πŸ₯‡ BANNER Incredible early 1600s sword basket hilt recovered + 1580s jetton and more!!

Bill D. (VA)

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This weekend I was finally able to escape the seemingly perpetual cabin fever mode I'd been in lately after only getting out for one short hunt over the last 5 weeks. I started things off by hooking up with my good friend Joey to make the long trek back to the county that produced the Lord Baltimore sixpence. Joey had recently discovered that the owner of the Lord Baltimore tract was also in control of another nearby land patent site, and we tried to contact him for the go-ahead. But we went by his house 3 different times during the day but could never catch him home. So we were forced to hit an old site, and managed to get into a couple of small, new ones, and didn't get into the production we had hoped for, but we did manage a few keepers. We hope to go back soon and secure permission for the first site as it has high potential based on Joey's research.

I decided to play hooky from church on Sunday, and met up with my buddy Dan for our first hunt since the end of January. Our first stop was at an old site, but one where Dan had ran into a little 1600s hotspot in the woods not long ago. We pounded the area, but in spite of a large field of small iron and brick, we could not pull out any real keepers. We then moved on to another previously hunted site, the one that produced the rattlesnake and stars button on our last hunt there, but things were a bit slow there as well. We then made our way to an adjacent field where we had researched a small 200 acre land patent dating all the way back to 1619, and one that we'd been eyeing for quite some time. After a long walk we came to the narrow peninsula and started noticing brick frags scattered about. We turned our machines on, and I hadn't walked 5 feet when I heard the first signal. It was rather low on the scale, and I wasn't expecting much, but I was shocked when a 1580s Hans Krauwinkle jetton popped out. This is my 4th jetton, and all have come from the very earliest sites so this provided for a little bit of excitement. Dan also made a nice find, but I'll leave that for him to post. At that point we had high hopes for a hammered coin to appear, but the targets were surprisingly few and far between. About halfway into hunting that spot I heard a large, deep iron signal that had the potential to be an indicator for an early trash pit. About 12-18" down I encountered a large iron object, and was expecting it to be a colonial hoe. When I reached down to pull it out I could tell it was obviously not a hoe, but more of a coconut shaped artifact. Dan came over and at first we were puzzled, but then he quickly suggested it just might be a very early sword basket hilt, and after we knocked a little more of the dirt off and saw the intricate designs cut into it we were convinced that's what I had just unearthed. A similar one was recovered from Jamestown a few years ago, and I saw several others like it on the web. From the info I gathered it could date anywhere from the late 1500s to the mid-1600s, and was part of a broad or backsword (single edge blade). Definitely a rare, museum quality piece, and one of the coolest things I've ever dug. I have it in the electrolysis tank now, and hopefully it'll clean up before it falls apart. But its pretty substantial so its got a good chance to survive.

Later we secured another permission for what appeared to be a killer spot - a high flat plateau along a well-know early colonial creek, but it was totally devoid of any period artifacts. At the end of the day we wanted to check out one last spot that we've been wanting to get into, but we found out the owner had moved and the house was vacant. We still decided to make a quick drive back to check out the field, but the soybeans had never been cut. But then we we got involved in an unpleasant situation, and I'll leave that for Dan to explain in his post. When we finally resolved the issue we both agreed it was time to call it a day.
 

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Upvote 64

BuckleBoy

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Good Lord, what a great find! That hilt is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.
 

Mr.T

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Amazing find- think I would be having that on a lower voltage and checking it after about ten hours. you May find other metal underneath. Best of luck with it.!
 

jeff of pa

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This weekend I was finally able to escape the seemingly perpetual cabin fever mode I'd been in lately after only getting out for one short hunt over the last 5 weeks. I started things off by hooking up with my good friend Joey to make the long trek back to the county that produced the Lord Baltimore sixpence. Joey had recently discovered that the owner of the Lord Baltimore tract was also in control of another nearby land patent site, and we tried to contact him for the go-ahead. But we went by his house 3 different times during the day but could never catch him home. So we were forced to hit an old site, and managed to get into a couple of small, new ones, and didn't get into the production we had hoped for, but we did manage a few keepers. We hope to go back soon and secure permission for the first site as it has high potential based on Joey's research.

I decided to play hooky from church on Sunday, and met up with my buddy Dan for our first hunt since the end of January. Our first stop was at an old site, but one where Dan had ran into a little 1600s hotspot in the woods not long ago. We pounded the area, but in spite of a large field of small iron and brick, we could not pull out any real keepers. We then moved on to another previously hunted site, the one that produced the rattlesnake and stars button on our last hunt there, but things were a bit slow there as well. We then made our way to an adjacent field where we had researched a small 200 acre land patent dating all the way back to 1619, and one that we'd been eyeing for quite some time. After a long walk we came to the narrow peninsula and started noticing brick frags scattered about. We turned our machines on, and I hadn't walked 5 feet when I heard the first signal. It was rather low on the scale, and I wasn't expecting much, but I was shocked when a 1580s Hans Krauwinkle jetton popped out. This is my 4th jetton, and all have come from the very earliest sites so this provided for a little bit of excitement. Dan also made a nice find, but I'll leave that for him to post. At that point we had high hopes for a hammered coin to appear, but the targets were surprisingly few and far between. About halfway into hunting that spot I heard a large, deep iron signal that had the potential to be an indicator for an early trash pit. About 12-18" down I encountered a large iron object, and was expecting it to be a colonial hoe. When I reached down to pull it out I could tell it was obviously not a hoe, but more of a coconut shaped artifact. Dan came over and at first we were puzzled, but then he quickly suggested it just might be a very early sword basket hilt, and after we knocked a little more of the dirt off and saw the intricate designs cut into it we were convinced that's what I had just unearthed. A similar one was recovered from Jamestown a few years ago, and I saw several others like it on the web. From the info I gathered it could date anywhere from the late 1500s to the mid-1600s, and was part of a broad or backsword (single edge blade). Definitely a rare, museum quality piece, and one of the coolest things I've ever dug. I have it in the electrolysis tank now, and hopefully it'll clean up before it falls apart. But its pretty substantial so its got a good chance to survive.

Later we secured another permission for what appeared to be a killer spot - a high flat plateau along a well-know early colonial creek, but it was totally devoid of any period artifacts. At the end of the day we wanted to check out one last spot that we've been wanting to get into, but we found out the owner had moved and the house was vacant. We still decided to make a quick drive back to check out the field, but the soybeans had never been cut. But then we we got involved in an unpleasant situation, and I'll leave that for Dan to explain in his post. When we finally resolved the issue we both agreed it was time to call it a day.

a Banner Worthy Post :thumbsup:

great Finds , Full story ,& pics of all your days finds
including plenty of different Pic options for the banner !

Congrats :notworthy:
 

OP
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Bill D. (VA)

Bill D. (VA)

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a Banner Worthy Post :thumbsup:

great Finds , Full story ,& pics of all your days finds
including plenty of different Pic options for the banner !

Congrats :notworthy:

Thanks Jeff, and to all who commented and voted this find for banner. I never thought when I was pulling that huge chuck of rusty iron from the ground that it would be something this amazing. Just goes to show why this is the greatest hobby (or mega-passion in my case) that one can have. Good luck and HH to all ..... Bill
 

BuckleBoy

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I'm curious about the uncomfortable situation. I've had my share of those. Some are funny in recollection, and some I don't really wish to repeat...
 

frogmaster-riviera

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Well done mate! Thanks for sharing this amazing discovery & story :thumbsup: it's looks great on the Banner finds

210448minelabexcaliburscubaunderwater.jpg
 

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Davers

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Awesome
Should Clean up nicely.
 

Rick (Nova Scotia)

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Cool find Bill, I'm not big on iron, but I'd be happy to dig a Jetton.

Sure are glad some of you guy are able to get dirty.

Like BB I'm curious about the uncomfortable situation too, just nosy. (laughing smiley)
 

CRUSADER

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DigIron2

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I know you are into the electrolysis.I have never tried it,really don't know anything about except what i have read and heard.I would imagine because of the age of that piece that it might be kind of brittle in some places.I was just wondering if that is something that you might have to be extra careful with if you go the electrolysis route?again, congrats!
 

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Bill D. (VA)

Bill D. (VA)

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I know you are into the electrolysis.I have never tried it,really don't know anything about except what i have read and heard.I would imagine because of the age of that piece that it might be kind of brittle in some places.I was just wondering if that is something that you might have to be extra careful with if you go the electrolysis route?again, congrats!

I'm having some issues with electrolysis on this piece as I discussed in another post further down this forum. I think it was too harsh a treatment for such a very old, fragile piece of iron, and I've decided against continuing that method. I'm searching for another safer way to do this, and am currently seeking professional advice. I may even let someone that's very experienced with this sort of thing to do the job for me, even if it costs, as it's very important to me to save and preserve this very cool piece of early Virginia history. I'll provide updates as things develop. Thanks for your comments.
 

frogmaster-riviera

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i use electrolysis even on very old coins that are over 2000 years old when i don't care about keeping the patina. When i detect on wineyards and I make 50/50 with the landlord, most of the time they want to show the finds in their wineshop and they want to make them "bling bling".

For electrolysis, need to by a decent DC Lab power supply (approx $150)
285332.jpg


A good electrolysis need a perfect control of Voltage and Amps.
A computerise Power supply is a must, it will stops automatically so no need to stay around.

A S.Steel plate or several S.Steels screws in your case. I use a mathematical formula to apply the correct Amps and voltage depending of the surface of the piece you want to electrolysis.

I use it on roman coins, silver coins, and bronz coins with great success!
 

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Fletch88

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Awesome finds! Congrats.
 

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Bill D. (VA)

Bill D. (VA)

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i use electrolysis even on very old coins that are over 2000 years old when i don't care about keeping the patina. When i detect on wineyards and I make 50/50 with the landlord, most of the time they want to show the finds in their wineshop and they want to make them "bling bling".

For electrolysis, need to by a decent DC Lab power supply (approx $150)
285332.jpg


A good electrolysis need a perfect control of Voltage and Amps.
A computerise Power supply is a must, it will stops automatically so no need to stay around.

A S.Steel plate or several S.Steels screws in your case. I use a mathematical formula to apply the correct Amps and voltage depending of the surface of the piece you want to electrolysis.

I use it on roman coins, silver coins, and bronz coins with great success!

I guess it would be a great advantage to have a power supply like yours that could be dialed in according to the specific application. Since I do a lot of electrolysis that might be something for me to consider. I see where most of your experience is with cleaning small, non-ferrous items like coins. Larger iron items need to be treated a lot differently. My experience so far with cleaning iron using a standard battery charger has been very good, but this particular artifact is a little different. Its been in the ground for almost 400 years, and although quite large and heavy, some of the individual components are rather thin which can cause problems. One of the common problems with using electrolysis on iron is that you'll always have stubborn areas where the corrosion has cut deeper into the artifact, and although 95% of the object might be corrosion free after a bit of cleaning, you still have spots left. If you continue the process you start eating away at the base metal which is certainly undesirable. Sometimes I use small hand tools such as a dremel or dental pick to try to take care of these areas. I'm at the point with the hilt that I need to cease using electrolysis as damage to the base metal is about to begin in spite of having stubborn areas of corrosion, especially on the inside. I'm going to have to use another approach, and am in the process of trying to consult with professionals who know how to handle this sort of thing. I may even consider allowing someone else to finish the job, even if it costs. Thanks for your input, and I'll post updates on this, but it might be a while before I know which direction I need to go.
 

frogmaster-riviera

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Coins are harder to electrosys then artefacts. use a standard battery is good for car parts...

What can be done first is to use a trumble if you have a big one, then finish by a clean and control electrlysis. Trust me, stop using your battery without any control on it. I don't know why there is a fashon for using crappy technology for electrolysis.

Electrolysis = loss of partcules. By using a car or truck battery you shock the artefact and loose quickly everything.

For your find, it'll take at least several slow sessions of 6/7 hours at 9v/12v max @ 1A to begin with surrounded by 6-8 screws around it... Do you have an idear of the Amps delivered in the water by your battery? At least i would say 10 to 20Amps..
 

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Bill D. (VA)

Bill D. (VA)

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Coins are harder to electrosys then artefacts. use a standard battery is good for car parts...

What can be done first is to use a trumble if you have a big one, then finish by a clean and control electrlysis. Trust me, stop using your battery without any control on it. I don't know why there is a fashon for using crappy technology for electrolysis.

Electrolysis = loss of partcules. By using a car or truck battery you shock the artefact and loose quickly everything.

For your find, it'll take at least several slow sessions of 6/7 hours at 9v/12v max @ 1A to begin with surrounded by 6-8 screws around it... Do you have an idear of the Amps delivered in the water by your battery? At least i would say 10 to 20Amps..

I don't use a battery, I use an auto battery charger. It can be operated in either the 6V or 12V mode, and has a max amperage output of just 6 amps. I don't have control over the output, but in a sense it's self regulating. For example, if you hook it up to a totally discharged car battery it will have a high amp output initially, but the more the battery becomes charged the less the output. It's kind of the opposite with electrolysis. Initially the current draw is very low due to it having to pass through a heavily corroded iron object. This is because the iron object's conductivity is very low (high resistance) so that restricts the output from the charger. As the item is slowly cleaned the current gradually increases. The decomposition of the artifact also introduces more particles into the water solution which increases conductivity and current flow. Generally when I put a new, corroded item into the tank the charger doesn't put out more than 1 amp or so at first. That slowly increases to as much as 4-6 amps near the end of the process for most items. If the item is large and heavy that also tends to restrict the maximum current flow. In the case of the hilt, it started out just drawing 1 amp, but this morning (only about 18 hours later) it was putting out 5-6 amps. I was totally shocked at this as it usually takes much longer to get to that point. And I really didn't want that much current going to the hilt due to its potential fragile nature, plus it was getting close to removing some of the base metal. So I had no choice but to discontinue the treatment and search for an alternate method. I'm considering a chemical bath similar to what some archaeologists use, but I'm first going to consult with some experts to see what they recommend. I plan to be careful from here on as I need to make sure this artifact gets the proper conservation it deserves. Using a controllable power supply like yours would definitely help in the process, and I may have to strongly consider getting one for future projects. But for where I'm at with this artifact at the moment, electrolysis at any current flow will be harmful.
 

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