Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[BillA]

yeah, but there is also a reason why you and Klaus haven't recovered it

 

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[Crow]

Gidday Bill yes we have an approximate location to search. But nothing is easy plus we are searching for this gold that was buried over 400 years ago. So even with the most accurate directions it still no easy task.



I am not convinced that the cost of a search, recovery and effort turning it into liquid assets will be less than what may or may not still be there.

That is why Klaus failed to find serious backers years ago.

Crow

 

[BillA]

fascinating, I had no idea

additionally there will be the patrimony / historical issues

if they had a weight, does that inply a form other than raw gold?
raw gold is a lot easier to deal with
kind of a minor stink right now as the government tries to eliminate buyers

 

[Crow]

That is one of complexities many would be treasure hunters fail to understand. Finding gold is one mammoth task. Getting to keep it convert it into liquid assets and transfer it out of country is whole other ball game. Borders are not as fluid as in times past. Moving illicit gold with no Provence is not as easy as movies make out. If its not sized at the border your taking it from it will be sized in the country your taking it to. So the solution is to find buyer within the country in question to buy the gold and move money out into international transfers.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Yes that is true.

The site is smack bang on the border not only would will be the patrimony / historical issues from one country but possibly two. There is a potential legal challenge from either country.

Crow

 

[BillA]

times have changed
ah, have to spend in-country sniff sniff

more seriously there are limits, a 1/2 kg nugget will be a cooperative activity

 

[BillA]

Yes that is true.

The site is smack bang on the border not only would will be the patrimony / historical issues from one country but possibly two. There is a potential legal challenge from either country.

Crow

call Tom from CA
lol

is this the lost mine on the west coast w/ingots?

edit: just now is a very poor time to be traipsing around the border

 

[Crow]

Gidday Bill I suspect the gold was looted after the destruction of Leon in 1610 being shipped from lake Managua then down the San Juan River to the Caribbean coast.

Today The Canas-Jerez Treaty states that Nicaragua owns the waters of the river and that Costa Rica can only use it for commercial navigation on certain parts of the river at Nicaragua's discretion. The area we suspect is more accessible from Nicaragua but on Costa Rica side of the river bank?

Mugnoz was Sargent stationed at the fort on the river. When he died he had his last confession to father Agustin Ceballos in Granada, Nicaragua. Who reported the confession to Authorities.



Crow

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

 

[Crow]

call Tom from CA lol

Is he still around? I think the big kanacka ate him for breakfast.

Crow

 

[BillA]

that area is a mess, after the Nicas dredged it the Ticos put in a road that is impassable
but now for the 1st time the border is shut and patrolled
the CR side is kind of accessible

edit: I understand he got a permanent ban

 

[Crow]

Thanks for the update.

No doubt the borders would of been more fluid in 1950's 1960' and 1970's but now I imagine things are much more complex.

Still I think regardless the region could have enormas tourist potential. If only those walls could talk of what history they have witnessed.



Crow

 

[BillA]

a good looking fort, for sure

 

[Crow]

Of course regardless it makes one wonder if this treasure from 400 years ago might still be there?



Crow

 

[BillA]

bad link?

 

[Crow]

Gidday Bill

Nothing too important just another picture taken from the tower. Picture too big.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Klaus as German born in 1938. He became a stray child left over from chaos and destruction on Nazi Germany in WW2. Poverty after WW2 was in terrible conditions after the water. I suppose born into death destruction as child and surviving it makes people have a hunger and drive survive. Klaus was one such person saddled with guilt of a destructive war he was child in. So in his passion to escape the horrors of the past created the hunger amigos.

The hunger amigos is what drives treasure hunters......

Klaus turned up researching many lost treasures around the world especially in South America and south East Asia. While even with best of research there was no guarantees of success in life. Failure walks hand in hand with success like ying and yang. But where people shine is in the persistence.....

Persistence Persistence Persistence.....while continued failure over time can be frustrating yet dame fortune can shine when you least expect it.

Klaus found documents pertaining to British ship The "Forbes", Captain Frazer Sinclair, sailed from Calcutta bound to the Eastward on a trading voyage with a cargo of opium, piece goods and iron; returning home laden with a profit to a considerable amount about 2 A.M then going at the rate of 5 knots, she struck on a reef of rocks at the Southern entrance of the straits of Billiton, latitude 3° 40' South, together with a Dutch brig which had been taken as prize during the voyage.

She was from Batavia bound to Sourabaya with a cargo of wine, gin, arrack &... The boats were immediately hoisted out, and every endeavour made to get the ship off, but unfortunately without any effect, as in about 2 hours after, the stern went down in 5 fathoms; finding every attempt to save either the vessel or cargo fruitless.

The crew with 5 Javanese taken from the brig were divided into three boats: Captain Sinclair, Mr. Robert Sharp, 4th mate and 11 of the crew of the pinnace, after undergoing the greatest distress from want of water and provisions under a scorching sun, without an awning or anything to cover them, fell in with the General Baird, Captain John Harford, eight days after leaving the wreck who supplied them with everything requisite for their further progress to Malacca.

However he never had the capital to search and recover such treasure as he discovered references to two gold chests and 1.5 tons of silver Spanish pieces of 8.

With no backers no one even interested to even listen to his proposal he persuaded a German real estate developer Martin Wenzel prepared to put 3 million into search for the Forbes. In their search they found by chance a Chinese junk full of porcelain. Yet their goals was the Forbes.

But the persistence pays off amigo in 2009 they hit the jack pot. and found more than 1.5 tonnes of silver coins, gold jewellery, crystal, Chinese porcelain, cannon, muskets and 400 bottles of wine were recovered by the treasure hunters from the Forbes, a ship that ran aground between Borneo and Sumatra in 1806....

In the picture below Klaus is in the far left of the picture and Martin Wenzel is in far right below. Klaus was 71 years old until he finally hit the jackpot.

View attachment 1866026

However at the time they was able to negotiate a deal with the Indonesian authorities 50/50 deal. The recovered an estimated 12 million. It did not got without problems even with agreements in place. Academics and archeologists made a fuss about the ethics of deal. They started rumor that Klaus spirited more out of country robbing the Indonesia government of their equal share that promoted authorities to raid the warehouse. Nothing was proved....But when mud is thrown mud sticks and the Indonesian government would not renew any more deals with them in which they had identified a shipwreck with 2 tons gold. Today that mystery wreck has been kept secret because no deal can be made.

I believe Klaus has now since passed away a few years ago amigos so the secret of the other shipwreck remains a legend.

Knowing how astute Klaus was with his research I have no doubt somewhere there is a shipwreck with about 100 million wrecked in Indonesian waters.

Crow

thanks Crow for this yarn...I hope Klaus at last benefited from some part of the treasure find before he died...

TT

 

[tintin_treasure]

That is one of complexities many would be treasure hunters fail to understand. Finding gold is one mammoth task. Getting to keep it convert it into liquid assets and transfer it out of country is whole other ball game. Borders are not as fluid as in times past. Moving illicit gold with no Provence is not as easy as movies make out. If its not sized at the border your taking it from it will be sized in the country your taking it to. So the solution is to find buyer within the country in question to buy the gold and move money out into international transfers.

Crow

thanks Crow for this unsolved captivating yarn...that is always the dilemma and it probably depends and differs from country to country...but if the exact location is known I wonder if it is possible to sell the information to the government or some folks in high society and just walk away ? Besides what you stated ,even if there is a reasonable a priori agreement of sorts to find the treasure, once the treasure is found, unforeseen vultures may soon appear and drag the issue in court and complications may arise,,,
Hence if one is able to sell the info for a good price and just walks away, in my mind that is a good way to minimize the headache to benefit ratio.

TT

 

[BillA]

TT, you better have cast iron shorts when dealing with Ortega and crew
worse to deal with than Noriega

and CR would never pay

 

[Crow]

Well Amigo

You can look to the Forrest Fenn's Treasure saga as an example. When there is money involved you can see the worst in people. While as a treasure seeker you can be regarded as eccentric if your rich called crazy if ya poor. The knives come out if you ever find anything.

Crow