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Thread: A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

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  1. #3871
    us
    Jul 2018
    Mountains of Western Colorado
    Garrett, General Mathematics, Geometry,Crystal ball,
    881
    1498 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I do not believe any one here is angry at all I have been real nice to you and so have all the others show some respect.
    The mountains have rules.They are harsh rules,but they are there,and if you keep to them you are safe.A mountain is not like men. A mountain is sincere. The weapons to conquer it exists inside you,inside your soul.

  2. #3872
    us
    Aug 2010
    Arizona
    1,105
    3789 times
    Treasure Vaults
    The real question for the naysayers when it comes to people talking about treasure on a treasure hunting website is this:

    why are the naysayers so concerned about people being given bad information by me or others on here, are they appointing themselves the protectors of people from getting scammed?

    I don't think I have ever heard of anybody devoting years of their lives just to constantly try and disprove other peoples knowledge or thoughts.

    In my mind I would think they have their own personal motives and I very much doubt it has anything to do with protecting everybody on here from getting scammed.(more like protecting the treasures from you guys who want to find them)
    This First Link is for MY GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING
    A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

    This Second link is to my Technical Guide Showing how to catch Auras
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-128.html#post5544576

    Measurements and Degrees
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-245.html#post5982256


  3. #3873
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,895
    3990 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Mike is an excellent poster, and along with Oroblanco (Roy), a staunch apologist for the treasure magazine versions of "Jesuit caches" in Arizona. Both guys back their arguments with historical - or at least dogmatic - supporting points of view. I admit it's clear that the Jesuits likely operated a handful of productive silver mines in Arizona, yes - enough to be able to manufacture shiny bling for their missions and accumulate some trade money for their day-to-day operations. Yes, a few of these shallow surface workings were later located and mined by Anglos. Yes, silver-bearing slag was discovered at some of the missions (although it has never been clear if this was the result of Jesuit work or the later Franciscans after the Jesuits were expelled in 1767).

    Were these mines "exceedingly rich"? Depends on your point of view. One could make a very strong argument that all newly discovered mines were exceedingly rich to begin with, or else they wouldn't have been bothered with. Look at the history of mining in the west. Most mines were discovered by rich surface outcroppings that pinched out rather quickly. A few had long lives, most didn't. Today's mining is different, but we're talking about the old days. Whereas the Jesuits' activities in South America and Mexico indicate the supposed documentation of large recoveries of mineral wealth, there has not been any indication of similar gold and silver mining success in Arizona - by Jesuits, Anglos or anyone else. The Arizona mines were nowhere as rich (other than copper) as what was found - and is still being found - in SA and MX. Yes, Mike provided possible explanations of where all the phantom money supposedly went, but it's just pure speculation.

    Yes, we have stories of "Jesuit cache" recoveries - the Quinn recovery, the "Kino bars" find and Kenworthy's supposed silver find. The Quinn recovery was shown to have originally belonged to a rich Mexican rancher protecting his stash from Villa's revolutionistas. The Kino bars were proven by antiquities forensics to be a modern fraud. Likewise, Kenworthy's claims were unsubstantiated. It's all discussed in depth in the numerous Jesuit threads if you have the gumption to read through them. Facts often dash hopes, but I guess you don't have to believe reality if you don't want to.

    Point 5 of Post #1926 asks the most important question for "treasure hunters" - if the Jesuits hid vast hoards of gold and silver in AZ, why would anyone assume that in the past 200 years, they did not recover them? Mike's fallback positions on this throughout these lengthy threads have been, primarily, either that the Jesuits forgot where they hid the loot, or they were incapable of recovering it. These are convenient excuses, but those dogs don't hunt for me.

    The bottom line for me (your mileage may vary): The Jesuits did some modest mining in AZ. IMO, the richness of the mines and the sizes of the caches have been greatly exaggerated, as all legends are, as time goes by. If the Jesuits left anything behind, it was most likely humble - candlesticks, vestments, some small silver trade items, etc. If it had been major, they would already have recovered it. Arizona's mineral deposits, other than copper, are small potatoes compared to SA and MX.
    The debate about Jesuit mining isn't what caught my attention. I learn a lot when you and Mike and Oro compare research on that subject. I was interested in the blue box, at the end of his post, and the information it contained about the nation of origin for many of the Jesuits and how it might fit in with my area of interest. I won't explain why I think the post might be interesting to the readers of this thread, they'll figure it out.

    I've enjoyed this thread but I must admit that there are many questions that I haven't asked because I feel uneasy about being accused of being a member of some sinister group, if I ask the wrong question or make a comment that is deemed inappropriate or disrespectful to the author of the thread.

  4. #3874
    us
    Aug 2010
    Arizona
    1,105
    3789 times
    Treasure Vaults
    There is only one question that is always the wrong question on here and that is Prove it, which really means:

    lets see what you have found (I already showed the Gold bar in my avatar and explained how it was found which obviously is not enough)

    Lets see where You have found it (I have shown a actual man made shaft with wedged rocks that were plugged in it, again not enough)

    Lets see you holding the treasure while standing in the excavated tunnel with GPS Coordinates (of course that is enough to get the idiot who does it put away for a good long time, which I am sure there are some on here that are really looking forward to me being that idiot)
    elh, cyzak, T.C. and 3 others like this.
    This First Link is for MY GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING
    A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

    This Second link is to my Technical Guide Showing how to catch Auras
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-128.html#post5544576

    Measurements and Degrees
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-245.html#post5982256


  5. #3875
    us
    Jul 2018
    Mountains of Western Colorado
    Garrett, General Mathematics, Geometry,Crystal ball,
    881
    1498 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    mdog you have to look at some of these individuals they have been on this forum for some 20 years and you can see what there mission is its not hard to figure out they may change there handle but still the same person with the same mission.
    elh, sdcfia, mdog and 3 others like this.
    The mountains have rules.They are harsh rules,but they are there,and if you keep to them you are safe.A mountain is not like men. A mountain is sincere. The weapons to conquer it exists inside you,inside your soul.

  6. #3876
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,895
    3990 times
    Quote Originally Posted by cyzak View Post
    mdog you have to look at some of these individuals they have been on this forum for some 20 years and you can see what there mission is its not hard to figure out they may change there handle but still the same person with the same mission.
    Nobody can stop you from looking for treasure. Maybe you don't agree with the information somebody offers, or even the manner in which it is offered, but treasure hunting, especially in the wilderness, is a very risky endeavor and you should look at everything offered, before you risk your life. Please don't take this as a lecture, it's just my opinion.

  7. #3877
    us
    Aug 2010
    Arizona
    1,105
    3789 times
    Treasure Vaults
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    Nobody can stop you from looking for treasure. Maybe you don't agree with the information somebody offers, or even the manner in which it is offered, but treasure hunting, especially in the wilderness, is a very risky endeavor and you should look at everything offered, before you risk your life. Please don't take this as a lecture, it's just my opinion.
    Obviously you have not ran into all the government agencies who most definitely can and do stop you from treasure hunting as well as can confiscate your equipment, either that or your not talking about vault treasure hunting.
    elh, cyzak, mdog and 2 others like this.
    This First Link is for MY GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING
    A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

    This Second link is to my Technical Guide Showing how to catch Auras
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-128.html#post5544576

    Measurements and Degrees
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-245.html#post5982256


  8. #3878
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,720
    7154 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    The debate about Jesuit mining isn't what caught my attention. I learn a lot when you and Mike and Oro compare research on that subject. I was interested in the blue box, at the end of his post, and the information it contained about the nation of origin for many of the Jesuits and how it might fit in with my area of interest. I won't explain why I think the post might be interesting to the readers of this thread, they'll figure it out.

    I've enjoyed this thread but I must admit that there are many questions that I haven't asked because I feel uneasy about being accused of being a member of some sinister group, if I ask the wrong question or make a comment that is deemed inappropriate or disrespectful to the author of the thread.
    Don't worry dog - you're not a Sentinel or a Gman. All threads on TNet are owned by TNet, none by the thread's originator, and are open to questioning posts by the public. Otherwise, this would be a blog site. This thread has occasionally wandered into different areas as TNet threads often do, although the discussion is still on track, IMO - treasure caches and who created them.

    Mike's blue box was posted to try to establish a Jesuit origin for the Quinn recovery. But the interesting part for me was the Jesuit-Portuguese and Jesuit-Spanish associations mentioned. The Portuguese and Spanish were certainly not friendly but the Jesuits exploited both sides. Not to mention the Jesuit-French presence in today's USA at the time. Of course the Spanish and French were also not friendly, and the Jesuits also manipulated both of these sides to accomplish their own goals. Then you have the Franciscans, first into the USA, who kept New Mexico to themselves, later excluding the Jesuits. Interesting stuff. I'm not quite sure where your specific thoughts fall into the mix.
    mdog and Ol' Kentuck like this.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  9. #3879
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,720
    7154 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by cyzak View Post
    mdog you have to look at some of these individuals they have been on this forum for some 20 years and you can see what there mission is its not hard to figure out they may change there handle but still the same person with the same mission.
    Use all the information available to you, then follow your own inner compass and what works for you. Good luck, be careful and have fun.
    mdog and Ol' Kentuck like this.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  10. #3880
    us
    Sep 2017
    Nibiru
    pulsestar II pro
    147
    198 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I have a compass question. I use the same compass as you Sandy, and I have been having some odd things happen. I started to think the needle was contacting the degree ring. It would appear to stop quickly as if was dragging. I would tap on the side and I could get it to move to +/- 3 degrees or so. I opened it up and tweaked the needle a little and it seemed to function without issue. I went back to re verify some measurements. All of a sudden all my things were not adding up. I tapped on the compass again. Again it appeared to have the same issue. I popped off the glass to tweak the needle again and discovered it moved as I got near it. I had my glasses hanging from my collar and thought maybe somehow they were magnetized. (they are not) I made sure I had nothing with a magnet on my person and moved my hand near the compass, same deal. Then I thought maybe my breathing or wind was affecting it since the glass was off. I held my breath, same deal. I replaced the glass after being sure the needle was not in any way contacting the degree wheel. Smae result. If I leaned near the compass or put my finger near it, I could affect the needle. I tried it this morning, and i cannot affect the needle. I am starting to believe it has to do with where I was standing. Have you experienced anything like this? I have read that others have had issues with compasses at certain locations also. A vortex? Magnetic anomaly?

  11. #3881
    us
    Aug 2010
    Arizona
    1,105
    3789 times
    Treasure Vaults
    I have never had my compass be inaccurate unless I was near something very magnetic, just remember that the crisscross spot should be aligned with two boulders etc. I for the most part use the Compass so I can lay out everything on CAD.
    This First Link is for MY GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING
    A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

    This Second link is to my Technical Guide Showing how to catch Auras
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-128.html#post5544576

    Measurements and Degrees
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-245.html#post5982256


  12. #3882
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,895
    3990 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Don't worry dog - you're not a Sentinel or a Gman. All threads on TNet are owned by TNet, none by the thread's originator, and are open to questioning posts by the public. Otherwise, this would be a blog site. This thread has occasionally wandered into different areas as TNet threads often do, although the discussion is still on track, IMO - treasure caches and who created them.

    Mike's blue box was posted to try to establish a Jesuit origin for the Quinn recovery. But the interesting part for me was the Jesuit-Portuguese and Jesuit-Spanish associations mentioned. The Portuguese and Spanish were certainly not friendly but the Jesuits exploited both sides. Not to mention the Jesuit-French presence in today's USA at the time. Of course the Spanish and French were also not friendly, and the Jesuits also manipulated both of these sides to accomplish their own goals. Then you have the Franciscans, first into the USA, who kept New Mexico to themselves, later excluding the Jesuits. Interesting stuff. I'm not quite sure where your specific thoughts fall into the mix.
    Hi Sdc. It was the Jesuit/Portuguese connection that caught my attention. You have seen my posts about the Crypto Jews in the southwest, there were also a lot of Crypto Jews in Portugal. There were Converso Jews who were allowed in the new Jesuit order and this got me to, one more time, consider the possibilities of a smuggling operation conducted by people with no allegiance to the Spanish King or the Pope. Mike's article also got me to thinking that even if the Jesuits had no mines, they had other sources of income that could be paid for in silver coin, or gold. It could then be smuggled north, out of Mexico in the form of bars formed out of melted coin. I also liked his idea that church time was different than human lifespan, when it comes to keeping precious metals in the ground. Something else I liked about the gold cache recovery was that the site was very complicated and probably not the way a rancher would hide his gold, unless he was well educated or knew somebody who was. Was it proven, beyond a doubt, that the cache belonged to the rancher. I seem to remember the bars were made out of melted coin.
    sdcfia and PROSPECTORMIKEL like this.

  13. #3883
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,895
    3990 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sandy1 View Post
    Obviously you have not ran into all the government agencies who most definitely can and do stop you from treasure hunting as well as can confiscate your equipment, either that or your not talking about vault treasure hunting.
    This sounds like a warning to be aware of the consequences of vault hunting. I agree with you 100 per cent.
    sdcfia and PROSPECTORMIKEL like this.

  14. #3884
    us
    Jul 2018
    Mountains of Western Colorado
    Garrett, General Mathematics, Geometry,Crystal ball,
    881
    1498 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    This sounds like a warning to be aware of the consequences of vault hunting. I agree with you 100 per cent.
    Its not just about vault hunting here is a experience I had with a BLM Ranger last year. I hope it opens up some people's eyes I will make this short I have no photos or recorded conversations on this so you will have to trust me. I have also asked permission to do this post in consideration of the man who started this thread.Me and my family were out in area we like to go look around readily accessible with 4X4 was out walking around and found a very awesome looking piece of wood on the ground about 3 foot long and 6" round did not have anything to do with anything just neat looking. I decided i was taking it home so we took it back to the truck and we started driving out here comes a ranger up the road.So he stops me and i roll the down the window first thing out of his mouth what are doing with that wood I said taken it home I need to see your permit I am looking at him permit for what, wood smart ass.I tell him I do not have a permit take it back were you got it ok I will no problem.So we take it back to were we found it when I come out he is up on hill watching and here he comes again i had enough my rig was built for off road I was out of there. The fish and game have now merged with parks and rec here they are coming out with all kinds of regulation and permits now also they want to move the BLM office from Washington DC to out here so they can mange the lands better get the picture.
    Last edited by cyzak; Dec 23, 2018 at 08:01 PM.
    mdog, sandy1, sdcfia and 2 others like this.
    The mountains have rules.They are harsh rules,but they are there,and if you keep to them you are safe.A mountain is not like men. A mountain is sincere. The weapons to conquer it exists inside you,inside your soul.

  15. #3885
    us
    Aug 2010
    Arizona
    1,105
    3789 times
    Treasure Vaults
    I have had issues when it comes to treasure hunting with the (BLM) (The State of AZ on State Trust Land) (Game and Fish) (Forestry Service) (The Police) (Army Core of engineers) (The Air force Jets turning us in to local authorities for digging)
    The first thing you will hear from all of them is this, what are you doing out here, as if you are automatically a criminal just for digging.
    This First Link is for MY GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING
    A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

    This Second link is to my Technical Guide Showing how to catch Auras
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-128.html#post5544576

    Measurements and Degrees
    www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/519355-guide-vault-treasure-hunting-condensed-245.html#post5982256


 

 

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