Jul 27, 2012, 06:19 PM
Almost a Cob...
Not from a shipwreck... but this land find is my first Spanish Coin I found that I could keep. In early 1980's, I received permission to allow my club onto a historic site being cleared and developed. I was there a week previous, finding musket balls and military buttons, circa 1830's. The fort was constructed upon an old Indian village site. So, I brought in about 7-10 who could make the drive and set about hunting. One novice was not doing so well, so when I got a signal under a large oak, I let him test it with his detector. Wanting him to find something there, I said it was probably a military button and I let him dig it. He recovered a 1795 1 reale and an 1824 2 reale from that hole. He dug it so it was his, although I did find the signal. A few years later, a friend hunting on yet another site using a used garage sale Whites detector got a signal but lost it, and asked what happened. He was a novice so I explained it probably dropped deeper in the hole. I grabbed the dirt and dropped it on his coil showing him how to check the deeper dirt (pre-pinpointer days). Upon doing this, his detector signaled out--I placed atop his coil a 1797 1 reale. Now, he got the signal and I dug it out. My second experience with digging colonial Florida, Spanish coins. Of course, he got to keep the coin. I continued the search at Sebastian and Jupiter beaches without success. Now about eight years later, I was searching a Volunteers Camp in SW Florida, established atop a Seminole camp. I hit this one there.
1782 1 reale....... Notably, lost by a Seminole person. I have seen several coins found by others from 19th century Seminole camps. All had the head of the King, or Liberty scratched as-is this coin. It was a custom for these people to disfigure the image on the coins before drilling it and wearing it. The Seminole women would have these coins sewn onto their blouses, across their chest--the more coins, the more prominent the woman was to the chiefs family. I have seen coins hammered out to 4-6 inches in diameter with the image stretched out, but visible thereon, and bearing carvings of stick figures of hunters and jumping deer. I guess the third time at encountering evidence of Spanish Florida was the charm for me.
Jul 27, 2012 06:19 PM
Jul 27, 2012, 07:11 PM
My eyes don't see the '1' before the 'R'; therefore I believe it's a 1/2 R versus a 1R.
The 1/2 R has a diameter of 18mm and the 1R a diameter of 20 mm. There is nothing else in the pic to scale the coin.
Jul 28, 2012, 12:03 PM
Don, I know little about the history of these coins and less about establishing the denomination. However, I rely on the expertise of someone like you and appreciate your input. Hence, it must be a half reale. I am learning every day.
Originally Posted by Mackaydon
Jul 28, 2012, 12:28 PM
I also think the coin is a 1792 not a 1782. Why? Because the assayer's last initial on the coin appears to be an "M"; whereas the assayer's last initial on a 1782 coin is "F". Part of the confusion may be that the king's title seems to end in "III" but, in reality, we may not be able to see the fourth "I"; as in 'IIII', which was one method of the day to show the king's title--versus the more familiar "IV".
Aug 01, 2012, 02:45 PM
What is something like this worth?
Aug 01, 2012, 05:43 PM
An 'unholed' one in apparently good shape sold for $13.49 a month ago on eBay:
1792 Mexico Carolus IIII 1/2 Real silver coin | eBay
Aug 01, 2012, 06:42 PM
A half real is a little smaller than a dime,a one a little bigger.happy hunting.
Aug 08, 2012, 11:22 PM
That sounds like my hometown Ais/fort. Two houses north... today... can someone help I.D.. this
Aug 09, 2012, 08:56 PM
I'd be guessing but it appears similar to a lead seal. "T Co." may refer to a telephone company. The first few spanish coins found in one hole--as described above-- were found very close to where I believe you are searching but nearer to the highest village ellevation. The few times I knocked on doors in that area nobody was home to answer, giving exception to the one property I received permission to hunt back in the early 1980's. Such a long drive for a gamble hoping someone was home, therefore, I focused on similar sites elsewhere.
Originally Posted by GatorBoy
Aug 09, 2012, 10:05 PM
Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it's a lead seal. They cleared the underbrush there around the mound in the eighties. You probably knew about that huh. Pottery everywhere . I have another piece of lead from there that has a very interesting stamp.It very much resembles the Mexico mint mark with assayer D. Diego Degodoy.
Any ideas? ... coin weight. Seal for something mint related?
Aug 09, 2012, 11:50 PM
The item is not a Mexican cob.
Also, the Mexico City mint marks were either M., little o over big M or Mo but not OM.
Aug 09, 2012, 11:56 PM
I know its not a Cobb thanks.. its lead. And you should see how many cobs are marked oMD. look at just about any site that has atocha silver
Aug 10, 2012, 12:23 AM
I'm quite aware of what you are saying though the Mexico Mint mark on coins is written with the small 'o' over a larger 'M'. The difference is many computers/typewriters are not equipped to write it as it appears on the coin; they can only write oMD.
Here's the 'o' 'M' mint mark: Mexico City Mint
always with the small 'o' over --not next to--the larger 'M'--even on Mel's coins. I stand corrected in what I wrote earlier as to M then 'o'; it is always 'o' over 'M'
Aug 10, 2012, 02:10 AM
I hope I didn't sound disrespectful.that's not my style. I see your point. Still seems very coincidental that I have a small o an MD on the same stamp at a site that I also found.."Wich I didn't mention" a marked olive jar rim that puts it during the correct time period.
Aug 10, 2012, 02:22 AM
Also... while I have the chance.. this also came from there.. can you make any sence of the raised letters on the guard?
Aug 10, 2012, 10:27 AM
Bill, could the letters possibly be in another language other than English? I am thinking Chinese, Japanese.
Live and learn from digging the past.
Aug 10, 2012, 10:58 AM
No offense taken.
I could have been clearer by simply stating the oMD on Mexican coins is written vertically, not horizontally, as on your object.
Yes, it's coincidental and could be confusing it found with other objects of that era.
Aug 10, 2012, 12:01 PM
To beachcomber.. the raised letters appear to me to be European. The style resembles that on Spanish coins to me. Also the style of knife looks like a cutto which is also Spanish.
Aug 11, 2012, 08:46 AM
[QUOTE=GatorBoy;2887889]Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it's a lead seal. They cleared the underbrush there around the mound in the eighties. You probably knew about that huh. Pottery everywhere . I have another piece of lead from there that has a very interesting stamp.It very much resembles the Mexico mint mark with assayer D. Diego Degodoy.
Gary, it was dozed in the early 1980's. To the north was city park. South of driveway, including the mound was state protected site. I verified this with the city only a few days after the site was dozed. After being dozed, it sat there untouched-no city digs-no archeologists-knowone. The land north of the entrance driveway was quite high and once sloped steeply down to the paved road. Material washed down onto IR drive and cars were running over large pieces of refuse midden shell; plain pottery; check-stamped pottery; and, pieces of black glass bottles. With permission from the city, I brought my club to search the site in the early 1980's. They said no harm, just stay north of the driveway and away from the protected mound. We found a few buttons and musket balls. After that, the landowner to the north gave me permission to search his land. Unfortunately, my timing was off because he had scraped the area and was in the process of building a house before I could search there. The land had changed hands since then and the house was expanded later on. Of Course, we were not the first to search there. The city and nearby landowners allowed Stuart Auerbach's Kellyco group to search these properties in 1975. I believe the late John D. was involved with this hunt too. There were about 50 hunters in attendance and much was found. Only Stuart could tell you more accurately on what was found. However, for many years, thorn bushes covered the site and limited access in some areas. I learned this because I joined his group in 1976 and participated in hunts at Ft. Dade on the Withlacoochee; and, in the Big Cypress Reservation. Back then, he asked me to become their guide to direct hunts in the Bahama Islands, inspecting them and setting up group digs. As I still had to pay for food and lodging, I turned it down. I'm getting a bit off-topic but I was told some spanish coins were found during the 1975 Kellyco hunt. Your lead object seems to have no patina. Did you clean it? Notably, this site had a pioneer living on it in the 1890's in a cabin. Also, the RR cut through the back part of the site. Hence, later period finds are not uncommon. A few non-period items I found include an old iron boxcar lock and an early Deere tractor wrench. I believe a few cork top bottles came from a dump near the settlers cabin site too-others were broken when site was dozed to make a roadside park. On a last consideration--we found several lead seals used for locking boxcars on the property. However, the darkness of that piece with OMD, if found as such, may not be lead. Instead, it could be pewter and a piece from an old stein... Just another possibility.
Last edited by Southern_Digger; Aug 11, 2012 at 09:17 AM.
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