Latest on the Iron Door Cave

[Solar1953]

OK, I'm still a newbie here, but haven't seen or heard anything lately on the so-called "Iron Door Cave" in the Wichita Mountains. I have sort of a personal interest in this story in that Belle Starr is a very distant cousin. She was Belle Shirley before she married Sam Starr, and since my own last name is Shirley, I'd like to find out all I can about this mystery. I seriously doubt that she had anything to do with a Railroad car door being dragged up into the rocky Wichitas, mainly since I spent a career as a Railroader, I KNOW what a baggage car door would have weighed; not only that, but very FEW were entirely made of iron. Most, of that period, were wooden doors, perhaps with an iron frame, but never entirely made of iron. If that had been the case, it would have been FAR too bulky an item to have dragged up into the rocky environs of the Wichitas by horseback. BUT, other items of information gathered over the years leads me to believe that there is something to this mystery. So what is the latest anyone has heard?

 

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[milk86]

Have not heard anything about the door. But my grandmother on my fathers side told stories of Belle coming to visit her family and the family would give her food all she had to do was ask. She grew up around McAlester area. outside of the town but just thought I would mention the bigger town.

 

[Solar1953]

Have not heard anything about the door. But my grandmother on my fathers side told stories of Belle coming to visit her family and the family would give her food all she had to do was ask. She grew up around McAlester area. outside of the town but just thought I would mention the bigger town.

The "Iron Door Cache" is pretty well known among treasure hunters, but I haven't heard anything new on the subject in years. It is generally accepted to be somewhere north of Treasure Lake, but that leaves a lot to the imagination. There is at least one account of it being spotted up near Mount Pinchot, which IS north of Treasure Lake, but quite a ways North! Nothing has been posted about this particular treasure hoard in years, and I have been wondering if ANY new information about it has come to light?

 

[adamhartzke]

my wife and i have decided we are going to try to go after this.
we have checked and there are 4 accounts of people from 1910 to 1933 that found the door, but didnt know what it was and found out at a later time and couldnt find their way back to the spot, what we have heard was it was located northeast in a very deep canyon on the side of elk mountain, and that the only reason those people had found it was seeing a reflection around sundown when they were there.
the accounts are kind of bizarre, one guy said he left a mound of stones near the path but when he came back they were gone.
belle star had marked the area for one of her people by hammering a rail road spike in a tree near the correct path, it was found in 1955, but not knowing what it was they cut the tree down.

we are seriously interested in this and plan on making a venture in the fall once we map out a path to try, if anyone has any other helpful knowledge we would love it if you shared with us.

 

[JPS]

Iron Door

I have been to this area once to look for this and the two lakes have signs backwards from my topo map.
I am interested to go for a day or two sometime in the next 2 weeks.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

This area is in the Wichita Mountains National Wildlife Refuge and is illegal to treasure hunt in.

 

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OK, I'm still a newbie here, but haven't seen or heard anything lately on the so-called "Iron Door Cave" in the Wichita Mountains. I have sort of a personal interest in this story in that Belle Starr is a very distant cousin. She was Belle Shirley before she married Sam Starr, and since my own last name is Shirley, I'd like to find out all I can about this mystery. I seriously doubt that she had anything to do with a Railroad car door being dragged up into the rocky Wichitas, mainly since I spent a career as a Railroader, I KNOW what a baggage car door would have weighed; not only that, but very FEW were entirely made of iron. Most, of that period, were wooden doors, perhaps with an iron frame, but never entirely made of iron. If that had been the case, it would have been FAR too bulky an item to have dragged up into the rocky environs of the Wichitas by horseback. BUT, other items of information gathered over the years leads me to believe that there is something to this mystery. So what is the latest anyone has heard?

i live in Lawton and have heard stories myself and a former boss said her father had seen the door. The treasure was from Jessie James robbery. Brother Frank lived in Fletcher, OK the former owner of the bank there said she new Frank and he was very nice. He lived outside of Fletcher. She has been deceased for over forty years. My former boss is a few years older than me, still working. I have been meaning to speak with her. You can email me back if you care to, but I don't check my email very often. I will give you my # in a more secure forum if you are interested. Be patient. Zygymy

 

[RGINN]

Cool to see interest in this old tale. I doubt that Belle Starr ever set foot Wichitas. I have been all over that part of the Wichitas from Elk Mountain down to Treasure Lake in the last 40 years, and never spotted an iron door. I can tell you it's different every time you go in there and sometimes hard to go back to a spot you were at just the week before. I thought there might not be an actual door. I've heard stories about the Spanish mixing animal blood with cement to make it stronger, and that would make it look brown, so it might be a plastered over opening. It could just be a reference to an iron stain on the rocks, as there's plenty of those. I'm a little doubtful of all those eye witness finders accounts. The fenced off portion of the refuge might be a better bet, but you ain't gonna get in there. Wish you folks luck. And do not take your detectors, shovels, picks, or other treasure huntin equipment in there as that's all illegal. No law against lookin around, takin pictures, maybe noting some GPS co-ordinates.

 

[BADWOLF]

Good day all. Good to see there is interest in this tale. I've been researching this yarn for sometime now; in fact the Iron door cache was one of two stories that inspired me to begin searching such flights of fancy. I'm not one to tell anyone whether they are right or wrong, just to offer information. Unfortunately I am currently not able to search anymore, just research. At one time my job afforded me the access to sights all over the the lower 48, but economic turn down changes things. As for the story, you are pretty much right on the info you have. But let me add this for thought. There are more than one story pertaining to an "Iron Door" cache, some going back farther than others. Not all center around the Wichita's. These other stories must be taken into consideration based on the human factor, how these tales get spread and past on. I have found on more than one occasion a story had been transplanted from is original location, and spread to areas it never happened. Some into a completely different state. I will stick to the Wichita's though. With in the Wichita's I have found two stories that adhere to the known legends. Both of which have similarities, but also their own differences based on sightings. Elk mountain has the majority of sightings, the latest from the 1970's from a college kid hiking in the area around Elk mountain. And of course when the kid found the door, he had no knowledge of the legend. But based off his observations he described the door as large, bound with iron straps and chains, with a rather large and rusted looking lock. Another account going back to the mid 1800's with a group of treasure hunters following an old map from a spaniard on his death bed. The spaniard spun a tale of Indian slaves, multitudes of gold, a giant iron bound door, an Indian uprising, and a swift escape where only a handful survived. This account would go along with the Spanish occupation of the area in the 17th and 18th centuries when the Spanish used Indian slaves in area mines, we know this as historical fact. But as always On my way! thing happens and the searches cannot either find the door or other factors cause them to leave hastily. We also must take into account for natural change. Wind, rain, landslides, and earthquakes. We are talking about an area famous for boulders the size of houses. One good shake and everything moves or rolls. Now the other accounts of an iron door cache suggest that there is another one in the area. Some say Belle Starr gang, others say The James gang. Either way the stories stand putting these account in the area of mount Pinchot. Only these accounts say the door is much smaller, framed on iron with a lock. Much like an old rail road car door possibly. Now I don't believe that a gang hitting a train would even consider pulling a job and dragging a car door numerous miles while attempting to escape, ridiculous. Bunutpossible

 

[BADWOLF]

But I would consider It possible that a gang with the foresight to establish a place, say a small cave with a narrow opening just big enough for such a door to be anchored into, if the gang possesses such an instrumental, and knowledgeable individual.
But I could ramble on for hours on this. As I said over the years I have come across more and more stories with references to iron doors, large and small. But for now I sit back and wait. The stories tend to take on life of their own, you just have to weed out what doesn't fit.
As others have said treasure hunting in the Wichita's is illegal, but it isn't illegal to look.
I don't believe the Spanish version is on Elk mountain, but it is close to it.
I don't believe Belle Starr's gang had an instrumental individual to set a door into stone, but the James gang did.
I do believe there are two separate caves in the area with iron doors. One large, one small, the evidence is too compelling.
Oh and for the record, The Spanish Iron door story has been verified in the archives in Spain, food for thought.

The thoughts and ramblings of
The Badwolf

 

[RGINN]

Cool post, BADWOLF. The evidence for Spanish 'occupation' of the Wichitas is slim at best. Pretty good evidence they checked them out, and there is the old Spanish Trail that ran along the north fork of the Red River, and possibly an early mission site over in Devil's Canyon. When considering any Spanish artifact found in the Wichitas, you need to remember that Kiowas and Comanches regularly raided into Spanish territories and this could be plunder the Indians captured and later lost. I can find no valid reference to the Spanish enslaving local Indians to work in the mines in this area. The southern plains tribes have a great tradition of oral history and this is something they would have talked about and passed down, and the Kiowa and Comanche elders I knew never spoke of being enslaved by the Spanish. They had some tales of raiding them, fighting the Spanish Lancers, capturing their women and children, but not working for them. Ever.

 

[BADWOLF]

Respectively you are right. My statement about the Native Americans being enslaved was a general reference and not meant to encompass all Native American tribes.
Historic records do show that as far back as Francisco Vasquez de Coronado during his exploration of the new world, as far north as Kansas, used Native American slaves for various tasks. For the most part, During the early years of Spain's forward expansion into the new world, Native American slavery was a lucrative business. The first recorded African slave didn't show till 1600's brought in on a Spanish ship.
As you had stated, I have not found any outstanding references to the Kiowa or the Comanche being enslaved, but as well, I do not find any reference to the Spanish, explorers/missionaries/or prospectors, coming on to contact with either of those tribes till the early part of the 18th century.
Spanish exploration and occupation had already been going on since the 15th century.
Records shows that the Comanche mostly resided in the central plains of eastern Colorado and western Kansas between 1700 and 1750. As for the Kiowa, they moved south from Montana into the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in the 17th and 18th centuries. Then finally into the southern plains in the 19th century. In 1867 the Kiowa were then moved to a reservation in southwestern Oklahoma.
But regardless, I'm glad to see interest in this legend. The one I'm most interested in is the version based on the Spanish story.
So are you local to the Wichita mountain are?

 

[RGINN]

I misunderstood that your statement about enslavement applied to the southern plains tribes. You're dead on about the rest. Both tribes, Kiowa and Comanche, migrated or were pushed out of the north and the introduction of Spanish horses allowed them to become lords of the southern plains. In 1867 you're talking about the Medicine Lodge treaty and that was considered merely a suggestion by most native signers. They still considered that where ever the diminishing buffalo herds still roamed, from Canada on down into Mexico 'their' land and it should be their right to travel and live there. It did wind up that the Kiowa resided mainly to the north of the Wichitas and the Comanches to the south, which is pretty much the way it is today. I live in Colorado now, but was born in Caddo County, Oklahoma, and lived there for about 50 years, north of the Wichitas, and spent a lot of time camping and hiking around there. I had treasure hunters in my family and first heard the tale about the cave with the iron door from my grandma when I was about 6 years old. I keep my eyes open, but still haven't spotted it when I'm down there.

 

[treasure_hunter_2004]

my buddy and I will be giving this a go sometime next month hoping. I realize you can not treasure hunt inside the refuge but looking around is not illegal will report back to what and if we find anything!

 

[RGINN]

Best of luck, treasure hunter 2004. Take care. Remember that rattlesnakes are denned up but on sunny winter days in Oklahoma the may come out and lounge in front of the den. I have heard of a more recent sighting of the 'Cave With the Iron Door', but not my story to tell. I also have seen there is a similar legend associated with the state of Montana.