The history of Tayopa

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ORO mi bosum, beloved, wonderful coffee making buddy, has it ever occurred to you that I might need someone to spring any traps? Beth and I can share the insurance.

Don Jose de La Mancha

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[Oroblanco]

ORO mi bosum, beloved, wonderful coffee making buddy, has it ever occurred to you that I might need someone to spring any traps? Beth and I can share the insurance.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I might know just the person for that job, an old trapper from way back.

[Crow]

Hello All

Thank you Real de Tayopa for you amazing insight into your past and the Tayopa story. Your a treasure in its self and a true gentleman of the code.

Now there has been a few questions gnawing away at my tired old inquisitive brain.

Are the original papers concerning Tayopa allegedly found by Henry O' Flipper in or around 1900, the inventory written by a Jesuit on 17 February 1646 still in existence?

And was there any baptismal records of Guadalupe de Tayopa still surviving at the church at Bacadeguachi?

I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa.

Once again thinking you in advance of your interesting comments.

Crow

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good moring crow: believe it or not your post only showed up this morning ? You asked -->Are the original papers concerning Tayopa allegedly found by Henry O' Flipper in or around 1900, the inventory written by a Jesuit on 17 February 1646 still in existence
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Frankly, I haven't the slighest idea. While it would be wonderful to see or own them, they are no longer necessary.
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you also asked -->And was there any baptismal records of Guadalupe de Tayopa still surviving at the church at Bacadeguachi?
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Again, I have no idea, although Sr Polzer flatly denied it when we were talking about Tayopa and specifically about this- but then ??

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You asked -->I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa
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Good luck on that. this has been , and is still one of the major problems with Tayopa. I did find that the reference to watching the sun setting over Tayopa from the sierra de Minaca in Chihua. was 100% correct. See Attachment.

[Oroblanco]

Crow wrote

>I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa

What do you consider to be "verifiable"? Aristophanes mentions the name in his "Clouds" <448-380 BC> but I doubt that it has the same meaning, rather just a coincidence that the name Tayopa is found in ancient Greek. Capt Hurdaide's expedition 1602 does not mention it by name, but it appears that the first discovery was made during this expedition.
Oroblanco

[Crow]

Hello All

Oroblanco: Verifiable evidence? Independent sources any documents relating to Tayopa birth, death marriage or official documents or journals mentioning Tayopa. Some times these documents can bee seen as irelievent, but much can be learned about the history of the site.

Real de Tayopa: I have always read your posts with interest on this subject and has taught me much. Regardless of missing bits of historical references that might of eluded you. You still have made an impressive demonstration of your discovery of Tayopa under which I have no doubt that you have identified the location. I find it interesting that you mention that "Sr Polzer flatly denied it when we were talking about surviving records of Tayopa."

There was a professor from the University of California called Carl Ortwin Sauer who was a geographer. Who claimed when he was trapped by rain in Arizpe, Sonora, inspected a chest full of Marriage banns drawn up at Tayopa before 1700. Sauer also learned that there was baptismal records at Bacadeguachi.. There is also allegedly records at Granados as well.

Is this fact or just hearsay is anyone's guess, but I would interested to find out either way if possible of course. Some thing you might find fascinating either way. From a historical point of view.

Crow

[Oroblanco]

Crow wrote

Oroblanco: Verifiable evidence? Independent sources any documents relating to Tayopa birth, death marriage or official documents or journals mentioning Tayopa. Some times these documents can bee seen as irelievent, but much can be learned about the history of the site.

I don't possess documents such as you are seeking, sorry.
Oroblanco

[Casca]

Hello to Don and all,

Thanks for the info and the stories. I can not really offer any new or improved information to the thread. But will keep an eye as I am fascinated with your find. I recently have been looking at what I feel are Spanish sites here in Southern New Mexico. So your findings and methods do apply here also. I am unable to find a partner so I do it all, and usually alone.

With that in mind, I have two questions I would like to pose. One is what was found in the mine? It may have been posted already, but I am looking at the signs that lead to the Iron Doors, and directly what was found inside to confirm the mine? I have many openings I would like to compare with. I guess a general setup of the immediate area of the doors would help. How did they set up the final area knowing the lifting part has been solved. Dont post a pic or anything, I need a idea of what to expect if I ever get brave enough to climb in a dark hole all by myself in a remote area, where it would take hours for help to arrive.........

This leads to my second question. Im to believe the Spanish used booby traps to detour would be treasure hunters. So my safety is important. I have located several area I wish to explore, but wont enter for safety reasons. Some of the obstacles are rather large, and with no way to get the right equipment in, and help, I will have to go around them. Im concerned with the traps in the cave/mine itself.

Having a small but working knowledge of markings and cave design from several sites here local. I understand how one could be looking at the mine/cave and not know it. You posted a picture early on in the post. I have three possible locations for your door if you should ever loose it. Im wondering if you were able to use signs to find the site?

Most of my questions I would not put on a open post. You have shared a wealth of knowledge here and I am grateful. I dont think I have seen one piece of bad information, or misinformation. Well, none by you as I was only able to read about halfway through all the post.

I don't profess to be a tracker, but I am seeing things in your photos. I hope you don't mind me downloading them and looking at them in my own way. I respect others sites, and not sure you want someone sending pm's who you know little about. But very impressive areas.

I look forward to your post. I hope you continue to post pictures as I find the signs Im seeing fascinating. Thanks