BillA
Bronze Member
when I first came to Drake a dive spot was a bucket dredge off Cano, I never saw it
it was there to recover silver
it was there to recover silver
Buried Pirate Treasure in Panama
KANACKI
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Hello BillA
The Following Document you might find interesting. a mention of Island Of Cano page 71 of The World Encompassed by Sir Francis Drake , 1628. Page 71
Please note old English written at time had only broken away from official language of crown in England was Norman French so early English some words are influenced by Norman Characteristics. You will notice the spelling of the Island of Cano spelled rather different "I'and of Caines " He spent from the 6th to the 17th of March 1579.
Kanacki
The Following Document you might find interesting. a mention of Island Of Cano page 71 of The World Encompassed by Sir Francis Drake , 1628. Page 71
Please note old English written at time had only broken away from official language of crown in England was Norman French so early English some words are influenced by Norman Characteristics. You will notice the spelling of the Island of Cano spelled rather different "I'and of Caines " He spent from the 6th to the 17th of March 1579.
Kanacki
BillA
Bronze Member
thanks Kanacki, we just had a 6.3 shaker a week ago
the presumed story for Bahia Drake is that Drake beached his ship in the rio Agujitas, 9' tide but I don't think so
the presumed story for Bahia Drake is that Drake beached his ship in the rio Agujitas, 9' tide but I don't think so
KANACKI
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Hello BillA
If some of Drakes silver was actually salvaged by bucket dredge off Cano in 1932 and 10 Tons of silver was at the time 25 cent an ounce calculated by 10 tons that would equate to about 80000 dollars. The nearest accessible bucket dredge would of been from Panama canal zone.
U.S. Inflation Rate, $80,000 in 1932 to 2018
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, prices in 2018 are 1,732.90% higher than average prices throughout 1932. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.44% per year during this period, meaning the real value of a dollar decreased.
In other words, $80,000 in 1932 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,466,317.27 in 2018, a difference of $1,386,317.27 over 86 years.
The story I told many years ago. The instigator of this alleged treasure recovery flew under the radar. It happened CR was at time more concerned with treasure hunting on Cocos Island and this recovery flew under the Radar. In 1932 CR had only one patrol vessel that was mostly out of Service. So policing the coastal activities back then was rather slack. So if the story of this salvage operation was true? Perhaps in waters between the mainland and Cano 16 tons of silver might still be there?
Kanacki
If some of Drakes silver was actually salvaged by bucket dredge off Cano in 1932 and 10 Tons of silver was at the time 25 cent an ounce calculated by 10 tons that would equate to about 80000 dollars. The nearest accessible bucket dredge would of been from Panama canal zone.
U.S. Inflation Rate, $80,000 in 1932 to 2018
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, prices in 2018 are 1,732.90% higher than average prices throughout 1932. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.44% per year during this period, meaning the real value of a dollar decreased.
In other words, $80,000 in 1932 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,466,317.27 in 2018, a difference of $1,386,317.27 over 86 years.
The story I told many years ago. The instigator of this alleged treasure recovery flew under the radar. It happened CR was at time more concerned with treasure hunting on Cocos Island and this recovery flew under the Radar. In 1932 CR had only one patrol vessel that was mostly out of Service. So policing the coastal activities back then was rather slack. So if the story of this salvage operation was true? Perhaps in waters between the mainland and Cano 16 tons of silver might still be there?
Kanacki
KANACKI
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Of course that is of course the excess silver was dumped in the first place?
There appears no mention in this version of silver being jettisoned by Drake off the isle de Plata in the "book" The World Encompassed by Sir Francis Drake , 1628. However looking in context of time perhaps it was deliberate not to mention the silver being jettisoned because fear the Spanish is try to retrieve it.
Kanacki
There appears no mention in this version of silver being jettisoned by Drake off the isle de Plata in the "book" The World Encompassed by Sir Francis Drake , 1628. However looking in context of time perhaps it was deliberate not to mention the silver being jettisoned because fear the Spanish is try to retrieve it.
Kanacki
KANACKI
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If we can go back further in time. The earliest published narrative of Drake's circumnavigation in Hakluyt's The Principall Navigations , 1589. Gives the account of events regarding the capture o the treasure ship. And once again no mention of silver being thrown overboard.
You can see for yourselves below.
A rule of thumb if you want to get to the truth to such legends is get the earliest account of the alleged treasure before it becomes butchered by exaggeration by later 19 20th century authors. While in fairness back in their day they did not have access to resources. Today we have luxury to be able to get a better understanding of such stories
Kanacki
You can see for yourselves below.
A rule of thumb if you want to get to the truth to such legends is get the earliest account of the alleged treasure before it becomes butchered by exaggeration by later 19 20th century authors. While in fairness back in their day they did not have access to resources. Today we have luxury to be able to get a better understanding of such stories
Kanacki
KANACKI
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But once again my apologies as I have deviated from the original post about an alleged legendary treasure of Henry Morgan. So in effect I am curious to see if the original posters friend alleged family connection to Henry Morgan was related to the claims of the 1920s and 30's?
Here is more about in Democrat herald December 27th
What it gives us is better insight into history of the alleged family claims of Louis Morgan in the 1920's So now we have Donald Morgan. Louis Morgan and now with this article Virginia Morgan?
Kanacki
Here is more about in Democrat herald December 27th
What it gives us is better insight into history of the alleged family claims of Louis Morgan in the 1920's So now we have Donald Morgan. Louis Morgan and now with this article Virginia Morgan?
Kanacki
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BillA
Bronze Member
Hi Kanacki
To briefly digress back to Cano Island and Bahia Drake: Despite the stories I have never thought for an instant that Drake dumped any silver around here. If he could sail and stop here for supplies (and careen the ship ?), why dump anything ? The tale has never made any sense.
To briefly digress back to Cano Island and Bahia Drake: Despite the stories I have never thought for an instant that Drake dumped any silver around here. If he could sail and stop here for supplies (and careen the ship ?), why dump anything ? The tale has never made any sense.
KANACKI
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As I highlighted in various old accounts dating from near the time period, I saw no mention of any of the silver being dumped overboard anywhere in voyage from Peru to Costa Rica at least. Even the captured Portuguese pilot made no mention of any silver being dumped overboard. He had no reason to not to disclose that event if it happened. However as I said before the Cambridge university professor was guarded when showed part of Drakes alleged hand written Journal. Regardless although there may of been an attempt in the 1930's off cano the story of an American finding 10 tons of silver may of be just rumour? I know later searches in late 90's and early 2000 found no trace at all?
Kanacki
treasurediver
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No relation to J.P. MORGAN?
treasurediver
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From the point of view of metal detecting, a careening site is a jackpot. During the process of careening, a large part of the ship's content had to be unloaded. Often even most of the ballast (stones) had to be unloaded to get access to the lower hull from the inside as well as from the outside. Of course, the "Golden Hinde" would have no ballast stones on board, if there was enough silver to replace the original ballast.
Careening was always messy. Very seldom there was enough tide to lay the ship dry, so the one side of the hull was still in a few feet of water, sand and mud. Countless artifacts would fall into that muck and never been seen again.
KANACKI
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Good question Checking J P Morgans family tree and J P Morgan JR it does not appear at this stage any connection.
Kanacki
treasurediver
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KANACKI
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Good question Checking J P Morgans family tree and J P Morgan JR it does not appear at this stage any connection.
Kanacki
BillA
Bronze Member
td, several difficulties
Kanacki could tell you if there is credible evidence that Drake careened his ship at Cano Island or ashore.
Cano Island has no protected beach, none.
Bahia Drake is a wide expanse in the lee of the prevailing swells (flatter than a platter . . .); with wide beaches covered at high tide - and assorted rocks.
The Rio Agujitas discharges into the south side of Bahia Drake and is quite hidden with an entrance but no beach of any length.
The beach in Bahia Drake is called Playa Colorado (colored beach, i.e. not white) and has a typical 9' tide which is doable. The sand moves in, and then out; it moves to the North, and then to the South. People here for the last 30 years have been trashing the beach zone, several times a year truckloads of trash are removed.
Even were I convinced that Drake careened his ship in Bahia Drake, I would have no idea where to look.
Kanacki could tell you if there is credible evidence that Drake careened his ship at Cano Island or ashore.
Cano Island has no protected beach, none.
Bahia Drake is a wide expanse in the lee of the prevailing swells (flatter than a platter . . .); with wide beaches covered at high tide - and assorted rocks.
The Rio Agujitas discharges into the south side of Bahia Drake and is quite hidden with an entrance but no beach of any length.
The beach in Bahia Drake is called Playa Colorado (colored beach, i.e. not white) and has a typical 9' tide which is doable. The sand moves in, and then out; it moves to the North, and then to the South. People here for the last 30 years have been trashing the beach zone, several times a year truckloads of trash are removed.
Even were I convinced that Drake careened his ship in Bahia Drake, I would have no idea where to look.
BillA
Bronze Member
a link to a listing of a 5 volume history of Panama ?
were you pointing out something specific ?
treasurediver
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We complain about today's fake news, but reading the newspapers of old, like the one above, we see that really nothing has changed. The writer of the article above has never even looked at a map where the city of Panama was. Or how would he explain that Henry Morgan's fleet was off the coast, of the city of Panama?
KANACKI
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Just quick search of 1920 census there was 19 Virginia Morgans that lived in North Carolina. Most was children under 13 years Only one was 32 year old married to John Morgan at a shipyard as a electrician and had 3 sons. That is the only adult.
Columbia College is a private liberal arts women's college in Columbia, South Carolina. Founded in 1854 by the United Methodist Church as a women's liberal arts college. So perhaps the above Morgan was enrolled in the college in 1922 as per newspaper story? Nothing how ever is definite just one possibility? Perhaps the who story was sham? Or the name of Morgan involved had their name disguised? How ever I tend to think its a newspaper invention of the time.
I have looked at Donald Morgan and Louis Morgan also but its late and old Kanacki needs his nap.
Kanancki
Columbia College is a private liberal arts women's college in Columbia, South Carolina. Founded in 1854 by the United Methodist Church as a women's liberal arts college. So perhaps the above Morgan was enrolled in the college in 1922 as per newspaper story? Nothing how ever is definite just one possibility? Perhaps the who story was sham? Or the name of Morgan involved had their name disguised? How ever I tend to think its a newspaper invention of the time.
I have looked at Donald Morgan and Louis Morgan also but its late and old Kanacki needs his nap.
Kanancki
KANACKI
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Yes your correct from about 1860 journalistic accuracy in newspaper was pretty ordinary and yes I agree standards was pretty poor with such stories in the 20th century especially with rise of tabloid newspaper. An past reflection of of the poor journalistic fact checking we have today with fakes news.
Kanacki
KANACKI
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Hello BillA
There is more than one way to careen a vessel.
You sail to the protected side of the island such As Cano from the prevailing winds and do what we call. A related practice was a Parliamentary heel, in which the vessel was heeled over in deep water by shifting weight, such as ballast or guns, to one side. In this way the upper sides could be cleaned or repaired with minimal delay. You not actually hauling the vessel up on beach all. As long as you protected from prevailing winds. The pelican ie Goldenhind was no problem .
Having a brigantine with same tonnage myself never had to do it because we have luxury of slipways today but back then they virtually had nothing is was more of a common practice than many would imagine.
Since that type of careening on water you do not have a physical landing site of careening you have nowhere to look.
Kanacki.
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