A Jacked Up War Nickel Is Making My Head Hurt

[BigWaveDave]

My hunt today was a good...ooh! My first SBA, a 45 record insert, 11 wheats, And a couple of silvers...or so I thought.

The 1944 P war nickel has me scratching my head.

When I found it, it was tarnished pretty black, as they typically are pulled deep from the turf...but when I cleaned it up with soap and water, she shined up pretty clean...OK...?

When I unintentionally tossed it on the granite countertop, it didn't sound anything like I expected, literally a thud....OK....?

So I grabbed the other 8 war nickels I've found, and compared them....
The 8 had the light plink sound of I guess copper and silver alloy, but the new one, still, thud.

The weight of my 8 average 4.79 grams, accounting for wear, should be 5 grams. The new one, 4.5 grams, but not nearly the wear as others.

The silver test kit revealed a black stain on the cotton, not red, indicative of silver...

Now guy, this is the kicker...I have NEVER found a nickel that rang up as a 75 on the At Pro...
All the other ones, a solid 55, this one, when I found it, thought I was pulling a wheat. Sure enough, scanned it again, compared to the others, still 75.... WTF?



Compared to the others...


None of the pieces respond to a magnet, nor should they...

The Henning Counterfeit was my first inclination, but the P mint mark is on the reverse, telling me it's not a Henning...but what is it?

The 75 on the detector has me baffled.

So, tell me what you think, oh, pics of other finds, for your enjoyment...


Thanks for looking!

 

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[david680]

Try researching if the Phili mint was minting coins for other countries at that time. I know that they did so in the past for a number of countries. Maybe it was struck on a planchet intended for a foreign coin.

Yes, they were. During WWII in particular, the US minted coins for quite a few countries. Australia, Belgium, Fiji, etc. Of course, the Philippines, as a US territory had all their coins minted in the US. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a proper sized blank that would fit. The "thud" has me mystified, if it was struck on the wrong blank I would expect it to be a higher silver blank, which would be a higher sound, not duller. A number of the War Nickels I have dug, rang up in the 57-58 range on my AT Pro, but 75 is strange, to say the least.

From the looks and description, I would be tempted to eliminate zinc and lead, as well as a regular nickel blank as options. Zinc would have degraded, lead would be more obvious, and a regular nickel blank would ring up in the low 50's, not higher. Not much help there, but interesting.

 

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[BigWaveDave]

I appreciate the insight, I like the theories and suggestions.
Deft Tones, Yes, try to find your mystery nickel... I'd love to get a comparison. If you got one too, I'm inclined to think this isn't an anomaly. Just a crazy head-scratcher, that now has you roped in! Ha!

 

[dts52]

I admit to being ignorant and this is a little off topic, but... how profitable can it be to counterfeit a nickel? Seems to me that the profit margin at best might be 2 cents a coin. There had to be a more lucrative way to spend all that time and energy. JMHO
HH
dts

 

[trapperart]

Congrats hope you get your mystery solved good luck

 

[BigWaveDave]

Well, 60 years ago, this Henning guy faked thousands of them, don't know his profit margin.... He only did this after getting busted for producing fake $5 bills...

 

[IDXMonster]

Why does the 9 look like a zero?

 

[IDXMonster]

Surely a transitional mistake of some kind,the toning indicates no silver content-not 35 percent anyway. Just an opinion,I'm no expert in any way. Very cool find,hang onto that one!

 

[diggingthe1]

Nice find, you will have a few of us going over our war nickels!! Hope you solve and have a rare one!!

 

[david680]

I admit to being ignorant and this is a little off topic, but... how profitable can it be to counterfeit a nickel? Seems to me that the profit margin at best might be 2 cents a coin. There had to be a more lucrative way to spend all that time and energy. JMHO
HH
dts

In the 1940's a nickel would actually buy something, and if you could come out a couple of cents ahead on thousands of them, it might have been worth your time, particularly if you were substituting a cheaper metal for it.

 

[david680]

Surely a transitional mistake of some kind,the toning indicates no silver content-not 35 percent anyway. Just an opinion,I'm no expert in any way. Very cool find,hang onto that one!

Maybe, but I've seen many silver coins with similar toning. You might be right about the wrong silver content, as in this is a defective blank that is higher in silver content than it is supposed to be. That would explain the higher tone also.

 

[Deft Tones]

Ok, I swept all my war nickels and they all ring up on my atpro a 52-53...but...

I found a 1943 S that hits a solid 66 every time no matter angle swept.

In the ground I'm sure it read low seventies when I found it.

Still, a solid 66 vdi, what's up with that?

 

[BigWaveDave]

Still, a solid 66 vdi, what's up with that?

 

[Scrappy]

WHATS UP WIT DAT?!

 

[Ogre1190]

Nazi counterfeit? I heard they tried it with US dollars...maybe they experimented with smaller denominations, too? 😐

 

[Deft Tones]

I am now hooked. WTF?

I just ran 27 war nickels past the V3i set-up 5.3 coil. Using my own program, 26 hit at VDI #18-19 - exactly how I'd expect them to sound/look.

Then sweep the 27th, and the VDI #45 is a lock. But get this, the 22.5 frequency shows an abnormal ramp up/down on the spectragraph not consistent with normal war nickels.

Higher silver content?

 

[Tuberale]

Hope someone will sort it out.

 

[david680]

As to the question of the wrong blank, that could be a real possibility. Per Breen, the Philadelphia mint produced War Nickels on obsolete cupro-nickel planchets in 1942, 1943, and 1944. The San Francisco mint produced a 1942 Copper Nickel piece with a reverse of 1941 (possibly unique), and the Philadelphia mint produced several 1946 nickels on wartime silver planchets. There are also many possibilities as to these being struck on planchets for foreign coins, as minterrornews.com describes a Bolivian issue struck on a war nickel blank. That article notes that there were around 950 coins minted at US mints for foreign countries since 1875. I think the highest concentration of those would have been during WWII.

The problem with this being a US cupro-nickel blank is still that it appears to be silver, and that it rings up to high.

Not much there that is different, just providing some sourcing and confirmation.

 

[Msbeepbeep]

That is one mysterious nickel!

Congrats on your finds nice bunch!

So the mix of metals is "off" in this nickel.
A little snafoo at the mint.
A mischievous mint employee.
Forigen coin blank.
All plausible reasons.

Now you have everybody checking their war nickels!
.....let me see, where are mine?
Gotta check them!

 

[BigWaveDave]

Originally I tested the nickel with my silver test kit.... But I was also deep into my 18 pack of Michelob Light.
I gotta retest this thing. Later tonight, after my neice's recital, I will take my time, and post the results..
I am leaning towards higher silver content, as the evidence is pointing that way. The funny thing, is that dull thud sound it gives when dropped on my granite. That's got me all WTF... I wish I was competent enough to post/upload a video, make it even better to confuse us all...

 

[ecmjamsit]

Find a precious metals dealer with an XRF machine. X ray fluorescence will determine the alloy composition! Hallenbecks in Colorado Springs has one and they charge $5 for a walk in. If you try to sell them metals, they will test it in their machine before they will buy it.