Can someone establish date and information on this cob?

[Southern_Digger]

Not the best of shape. I believe the salvor I obtained it from referred to it as a "scrub," having been exposed to severe ocean currents and abrasion. He said it is a one reale, however, I thought it almost large enough to pass for a wore down two reale. Information please... thank you.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Mackaydon]

If it weighs more than 3.44 grams, it's not a 1R. If more than 6.88 grams, it's not a 2R.
Don.......
Edit: It was minted in Potosi. Dated 'pillars and waves' coins from Potosi were minted between 1652 and 1773. The date of your cob is 'buried' between the base of the pillars--I can't make it out.

 

[dagfoto]

the I P H 6 , across the top dates it to the first year of the transition from Shield designs to Pillars .. 1652,
the 5 is visible in the lower center, an 8 is above that (8 Reales) .. in 1653 they did'nt use the upper notations.
condition looks like possible Maravillas , or Jupiter shipwrecks

 

[Mackaydon]

Or the "Capitana" off Ecuador (1654) which initially carried the Maravillas and possible the Jupiter coins.
Don.....

 

[Diver_Down]

the I P H 6 , across the top dates it to the first year of the transition from Shield designs to Pillars .. 1652,
the 5 is visible in the lower center, an 8 is above that (8 Reales) .. in 1653 they did'nt use the upper notations.
condition looks like possible Maravillas , or Jupiter shipwrecks

Dagfoto nailed it. The only thing I'll add is that the assayer is Antonio de Ergueta. In summary, 1652 transitional 8R minted in Potosi.

 

[Mackaydon]

I knew the I-PH-6 stood for the first two years of the mintage 16XX and the PH stood for Philip IV, but I was unaware that designation only occurred in the first year of the transition 1652; I continue to learn; thanks.
Don..

 

[Southern_Digger]

Or the "Capitana" off Ecuador (1654) which initially carried the Maravillas and possible the Jupiter coins.
Don.....

First, thank you everyone for nailing it down. I believe it is from a wreck off Equador, or thereabouts. Could the Capitana have another name? or perhaps, there is yet another wreck--the Consolacion?

 

[Mackaydon]

The formal name for the 'Capitana' is: Jesús María de la Limpia Concepción
Don.......

 

[Southern_Digger]

The formal name for the 'Capitana' is: Jesús María de la Limpia Concepción
Don.......

Thank You Don... Later after posting, I found a certificate that got seperated from the coin and it mentions something about being found on the wreck of the Consolacion (sp?) and something about the Island of the Dead. Does this sound familiar and legit?

 

[Mackaydon]

Yes, while we were salvaging the "Capitana", the Consolación was also being discovered and salvaged not too far away.
Here's the story of the Consolación:
Pirate Wreck of La Consolacion, Sunk 1681 off The Coast of "Isla de Muerto" Ecuador. Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don.......

 

[Diver_Down]

Thank You Don... Later after posting, I found a certificate that got seperated from the coin and it mentions something about being found on the wreck of the Consolacion (sp?) and something about the Island of the Dead. Does this sound familiar and legit?

Although it is a possibility that your cob is from the Consolacion, it is more likely from the Capitana. It would be extremely rare to find transitional cobs on the Consolacion. Out of the hundreds of Consolacion cobs that I've handled, the earliest has been 1659. Most are about 1680. In my personal collection, I have a 1659. I also have a dozen that from 1680.

 

[Mackaydon]

dagfoto,
I may have misunderstood your previous post, but the same '1 P H 6' designation is also found on those coins dated 1653.
For example: Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don........

 

[Diver_Down]

dagfoto,
I may have misunderstood your previous post, but the same '1 P H 6' designation is also found on those coins dated 1653.
For example: Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don........

Don, I don't think you misunderstood the post. The 1 PH 6 designation is predominantly found on specimens from 52, but as mentioned in your link, there are only a handful known to have the same markings on a 53. Studying the transitional cobs is a almost an endeavor on it's own. Noting the transitionals, you will find patterns carried over for subsequent years being noted as minor transitionals. I just traded my services today for a 1653 Jupiter wreck 8R. It has unique dot styling around the 8 in the Pillar tic-tac-toe. Unfortunately, the corrosion from it's years at sea have caused a loss in detail where the 1 PH 6 designation is on 52 pieces. I'll have to wait until I get set up my scope as I believe I see the remnants of the P in PH on mine.

 

[Mackaydon]

Diver__Down,
You're right.
Hardly a chance that a nearly 30-year old 8 Rs would be found on a galleon (the Consolacion). More likely, if the coin is verified to date either 1652 or 1653, it would have come off the Capitana which was lost in 1654.
Don....

 

[hamiddetecting]

Nice find

Congratulation!

coin of Athocha

 

[Mackaydon]

Southern Digger,
What is the coin's weight?
If it's under 7 grams, you're probably looking at a 2R similar to this one:
Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don.......

 

[Southern_Digger]

Southern Digger,
What is the coin's weight?
If it's under 7 grams, you're probably looking at a 2R similar to this one:
Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don.......

Dug out my scale and checked -- 18 G.--maybe a 4 reale... I am sending you a PM...

 

[Diver_Down]

Dug out my scale and checked -- 18 G.--maybe a 4 reale... I am sending you a PM...

It is marked an 8 reale. It is possible the loss is attributed to corrosion. It wouldn't be in the mortal interest of Antonio de Ergueta to be responsible for producing light 8 reales. With the recent Potosi mint scandal and the death of the assayers at the time, Antonio wouldn't be caught dead (pun intended) skimping the King.

 

[Mackaydon]

Can't be a 'four' since 18g would be more than half the weight of an '8' (at 27+g); it's an '8'. At 18g, it can only be as Diver Down wrote and sea damage/corrosion is quite apparent to account for the weight loss.
Don.........

 

[Southern_Digger]

Not the best of shape. I believe the salvor I obtained it from referred to it as a "scrub," having been exposed to severe ocean currents and abrasion. He said it is a one reale, however, I thought it almost large enough to pass for a wore down two reale. Information please... thank you.

View attachment 657844 View attachment 657845

I just went to the source who catalogued these cobs for Robcar SA. When they received cobs to catalog, they were only i.d.'d as cobs from the Isle de la Muerta wreck. The cataloguer indicated that included cobs dating back to 1652 and B assayer coins (not post-dating 1610). The cataloguer could not say from what wreck altho the cert. states it being from the Consolacion. My question, hearing that the Capitana wreck is not too far apart, is--did the Capitana also sink at the same Isle de la Muerta..? Also, I noticed many more Consolacion cobs listed on sale on the interenet--being described as '8''s, but some weighing lesst tahn 15 grams. I susupect if they are from Consolacion, some could be greatly reduced in weight due to the fire. Mine appears in a few places to have been melted, or softened and distorted. And last, after learning some assayers were caught producing underweight specie, could these be some of those illegal underweight strikes, in respects, could be considered as 1600's counterfeits, although historic nonetheless...