can anyone identify this token?

[stlcardinalsfan]

posted this on several forums and no one seems to know what its from or how old it is. my grandfather was a trucker for many years and he used to trade coins and tokens on the road and then give them to me and my brother. this is one of them

john pickrell
southbend
ind.



5C inside of a star

 

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[Mackaydon]

John Pickrell listed on the 1920 census in South Bend, IN, says he was a retail merchant and owned a cigar store.

1930 he is listed in South Bend, and his occupation is listed as an engineer in a natatorium (Google it!! LOL)

The earliest city directory I found for South Bend is 1936. Unfortunately, John Pickrell died Jan 25th of that year.
Source: help me identify these tokens please - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
Don.........
__________________

 

[garren]

John Pickrell listed on the 1920 census in South Bend, IN, says he was a retail merchant and owned a cigar store.

1930 he is listed in South Bend, and his occupation is listed as an engineer in a natatorium (Google it!! LOL)

The earliest city directory I found for South Bend is 1936. Unfortunately, John Pickrell died Jan 25th of that year.
Source: help me identify these tokens please - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
Don.........
__________________

Yes...and I believe the cigar store may have been called the Star Cigar Store. I found a listing for him in the 1912 South Bend directory. Directories as far back as 1906 show him to be in the cigar and tobacco business. Also I posted a clipping from the 1920 census that Don found. Hope this helps.

 

[stlcardinalsfan]

oh wow!

that makes sense with the star on it, very cool

how much would this be worth? couple bucks? (not that i would sell it....will always keep it sense my grand father gave it to me)

thanks guys!

 

[garren]

Sorry...had to post one more...this is the listing in the 1908 directory showing him as the proprietor of the Star Billiard Room and Cigar Store....pretty cool! After 1920 the directories listed him as having several different occupations. From lensmaker to salesman and lastly engineer.

 

[stlcardinalsfan]

John Pickrell listed on the 1920 census in South Bend, IN, says he was a retail merchant and owned a cigar store.

1930 he is listed in South Bend, and his occupation is listed as an engineer in a natatorium (Google it!! LOL)

The earliest city directory I found for South Bend is 1936. Unfortunately, John Pickrell died Jan 25th of that year.
Source: help me identify these tokens please - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
Don.........
__________________

thats actually my post!

i posted it on there and never checked it. guess someone answered on there :P

 

[Mackaydon]

Yes, you'll also note one poster on that other site I cited gave you another lead that you may wish to check out.
Don.......

 

[idahotokens]

That token is listed in Wagaman's Indiana Trade Tokens book with no comments regarding dates, but Don and Garren have it nailed. Wagaman shows a "rarity" of 9 (2-4 known $3.50), but that is from 1981 and should be taken with a grain of salt. Values for IN tokens, especially from the larger towns like SB, are fairly low, so I wouldn't expect it to go for a whole lot (say under $15) if you were to auction it. How about posting your pics on TokenCatalog.com for the good of the hobby? Or, with your permission, I could do it.
John in the Great 208

 

[stlcardinalsfan]

That token is listed in Wagaman's Indiana Trade Tokens book with no comments regarding dates, but Don and Garren have it nailed. Wagaman shows a "rarity" of 9 (2-4 known $3.50), but that is from 1981 and should be taken with a grain of salt. Values for IN tokens, especially from the larger towns like SB, are fairly low, so I wouldn't expect it to go for a whole lot (say under $15) if you were to auction it. How about posting your pics on TokenCatalog.com for the good of the hobby? Or, with your permission, I could do it.
John in the Great 208

only 2 to 4 known? i wonder where my grandfather got it at.....also have some other tokens 1 from goodmans wondershow, and a couple other "good for 5cetns trade" generics


sure you can post the pics i cant get the site to load
credit the photos to J Abney (me)

 

[idahotokens]

Let me clarify the statement about "2-4 known". When tokens were ordered, at least 100 of them were ordered. Usually there were a lot more, like 500 or 1000, but seldom as many as 10,000. They usually "circulated" in and out of the business and either the outfit went out of business or the tokens were discontinued. Often when that happened, those on hand were destroyed in some manner, leaving a fraction still out there. Years later, when somebody took on the task of writing a catalog of a state's tokens, and if they decided to put in a rarity figure, they checked their own collection plus the collections of other collectors they knew. So, what Lloyd Wagaman meant by "2-4 known" was that he had been made aware of 2 to 4 of these. It is human nature not to show all your cards, so if his collecting friend said he had one, he may not have said that he also had 20 more stashed away. Plus, since the book came out, others may have been uncovered, so you always have to use rarity figures with caution.

Your grandfather may well have done like a lot of other guys did. When he was in South Bend, he went into Pickrell's place, got a quarter's worth of tokens from the guy at the counter, then played cards in the back room for a while. This one may have been the only one he didn't lose (or spend at the candy counter) and he found it in his pocket when he got home to MO.

A lot of tokens got recycled during the scrap drives during WWII if the businesses that used them were no longer around. A lot more got scattered to the four winds. It would be nice if they could talk...

John in the Great 208

 

[stlcardinalsfan]

Let me clarify the statement about "2-4 known". When tokens were ordered, at least 100 of them were ordered. Usually there were a lot more, like 500 or 1000, but seldom as many as 10,000. They usually "circulated" in and out of the business and either the outfit went out of business or the tokens were discontinued. Often when that happened, those on hand were destroyed in some manner, leaving a fraction still out there. Years later, when somebody took on the task of writing a catalog of a state's tokens, and if they decided to put in a rarity figure, they checked their own collection plus the collections of other collectors they knew. So, what Lloyd Wagaman meant by "2-4 known" was that he had been made aware of 2 to 4 of these. It is human nature not to show all your cards, so if his collecting friend said he had one, he may not have said that he also had 20 more stashed away. Plus, since the book came out, others may have been uncovered, so you always have to use rarity figures with caution.

Your grandfather may well have done like a lot of other guys did. When he was in South Bend, he went into Pickrell's place, got a quarter's worth of tokens from the guy at the counter, then played cards in the back room for a while. This one may have been the only one he didn't lose (or spend at the candy counter) and he found it in his pocket when he got home to MO.

A lot of tokens got recycled during the scrap drives during WWII if the businesses that used them were no longer around. A lot more got scattered to the four winds. It would be nice if they could talk...

John in the Great 208

ok well 2 minor things, he wasnt from missouri, and he wasnt old enough to have been at pickrells store (he died last year...was only 74)
i know he used to trade coins with other truck drivers while on the road so maybe one of the old truckers had on them. he was a truck driver for about 30 years so no telling where he got it from. i know hes had the bag of coins that he gave me since the early 90s (im only 22 and remember seeing the coins and tokens as a small kid...he kept them in a crown royal bag)