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Thread: SCARCE 1774 HISTORY OF THE BUCANIERS OF AMERICA: BUCCANEERS, PIRATES, FREE-BOOTERS

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  1. #1

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    SCARCE 1774 HISTORY OF THE BUCANIERS OF AMERICA: BUCCANEERS, PIRATES, FREE-BOOTERS

    I don't usually post over here, but need an opinion.

    Does this inscription ring a bell with anyone else?


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    SCARCE 1774 HISTORY OF THE BUCANIERS OF AMERICA BUCCANEERS PIRATES FREE-BOOTERS | eBay

  2. #2
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    Let me just throw a date out there....

    Say...1686?

    Interesting tho..I always understood Sir William to have spelled his name "Phips"..vs "Phipps".

    I'm no hand writing expert..but seems VERY similar to his penmanship.
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  3. #3
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    After a moment of thought..I just realized..I've been READING that account. Unless I miss my guess...thats Alexandre Exquemelin's "History of the Buccaneers of America".

    It was first published in Dutch (1678), then translated into German (1679), Spanish (1681) and English (1684).

    You may have something here....jmo.

    Ag
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  4. #4
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    Sir

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    Good luck in seeking leads in founding treasures. I am wondering how many treasure hunters have search for this treasure.
    Last edited by Honest Samuel; Sep 04, 2017 at 11:39 PM.
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  5. #5
    us
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    William Phips (also Phipps, he may have not read well) of 1641 Conception fame, lived from 1651 to 1695 so it can't be his book.

    The question is, did it belong to anyone from his family? And if so, why did they have the book? Because Uncle William (or whatever) went treasure hunting and became knighted and wealthy for it?

    And the, the handwriting is similar. The early "s" disappeared later.

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    If so, it's quite the find.
    Last edited by Bum Luck; Sep 04, 2017 at 11:18 PM.
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    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." — Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  6. #6
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    "WP"

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    Hmmm.
    The description leading to this previous add(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8uFbbeaYu32vSw) stated that both volumes had GW Phipps signature on their title pages.
    https://www.vialibri.net/years/items...e-bucaniers-of
    Last edited by releventchair; Sep 04, 2017 at 11:19 PM.
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  7. #7

    Aug 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by agflit View Post
    Let me just throw a date out there....

    Say...1686?

    Interesting tho..I always understood Sir William to have spelled his name "Phips"..vs "Phipps".

    I'm no hand writing expert..but seems VERY similar to his penmanship.


    Being that this is a Fifth Edition, 1774, it couldn't possibly be William's signature. But....

    After some research, I have reason to believe it may have been inscribed to Sir William Phips by his adopted grandson, in Memoriam to his discovery of the Nuestra Señora de la Concepción.

    Sir William had no children of his own, but adopted the son of his wife's sister, Spencer Bennett. Spencer took the name Phipps as his own and later became Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts.

    Spencer Phipps' only surviving son was Colonel David Phips. He became high sheriff of Middlesex, Cambridge, Massachusetts, and resided there until the Revolution in 1775 forced him to escape to England, after which his home and all of his personal property left behind were confiscated.

    It's my belief, after researching in depth, that this set was possibly part of that estate.

    I found a letter from David Phips, with very similar handwriting, in a collection at Harvard University. Notice the similarity of the " P "s I have circled in red....


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    Letter from David Phips to Colonel Jonathan Snelling regarding escort of Governor Hutchinson to Harvard Commencement, 1773 July 12 · Colonial North American Project at Harvard


    It would stand to reason, since his father, Spencer Phipps, spelled his name with two P's...that he would inscribe his grandfather's name the same way.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by releventchair View Post
    Hmmm.
    The description leading to this previous add(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8uFbbeaYu32vSw) stated that both volumes had GW Phipps signature on their title pages.
    https://www.vialibri.net/years/items...e-bucaniers-of


    Could the G possibly refer to "Governor" of Massachusetts? Governor W. Phipps?
    Bum Luck likes this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditlihi View Post
    Could the G possibly refer to "Governor" of Massachusetts? Governor W. Phipps?
    Beats me.
    I looked for Phipp's in Virginia to start , due to the E-Bay sellers location and found enough to not run them all down.
    One got five years for sabotaging ...Another a land dispute . Others found advanced age...Then the Irishman and Spanish ship by which time I was wandering ...
    Then found the book listed for sale.
    Then figured,enough!
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  10. #10

    Aug 2016
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  11. #11

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    Notice the colon separating the initials and last name on the book inscription, the same mark is between the first and last name of the addressee on the letter. Hmmmmm....

    Looks pretty solid to me.

  12. #12
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    Surrender the Booty

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    That is the way that Copperplate, and later Spencerian script "p" was taught, as far as the general shape where the bottom is not closed. I don't think those two hands you have shown are the same person. The way the P's are connected for example is radically different.
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  13. #13

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    I respectfully disagree. The added flourish at the top of the P can be explained by the difference in the flourish one uses in a signature vs. within the body of a letter. The open bottom of the P is not typical Spencerian script either. I would also point out that the bottom curve of the P where the script joins to the next letter, as well as the I, are identical on both....

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  14. #14
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    Surrender the Booty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditlihi View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Notice the colon separating the initials and last name on the book inscription, the same mark is between the first and last name of the addressee on the letter. Hmmmmm....

    Looks pretty solid to me.
    That's not remarkable, as colons were used as "full stops" around 17th and 18th century......they were really introduced as intermediate stops, but precisely how they would be used was in a bit of flux for sometime, and colons between initials was common, as it is to use periods today for this purpose.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditlihi View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The added flourish at the top of the P can be explained by the difference in the flourish one uses in a signature vs. within the body of a letter. The open bottom of the P is not typical Spencerian script either.
    Open bowl p is common in cyrillic, round, copperplate, spencerian as well as many old hands. You would typically find a more heightened ascender when the bowl is open. The signed book has this heightened ascender on the p, the other example does not. The formatting is off, in the first example the hand is writing VERY tight formatting, in the example the formatting is well spaced between words. We don't have much exemplars to go from as we just have the signature to compare with, but my own opinion is that those samples, although both written in old hand are not the same.
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