C. SP. / Good for 5 At Bart
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  1. #1
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    C. SP. / Good for 5 At Bar

    Found this today at a vacant lot near St Paul. Can't find anything about it on tokencatalog or other sites. Can anybody help me date or otherwise identify this token?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Iron Buzz; Jul 02, 2017 at 07:55 AM.
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  2. #2

    Aug 2003
    2,073
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    That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

    Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

    John in the Great 208
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  3. #3
    us
    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by idahotokens View Post
    That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

    Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

    John in the Great 208
    Guess what... the lot that I found the token is on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul!! Awesome work!

    Can I ask how you accessed the city directories?

  4. #4
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by idahotokens View Post
    That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

    Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

    John in the Great 208
    Please feel free to post those pictures of it to tokencatalog. I probably should sign up for it, but I just have too darned many website logins as it is.
    idahotokens likes this.

  5. #5
    us
    Oct 2016
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    What that area that the bar was at looks like today in Google Street View

    (Note that the current Concord Street was railroad tracks in those days. What is now called Concord Exchange is where the Charles Spilker bar would have been located)
    idahotokens likes this.

  6. #6

    Aug 2003
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    Iron--Where you found it is good news - pretty much cements the attribution. I have been wondering why ol' Chuck Spilker used C. SP. as an abbreviation of his name - there was room for him to have his whole name put on the token. Plus the town, etc. We will never know...

    Ancestry.com has a lot of city directories. I find them very valuable in researching mavericks. Yes, it is a $ubscription $ite, but I get my money's worth out of it. Many public libraries offer free access to it from their facilities. Plus there are lots of mormon church family history centers that do as well.

    John

  7. #7

    Aug 2003
    2,073
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    What does the token measure "across the flats"?
    John

  8. #8
    us
    Oct 2016
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    I suspect this may be our guy Charley: http://us-census.mooseroots.com/l/49...harley-Spilker


    Charley Spilker - 1900 Census Record Invergrove Township, Dakota County, Minnesota, United States

    Charley Spilker lived in Dakota County, Minnesota in 1900. He was the head of the household, 48 years old, and identified as white. Charley was born in Germany around 1852, and both of his parents were born in Germany as well. In 1900, Charley was married to Mary Spilker, and they had five children named Mary, Charley, Gertrude, Clara, and Annie. He immigrated to the United States in 1878.
    Mackaydon and idahotokens like this.

  9. #9

    Aug 2003
    2,073
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    Here's the listing on tokencatalog:
    South Saint Paul, Minnesota (Dakota County), U.S.A. [CA1]
    B OCT ?
    [CA1]
    C. SP.
    GOOD FOR / 5 / AT BAR
    TC-486811 *** Image courtesy of and collection of "Iron Buzz"*** Dug in vacant lot on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul, MN. 1907 St. Paul, MN City Directory: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. (East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul.) The 1908 & 1909 City Directories have the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper" and in 1910 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

  10. #10
    us
    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by idahotokens View Post
    What does the token measure "across the flats"?
    John
    0.8" (20mm)
    idahotokens likes this.

  11. #11
    us
    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Buzz View Post
    I suspect this may be our guy Charley: http://us-census.mooseroots.com/l/49...harley-Spilker


    Charley Spilker - 1900 Census Record Invergrove Township, Dakota County, Minnesota, United States

    Charley Spilker lived in Dakota County, Minnesota in 1900. He was the head of the household, 48 years old, and identified as white. Charley was born in Germany around 1852, and both of his parents were born in Germany as well. In 1900, Charley was married to Mary Spilker, and they had five children named Mary, Charley, Gertrude, Clara, and Annie. He immigrated to the United States in 1878.
    "Inver Grove, Minn., July 19. Charles Spilker, a prominent suloon keeper, committed suicide by shooting himself. " (source)

    I love it when you don't simply find an artifact, but you find a person.

  12. #12
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    us
    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by idahotokens View Post
    Here's the listing on tokencatalog:
    South Saint Paul, Minnesota (Dakota County), U.S.A. [CA1]
    B OCT ?
    [CA1]
    C. SP.
    GOOD FOR / 5 / AT BAR
    TC-486811 *** Image courtesy of and collection of "Iron Buzz"*** Dug in vacant lot on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul, MN. 1907 St. Paul, MN City Directory: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. (East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul.) The 1908 & 1909 City Directories have the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper" and in 1910 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.
    Interesting that you found the date of death to be Aug 12, 1915, and I found a newspaper clipping that states that he committed suicide in 1897. I think we may be talking about a Charley Sr and a Charley Jr here. The 1900 census does list a son, Charley, who was 16 at the time (born in 1884).

    If this is correct, that means that Charley Sr died of suicide at age 45, and Charley Jr died of unknown causes at 31 (if it is correct that he died in 1915, as your research found).

    I have so far been unable to locate any Spilker family still living in South St Paul or Inver Grove Heights.
    Last edited by Iron Buzz; Jul 02, 2017 at 11:33 AM.

  14. #14
    us
    Mar 2011
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    Instead of the guys name, could the SP simply stand for Saint Paul? Maybe it was short for "Cheers in Saint Paul" or something similar.
    "jus cuz it's wrote down, don't make it so"

  15. #15

    Aug 2003
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    Iron--at the time, ~1907-1910, was the location of Spilker's saloon in South St. Paul, Inver Grove, or what?
    John

 

 
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