tickets and fines for detecting

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I wouldn't ask permission for the typical run of the mill park with no restrictions....

What ?? Even in Ohio ? I thought OH was different than CA ? Guess I misunderstood your earlier post.

.....The parks with perfectly manicured lawns and expensive landscaping, that where I think one should ask SOLEY out of respect.......

Your statement is "loaded". As if to imply that not-asking = lack of respect. As if to say, that someone who disputes you , is defined from the git-go as: dis-respectful . And certainly NO one wants that label put on them.

But since when is all this a "premise" ? Since when is detecting "disrespectful" ? As if it's somehow inherently evil? harmful ? etc... If all those premises were true, well then yes: Your conclusions would then be true. But I disagree with your premises, therefore all else that follows is a loaded statement.

..... It may not be off limits but it may ruffle enough feathers to become a problem,...

I don't disagree that there are folks to "may not like it". Ie.: their "feathers might get ruffled". And sure, I certainly wish I could please every last one of them. I certainly wish everyone loved and approved of my hobby (all gardeners, all archies, etc...). But isn't there ever a time in our lives where we come to realize that it's going to be impossible to please every last lookie-lou ? Therefore sometimes in this life we *all* use a bit of discretion, to keep clear of those who might gripe, rather than trying to get them to "sign off on you". Example: Nose picking: not necessarilly illegal, but ... don't you use a bit of discretion in your timing, so as not to offend others?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

.....
1. Will I get in trouble?
2. Will it give a bad image?
3. Is it worth the effort?

1) not if gripers don't see you.

2) not if gripers don't see you.

3) yes if I find old coins.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Your missing the point Tom.

In Ohio we have respect and courtesy...

It doesn't matter what the written law is... I'm talking about an unwritten one.

There are no laws about relieving oneself in the non fiction section of the Public Library... but we don't do it because it's disrespectful and frowned upon.

Don't bother looking up public urination laws Tom... I talking about dropping a deuce out the side of one's shorts!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

In Ohio we have respect and courtesy...

It doesn't matter what the written law is... I'm talking about an unwritten one.--Nugs

By asking to detect where there is no restriction it may put metal detecting on the radar of someone that may have not given it a thought otherwise. By treating detecting as something that is more harmful to a park than other activities ,that also sheds negative light on the hobby. I think one has to think about the overall aspect of the hobby rather than what makes them feel good.

And that's YOUR OPINION...

But that is just not how human nature works... people get mad when people do things without permission... they don't get mad because somebody asked permission.

Yet somehow when it comes to metal detecting I'm expected to believe the exact opposite!

Asking permission has never caused a restriction to be put in place... actually the exact opposite is true.

It does not give the impression we cause harm... it gives the impression we respect an individual.

When I asked permission at one of the nice parks I was told "Sure go ahead, just stay away from the manicured lawns and gardens."

Now had I detected those areas I would have been run off, but by asking I was directed to the areas where it wasn't a problem for them.

I asked permission to hunt the Old Roney's Point Hospital, nobody is allowed there and it heavily posted. I was granted access and told to stay out of the buildings.

The care taker is a officer with the WV State Police and you can read stories about him running folks off online.

So asking permission has worked out really well for me, and I have yet to see a verified example of where it has caused restrictions to be put in place.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

This is getting real old and I now understand what happen else where.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... In Ohio we have respect and courtesy...

Yup. Here in CA too. And I consider md'ing to be "respectful and courteous"

.... There are no laws about relieving oneself in the non fiction section of the Public Library.....

Sure there is. There's laws forbidding public urination.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I have yet to see a verified example of where it has caused restrictions to be put in place.

What do you consider to be a "restriction" ? Is someone saying "no" a "restriction" ? Or are you referring to an actual written rule or law, that pops up in city codes, from then-going-forward ?

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Sure there is. There's laws forbidding public urination.

See this is a perfect example of how one does not thoroughly read a post. Had you continued reading you would clearly see I was talking about defecation not urination

As clearly stated in my post... "Don't bother looking up public urination laws Tom... I'm talking about dropping a deuce out the side of one's shorts!"

Yet in a hurry to disagree and provide counter point we rushed to the keyboard to respond now didn't we.

There are no laws about relieving oneself in the non fiction section of the Public Library... but we don't do it because it's disrespectful and frowned upon.

Don't bother looking up public urination laws Tom... I talking about dropping a deuce out the side of one's shorts!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

What do you consider to be a "restriction" ? Is someone saying "no" a "restriction" ? Or are you referring to an actual written rule or law, that pops up in city codes, from then-going-forward ?

Yes an actual written restriction strictly imposed because somebody asked permission.

Like the example I provided for Erie County NY where they tried to impose restrictions because they observed people digging.

Why documented examples? Because I provided a documented example that supported my theory... it's only fair you do the same.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Glad that got cleared up and the thread is back on track now.

Yeah we already know you crap wherever you want, on whatever you want, no big mystery solved there Scoobie!

When you use those no trespassing signs as TP... aren't you afraid of staples?

 

[kayakpat]

it all goes to respect for others private property. Public does not mean you, a public city park in miami is owned by the citizens of miami is taken care of and paid for by the citizens of miami, if your from cleveland in the miami park you are a guest, Everything is owned by somebody or authority, government, business, trust whatever. If you don't own it you have no rights. Have some respect, USA public equals 347 million citizens including past and future citizens, same applys to local authorities,

 

[Tom_in_CA]

See this is a perfect example of how one does not thoroughly read a post. Had you continued reading you would clearly see I was talking about defecation not urination.......

I read that entire part. I did not miss that. I probably should have more clearly replied that there are laws about not only public urination, but also defication. Not sure how it would be worded (if those exact words are used), but ........ somehow, some way ...... I'm sure there's laws that cover that.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yes an actual written restriction strictly imposed because somebody asked permission.
.....

Nugs, thanx for clarifying the type "restrictions" you were referring to. Yes I'm prepared to give you some examples. But first, I want to ask why you wouldn't include a "no" as also being a "restriction" ? Why are you only seeking examples that resulted in actual written-down rules or signs, etc... ?

Are you inferring that a "no" doesn't apply to others as well ?

Bear in mind that we live in a lightening fast information age of the internet. So if someone gets a "no" from somewhere, picture this: Later on, they read on a web forum, where someone else is asking "is detecting allowed in such & such city park" or "such & such state beaches", etc.... The person who received the "no" from that entity reads the forum post. They chime in, to forewarn the md'r, that md'ing at that location is not allowed. So the inquirer is thankful that he learned ahead of time, from those-in-the-know, that md'ing is not allowed there. Right ?

But in your case, it sounds like you're not accepting that "no" as constituting an actual rule. Am I understanding you correctly ?

 

[kayakpat]

Kemper" I don't have problem , but it is not mine, however no matter where you go if its not yours you should respect the fact someone owns it and they may or may not restricts you. So you should be aware of that, that all

 

[cudamark]

it all goes to respect for others private property. Public does not mean you, a public city park in miami is owned by the citizens of miami is taken care of and paid for by the citizens of miami, if your from cleveland in the miami park you are a guest, Everything is owned by somebody or authority, government, business, trust whatever. If you don't own it you have no rights. Have some respect, USA public equals 347 million citizens including past and future citizens, same applys to local authorities,

If "public' doesn't mean you or me, who does it mean? Do guests from somewhere else fall under different rules than the locals? "if you don't own it you have no rights"......I don't even know where to start there.....

 

[cudamark]

There seems to be two camps here.......one where we are subjects to government and only granted permission by royal decree.....and the other where we are considered free citizens who have unalienable rights to pursue our happiness unless restricted by law. In the absence of a specific law, I'm going to pursue my happiness while doing my best not to intentionally upset others or unintentionally cut my own throat.

 

[Molemann]

I think it is more about defiling battle grounds where people fought and died. I am sure that most of those with relatives lost in battle would not want a bunch of people digging up those grounds. Think about it.

 

[kayakpat]

cudamark I wrote who the public is, if you read it. if you can't understand that concept of public vs cudamark good luck to you thinking you can do what you want.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Nugs, thanx for clarifying the type "restrictions" you were referring to. Yes I'm prepared to give you some examples. But first, I want to ask why you wouldn't include a "no" as also being a "restriction" ? Why are you only seeking examples that resulted in actual written-down rules or signs, etc... ?

Are you inferring that a "no" doesn't apply to others as well ?

Bear in mind that we live in a lightening fast information age of the internet. So if someone gets a "no" from somewhere, picture this: Later on, they read on a web forum, where someone else is asking "is detecting allowed in such & such city park" or "such & such state beaches", etc.... The person who received the "no" from that entity reads the forum post. They chime in, to forewarn the md'r, that md'ing at that location is not allowed. So the inquirer is thankful that he learned ahead of time, from those-in-the-know, that md'ing is not allowed there. Right ?

But in your case, it sounds like you're not accepting that "no" as constituting an actual rule. Am I understanding you correctly ?

I would consider "no" a restriction specific to that ONE individual. Unless of course they also happened to ask permission for everybody to detect.

A yes or no could depend on how one asks, how they look, how they present themselves, etc...

Providing a written restriction eliminates that variable. Let's say you post an example if an individual that was told no... I could claim his attitude or demeanor have prompted the negative response and not the premise of metal detecting.

I would also like to make a correction to your statement, as I'm not suggesting one ask permission, I'm suggesting one should ask if they care.

Maybe a restriction exists and they don't care as long as you retrieve targets carefully.

Maybe detecting is allowed but digging is not... as in the case of some Cleveland Parks "surface mining" only.

Maybe no restrictions exist but they don't want people on the grass in certain areas.

 

[etex]

I would think there is probably not a acre of land in north America that in the past 10,000 years somebody has not died on. So, think about it. We might as well give up and sell our detectors.