desired items to bring back. for a blockade runner to have 50,000 inI gold coin aboard her to conduct "business and for payroll of the crew"would not be strange in my point of view.

many blockade running capts --carried "their own private cargo" --goods bought with "their pay" which was normally paid in gold when trading the cotton ,they would buy "side cargo" for themselves -- these "private goods" were often high end luxury items and were sold for gold in the south --these capts often had their "life savings aboard their ships with them -- often in a iron type strongbox built in under their "bunks" in their cabins .

 

[ECS]

It sounds like you are suddenly looking for a typical outward bound blockade runner. It would certainly be a great find for historical reasons...the ship would also have been carrying a very, very rich cargo for the time: cotton. The Civil War and the stifling Union blockade had caused the price of cotton to skyrocket world wide. By early 1864 a shipload would have been worth a fortune. There would have been zero reason to risk trying to run a large amount of gold and silver through the blockade in early 1864.

Cotton at that time was going at $450 a bale,but one must consider that the CSA treasury was based on bonds from Europe on FUTURE cotton shipments.CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin(Yulee's cousin) set up the blockade runners and routes to keep the flow of cotton going to Europe to cover these bond obligations.
The CSA "cattle cavalry" shipments out of Punta Rassa only accepted gold for payment,mostly in Spanish and Cuban specie,and to the best of my knowledge,no cattle blockade runners were caught or captured by the Union.
Jacob Summerlin,a major South Florida cracker cowboy,would only accept gold as payment for his cattle.