Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

[FEMF]

It's not much Sam. Hopefully Mike or Roy will look in on us, or somebody else will pick up the slack soon!
FEMF

 

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[johnmark29020]

I saw a story years ago on unsolved mysterys. Where two soldiers found a cache of gold and a old mine. This was during the construction of a then new dam.

 

[grillz]

This thread has been one of the more interesting regarding spelling and pronunciation of Castilian Spanish in old documents.. I would like to quote from "Northern New Spain, A Reasearch Guide". Under the heading "Paleography". A section having to do mainly with how the lack of writing and spelling rules can cause great frustration in attempting to translate these old documents. I hope the following quote will be of some help.

"Double and triple consonants are a curiosity. "C, N, P, R, S, and T" are the most frequently encountered. This practise leads to varying degrees of frustration especially as one tries to decipher doubled letters in a poorly written word - for example, doubled "t's" in
'ttesttamentto'.

"Further problems in reading result from the fact one and the same writer commonly transposed several letters. Modern readers are accustomed to stricter standardization, but the practise was quite acceptable in colonial paleography. "C" and "V" were often interchangable, as were "B" and "V", "S, C and V," "Y and I," "J and X." "U and V," "J and G," - to name only some of the more common. 'Vecino' may well be spelled 'Bezino' in the same document".

"Other orthographic variations include dropping the first letter of words, such as 'ijo' for 'hijo', or sometimes disguising the initial letter as a nondescript scrawl. Some elisions also occur".

"These orthographic variations are actually explainable. And the the reason for these inconsistencies constitutes one of the best methods for decipherment of difficult words and passages. Most extant colonial documents were written by scribes or copyists who 'listened to the text being dictated'. Behind the written Spanish word is usually the spoken word. A mere change in vocal empasis is often reflected by the scribes choice of consonants, just as a change in speed of dictation often led to the employment of abbreviations. Many of the copyists lacked extensive education, with the result that they wrote down what they heard rather than what was orthographically preferred. Sometimes the copyist knew neither word nor correct grammatical form". End of quote.

What is being said is that there were no rules of writing and spelling, so no rules were broken. In my own experience with this, I had trouble with the word, "embio" and "embiarse". I checked every possible word and verb form with no luck. I finally decided to read a couple of sentences before these words to see if it would come clear. JACKPOT! The correct verb is 'ENVIAR', meaning "to send". The letters "N and V" were transposed by the copyist to "M and B". Other surprises were finding proper names with a lower case first letter, or a question ending with a period or comma, or a sentence ending in the middle with a period, and then continuing with a captitolized new word for the continuation. Only by eliminating the period did the sentence make sense.

Other inconsistencies are the joining of two words such as "dar le" into 'darle' or "se lo" into 'selo', this word appears in a sentence as "a junto, a selo". If it's one word I haven't found it yet, if it's two words, I haven't as of yet been able to figure what it is this writer is trying to say.
Anybody want to try "generos", or "huissenes" or "sin dazada"?

 

[johnmark29020]

Wow. That says it all. Kund of like above the mine. Could mean on topof the mine,or it could mean up the hill from the mine. Example.
My dad told me this gem once.
Go above the shed and get me the lawnmower.
Great post. Thanks

 

[RWLJ]

12-27-12

Aletter to Johnny Terrell, Duane Hale and Robert Kyker

Iam sending you this letter in care of Bob Kyker.

AgainI want to thank you all for you efforts in exploring and doing research on theSpider Rock Mysteries, and for making available some of the knowledge you have.

Mosttreasure hunters are like different religions, they believe they have thecorrect key that will get them to heaven. I started learning a long time ago, no matter how strong you believe insomething it may not get you where you want to go. If we cannot consider we are wrong onsomething we blind ourselves from the greater vision and our greatestpotential.

Iam well acquainted with a man that wasn’t seeking treasures, but wanted to knowfor himself, where the Garden of Eden was, as well as the high and loftymountain where John the Beloved was taken to and saw the New Jerusalem steppingdown out of the ‘Heaved Up Place’. Thatman has found the place of the Seven underground Cities called Cibola. Long before Christ said to store yourtreasures in Heaven, that place was called the Tree of Life in the center ofthe Garden of Eden. I guarantee all ofyou can be blessed with that discovery if you seek the Kingdom of Heaven first,and then all else can be added. I am nottrying to convince you that there is an authority out there on exactly wherethe three of the lost cities are at that are represented on three of the SpiderRock Maps.

Bob,you have put together things that tie the three rocks together. The discoverer of them three Lost Citiescould give you a hundred times the clues than what you have. #1 you need to recognize that the person orpersons that placed those rocks there did so for two purposes.

#1so history wouldn’t be lost, and to make it look like the information was leftby the Spanish, he wanted to tell a story without Native Americans wiping outhis family and friends.
#2it was red herring to get miners and treasure hunters away from the real site.

Thisman was someone that wanted to get the truth out for the benefit of futuregenerations. He took a lead sheet andwrote upon it, the leaders of the Mountain Meadow Massacre who wereresponsible, and rolled the sheet up and hid it in the top of the fireplacethat he had built. He placed it betweena metal shield and the mantle at the top of the fireplace. The lead scroll and the metal shield in frontof the fireplace together created oxidization, and a strip of the shield thewidth of the lead scroll after about a hundred years fell out of the fireplaceand it was found on the floor in front of the fireplace and you could see whereit had fallen from. This man was veryclever in placing things where they could be found at a later time.

Thisman was smart enough to know that treasure hunters are more likely than not totake the easy path. This was the guythat left the sheep skin in Old Mexico and was the same man that did the samething in several other locations for the same purpose.

Oneof the first things you people need to realize is that those that take the easybroad path will succor in to the simple story or easy conclusions that areseldom accurate.

Goingway back to the land of Alpha, Taurus the Bull of Heaven, the Bull the A orAlpha standing for the place of Beginning, the Seven Cities of Cibola, Cibolameaning Bull or Alpha, is where Abraham and Adam originated from. In more than one document of ancient minesone of the mines of that area is called the Purest Conception or theConception. You can see where thefoundations of several houses were destroyed so it would not berecognized. This particular spot is notrepresented on your Spider Rock Maps. This area was found by a person who was seeking the original PromisedLand and its sites, a land that was choice above all other lands in manyrespects.

Ifyou are hanging on to 2,000 years of false traditions then you will reject whatI am telling you here, which will be for the best until you can put truth aheadof all things, and search all things and hold fast to that which is good. Anyone that puts any of his religious beliefsin front of the laws and testimonies of truth will continue to stumble and notfind the places of the Spider Rock Maps.

Peoplethat can stand on their own two feet and love the truth above all else will havethe strength to start putting together some of the pieces of the puzzle I amgiving and will be able to make sense out of them, starting from the time ofAdam-who’s tomb happens to be a place in Southern Utah. That will become a reality that can well beproven to the world and all those that have any sense to look at reality in allfields of science. The Ancients thechildren of Adam as they spread out, when they found places that reflectedtheir original places they used the background of that place to help tell thestory of the original place. Some ofthose places were named after the original places, they became juniors. This is where scholars have gone wrong allaround the world; they find a junior place and try to make it into theoriginal.

Icould give you hundreds of examples, but I will give you one good example. In Jeremiahs Jerusalem you have threeCherubim, two of them on the north end destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fireand brimstone (the Hopi and Natives across America refer to them as the twinsor mighty twins.). When the children of Sethlived on that holly mountain they named the constellation after the places andthings that were on and around that holly mountain. At that time their heavens were to the eastand the earth or basin land was to the west. When they named the constellations after the places that were to theeast of the earth, they named the constellations in the sky heaven after theoriginal heavens that were to the east.

Theoriginal Christians and righteous men of the past, weren’t interested in makingclear to breakers of law where great people and great nations took theirtreasures to their ancestors homeland, neither do I, but if you want to helpmankind to wake up and deal with the real facts of reality. Don’t look for copycat salt rivers that are inArizona or Texas or any place else, don’t look at a copycat Double Mountain inTexas, don’t look at the Stonewall mountain that is in the shape of a horseshoein Texas, and don’t look for the rivers that were called the Arms of God, whichis nothing more than where God will gather the righteous to Mount Zion in thelast days. There were two or three menthat did a lot of Red Herring and the Jesuits and Indians did a lot before them.

Theseare some facts you can log down in your notebook. The Rhoads Mine, the Brigham Young Mine orthe Sacred Indian Mine or Mines, the locations of these mines were made to lookas if they were in the Uintah Mountains, which wasn’t exactly a lie if you knowwhere the first Uintah Mountains are at, that was Red Herring to throw off theUS Government that was in the West surveying, when their main reason-and someof the Mormons knew it- was that they were looking for the Sacred Mines. These mines were known about before BrighamYoung headed west and before the US Government took the Southwest. That was their main incentive, was to beatthe Mormons to rich mines or treasure houses.

JamesWhite’s professed story of going through the Grand Canyon, which I don’tbelieve, and his story of a great cave of Aztec Treasure was to entice WesleyPowel and his surveyors to get them killed in the rapids of the GrandCanyon. As much as I dislike WesleyPowel, I would give him the credit for being the first white man in modern timeto go through those rapids. In thePhoenix Gazette in 1909, you have a guy by the name of Kincaid, likely an aliasfor a kindred of Caleb Rhoads, who supposedly brought in a professor by thename of Jordan from the Smithsonian and showed him this elaborate citadel 2,000feet up the walls of the canyon on a shelf. From the center tunnels went out like the spokes of a wheel, he wastalking about the place that the Aspermont Spider Rock Map represents.

Forsomeone to consider the Grand Canyon as the ancestor home of any race is nottoo smart. For there to be a citadel2,000 feet up the walls of the canyon could be looked at as dumber than dumb. Many would prefer to take their chances infighting their enemies than throw their life away in a place that would be almostimpossible to access. When the Hopi tellyou that their Underworld is in the Grand Canyon, it could be for no otherreason but to get you lost in non-reality, a place you could never findanything, even if there was a race stupid enough to build something there, howwould they maintain it or how would it serve any purpose of practicalitywhatsoever. The idea of the Homelandbeing in the Superstitious Mountains would make much better sense. Even though that was part of more Red Herring,it was easier to believe than the Grand Canyon nonsense.

Thosewho were familiar-over a hundred years ago-with the sacred mines knew that thatplace was the original Superstitious Mountains. Most Indians were not just superstitious about that area, but knew theirlife was worth little if they betrayed that sacred place to the whites. The Pueblo Indian uprising was brought aboutto clean the Whiteman out of those sacred mountains when they thought theWhiteman were getting too close in their mining to things that were a lot moresacred to the Indians than gold, and this wasn’t in Southwest Texas, nor Tucsonarea, or even the phoenix area, they were kept as buffer zones to keep theSpanish or Whiteman from getting farther North.

Whenthe Spanish tortured Indians the Indians showed them where there was gold, butnot their most sacred things, and the Spanish going for the gold were keptoccupied until the Indians could rally their forces to wipe them out of thewhole area. It worked pretty well inprotecting the sacred sites. Now thesacred sites are owned privately, but that doesn’t stop corrupt governments oftoday, from doing what the Spaniards would have done if they would have knownthe whole story. Wesley Powel, theMountain Meadows Massacre and the 1680 Pueblo uprising brought about manydeaths, that wouldn’t have been necessary if it weren’t for greedy people andgovernments. Right now we are going awayfrom constitution and moral law. I don’tthink it would be healthy for anybody who has the wrong heart to pursue thingsout of time and place.

Theuse of Professor Jordan in the 1909 Phoenix Gazette account is making mockeryof Wesley Powel, who was overseeing the chaining or surveying until every linkof the chain was welded together as the newspaper clipping states. The Great Jordan River of the southwest isthe Colorado River, and the professor from the Smithsonian that was surveyingthat area was none other than Wesley Powel if you know anything aboutCryptograms and Cyphers. The mercury hehad in his trunks was evidence to a couple of Mormons that he was looking formore than just surveying the ground, along with information that the Indianssupplied them due to the questions Wesley Powel asked them about their Underworldand mines etc. left it real clear to a couple of Mormons what his real purposewas, and that is why three of his men were killed in the Tocqueville ward (not byIndians as some claimed).

Soin the Phoenix Gazette we have a story that is a masterpiece of Red Herring,but it has a number of brothers and sisters, all put in place after the MountainMeadow Massacre that was triggered by about 30 post-Mormons that joined up withthe wagon train who knew too much about the mines. I am sure there were good people among theMormons that wanted to make sure such horrible killings did not happenagain. So then you had a sister documentto the Phoenix Gazette called the Molino Document and Maps, then you had theSpider Rock Maps of Southwest Texas that was another sister. Then in the 1950s or there about popped upthe Peralta Stones, a third sister, and this isn’t logging in all the sisterstories that took place, it is just three of the most important and main ones,to make sure that nothing like the Mountain Meadows Massacre would need to takeplace again.

Whenyou look at the Peralta Stones, Molino Documents and Maps and the Spider RockMaps you can see that the author wrote his Rs the same, his Ns the same, his Esthe same, his 2s, his 3s and some of his Ls for 50 the same. You might want to take notice that the Horseor Priest Map is white stone as the Spider Rock Maps were white stone. You might want to notice that in front of thehorse on the Horse Maps Caballo is misspelled C080LL0, the Os represent thepotholes that the so-called Dutchman talked about. The real Dutchman was an ex-Mormon. The true Dutchman and a Spaniard are buriedin the place where the Rotan Rock Map shows a gravestone with a cross onit.

Let’stake another look at C080LL0 as it is spelled in front of the horse. The author’s B does not look like his otherBs on the other side of the rock it looks like an 8, he wrote that to mention80-with the 0 next to it-just as it mentions 80 on the Aspermont Rock Map. The Aspermont Rock in your different articlesis put upside down with Geology. Whenyou put it right side up the teardrop is next to the 80 written in RomanNumbers (LXXX) the way water falls in a teardrop, in this case it represents awaterfall that has been covered and hidden. The Spider Circle or the Wheel with its Spokes on the Rotan Map is whata few Mormons called Moon Lake, which none of them of today have been able tofind. In a picture in part-one of yourarticle you have the Rotan Map right side up.

Onthe left side of the Rotan Map it shows a river, a few Mormons that had thingsstraight called it Rock Creek, the ex-Mormon who passed himself off as aDutchman called it boulder Creek. Rightwest of the Spoke Wheel you have a V shape with a line across the top a symbolfor a Bulls Head. On the southwest sideof that where it shows a headstone with a cross on it you have its parallel onthe Molino Document map that shows a cross in that same area that has ancientlibrary written above it, except it is written in Spanish. So under the hill of the Rotan Map you havean Ancient Library. The Horse Stone Maprepresents the first Caballo Mountains, not the ones in New Mexico, and next tothem you have the first Organ Mountains.

TheMajority of the treasure hunters are looking to copycat name-places instead ofthe original, they want real bad to believe they are the special ones that Godhas ordained to give them the vision and bless them with wealth, when they havefailed to keep his laws and standards and have put aside the truth to have theacceptance and blessings of the world or their church. The man that found these seven cities ofCibola, was willing to give up his neighbors, his friends, his church and thesocial fads of the day. When the peoplecan put truth first that is when they will gain clear vision. I could have showed much-much more evidencethat the most corrupt could easily see but that is not the great plan.

Ihave noticed there are those who are wrapped around the Tucson area, others arewrapped around the Superstitious Mountains, others are wrapped around the GrandCanyon, others around the Tayopa mines thinking they are in Northern Mexico,others think the mines are at the Uintah Mountains or Hoyt’s Peak, they arelooking for the Josephine Mine there. Anyone that looks at the Josephine Document and cross examines it withthe Guadalupe or Molino Mine Documents and cross examines them with the ClydeRock Map, they will know that they are talking about one and the samemine. The Conception mines are next tothe Salt River branch called God’s Arm, then they could know that the ClydeRock Map is the Josephine or Guadalupe Mine and that it is next to the riverthat comes out of the Double Mountain, then they would see how accurately oneof the Peralta family Maps fits.

Iam going to close for now and will probably not say no more unless there isinterest, and I doubt if there will be any interest until people wake up out ofthe Dark Age slumber-that Isaiah talks about-when it comes to real Biblicalhistory, but I hope this saves a lot of people from throwing their lives awaychasing false rainbows.

Youcan get a copy of the Josephine Document in Steven B. Shaffer’s book Of Men andGold, on page 82.

SteveShaffer and June Blanch thought they had the Josephine Mine found on the backof Hoyt’s Peak, they failed to recognize that that was Red Herring set up byCaleb Rhoads and some Indians.

Forthe Molino Document and Maps you can go to this website http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-legends/23185-tumacacori-mission-mines-re-sister-micaela-molina-document.html

Theso-called Peralta Stone Maps are on display at a little Museum on the southwestside of the Superstitious Mountains. Youshould be able to easily pull pictures of them some place on the internet.

Greatmen are those who can put great things ahead of their personal agendas thatwould benefit all mankind. It is forthis reason the world doesn’t know where the Spider Rock Maps fit; they want tobuild the world and truth around them instead of building their life and futurearound the greater truth. It is timetreasure hunters started looking at the bigger picture of reality and put firstthe seeking or building in uniting around the standard of laws that will buildthe kingdom of heaven, then the treasures of that place will be in their hands.

R.W.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning Grillz my friend. Coffee in the kitchen? warmer there. An extremely important factor in translating old documents is to forget literal interpretations, and go or intended context. Many times they are at extreme odds with each other. As a matter of fact that applies to recent documents also hehhe.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning RW, coffee also? You posted --> others around the Tayopa mines thinking they are in Northern Mexico
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are kidding of course ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[peralta]

What happened born on fire? You said you you beleived me, worked with the jesuits connected to tumacacori, wanted to help me? Asked for a picture, then you ran.you remind me of the treasure of sierra madre movie.I warned you about cliffs like 4peaks.I you don't have my none seen map your in for surprises.beware of what is told to some people.

 

[peralta]

Hello johnmark I remember a story of a couple of military finding location of treasure at fort huachuca, east of nogales.I think the military dug it out.

 

[peralta]

The molina document is good.but changes were made to distances, throw that part out.I isn't connfpected to any other document..that I have seen.and north.in their location beware. of other treasurehunters
.the whole area has religious markings but you must be patient in observeing.observeing.
Also beware they will give you all the clues but once you find a true entry marking it might be blown and is now a deathtrap. But then you must study the map again to find the true entry.
S

 

[sailaway]

Bring a close to the search

If those of you want proof of these documents and treasure I have a photo and coordinates to the real area. Now if a "hunt" is organized I will be glad to show the participants the area and tell all I know. I was partially raised in Spain and am Native American, the area was shown to me by looking at the ART of Nature.
I have researched the massacres in the superstitions and believe I have found the location of the Jesuit massacre. The site should be the Virgon de Guadalupe mine also. The site has what I believe to be the eye of the needle, there is a structure there with a large M and a large V on top of it. The structure sits on a large 8 and next to it looks to be a -n-P. Along the edge of the P there are at the top stones placed so it says MINA. Following the curve of the P are stones placed to say VIRGON. There are 3 faults that cross here and very large ruin stones. There are several quartz veins that look to spell words. From the 8 it says Coazon. Over this area it spells Mapa. There are stones in the shape of footsteps, a large stone that looks like a sombrero, a stone that looks like the map stone that has a cross in it and two hearts. The P looks like a rounded triangle and on one side has a mark that looks just like the mine sign on the peralta stones. Next to the P is what looks like a huge face and what appears to be a dug mine entrance where the nose is. What would be the left eye is the C of Coazon and the part that turns to make the nose looks like a 7. Then a fault crosses and the stone that looks like a tablet with two hearts in it forms to be a 0. On the P in my picture you can see what appears to be a gold cross lying in plain sight.
I know the Jesuits had a 900 pound gold cross with them when the Indians attacked them. This whole site is at the end of a very narrow canyon on a steep grade. According to the map I have it says I have found the mine. It is in the Superstition Mountains and in the National forest.
I have friends in D.C. (one was a curator in the Smithsonian) and let them know what I found. I do not want to violate any laws so have not recovered it. I did go out last summer in August and look at the area. I did not make it to the actual site as the person I was with refused to go any farther uphill. In my picture it appears to be gold colored at the fault line along the P. On the south side of this same mountain there is what looks like a horse chiseled from stone. The horse is looking at what I believe is an Indian looking at an arrowhead, this picture I posted on my introduction when I joined.
Now to what I need, which is proof of the site and without plunder of the site? As a Native American I hope the site is respected as it is a sacred site, but it is also a national treasure. So I feel it is my duty to reveal the site as I have seen my name written there. This would confirm that the "Peralta" stones were the maps that were made by the Jesuit Priest.

 

[markmar]

Mike

In the Molina document , you have translated the " dos picachos " as ' two rock outcroppings " .
The " dos picachos " could be translated as " two sharp rocks " ?
For me fit better the sharp rocks in my research . Look what i mean :

 

[markmar]

And the landscape fits :

 

[johnmark29020]

Mike

In the Molina document , you have translated the " dos picachos " as ' two rock outcroppings " .
The " dos picachos " could be translated as " two sharp rocks " ?
For me fit better the sharp rocks in my research . Look what i mean :

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1053806"/>

The location that Im working has two sharpe rocks. Both rocks have holes in them. One has two points. One higher than the other. Looks like weavers needle infact. They are surrounded by a multitude of other rocks. Some taller and some smaller.
They also have holes in them. Watching the sun light move from hole to hole through out the day is interesting at the lest.
There is also a flat rock standing on a bolder. On that rock is a carving of a indian riding a horse with his bow drawn. As of hes shoot a arrow.

 

[Crow]

And the landscape fits :

View attachment 1053827

Hello Markmar

Indeed it May be the case but is the map accurate copy?



Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi, one of the biggest misakes in trying to interprete anything Literately, ignoring the "Intent"

I found many such when I translated it.

 

[markmar]

Hello Markmar

Indeed it May be the case but is the map accurate copy?

View attachment 1058725

Crow

Crow

Both symbols are accurate . Each is a different look perspective from the same spot . I have saw to happen the same with other maps from the same spot .

 

[johnmark29020]

I noticed somthing interesting. The heart trail map,and the 1915 robert simpson jacobs map are the same place. Since the stone maps werent found until the40s. I wonder where the info for the robert simpson jacobs map came from.
I wonder if they were the work of the same person.

 

[johnmark29020]

Is it possible that waltzs was part of the jesuit order. There have been a few things making me wonder.

 

[markmar]

I noticed somthing interesting. The heart trail map,and the 1915 robert simpson jacobs map are the same place. Since the stone maps werent found until the40s. I wonder where the info for the robert simpson jacobs map came from.
I wonder if they were the work of the same person.

Yes , IMO the maps are from the same region , like other 2-3 . I believe the maps were made by different authors .