Jumpy Target IDs

[Kitz]

I got a 540 Pro Pack a week ago and am still very much learning the nuances of the machine. Testing it in my iron-riddled yard, I got a few targets with very jumpy IDs. For example, the ID might fluctuate between 18-21, then drop to 1, then repeat the cycle on the next swing, etc. The ID fluctuations might be different if I change position and swing North-South instead of East-West. If I go into all-metal, iron grunts are added to the mix, but that's not surprising given how much iron there is in the ground that might be masking a desirable target.

My question to more experienced Vanquish users is: do you typically pursue targets like that, or do you stick with the ones that seem more "solid" -- i.e., maintain an ID within a narrow range of numbers, give the same ID no matter what the swing direction, etc.? I'm tempted to do that, especially while learning the machine, but am wondering what I might miss by doing so.

Thanks,

-Ken

 

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[gunsil]

Pretty much the rule for learning any new machine is to dig it all until you really learn what the machine is trying to tell you. Tones are often better indicators than numbers on a screen.

 

[67GTA]

It's best to go by tones first and then VDI numbers. A silver dime normally rings up at 26-28. If it's partially masked by iron or other trash it can drop. I have dug silver dimes around 16-17 where trash normally comes in, but they were next to nails. The reason I took a chance on them was a consistent repeatable tone in at least one direction. There are tricks to figuring out iron falsing. If you get a tone mixed with iron grunts and the target doesn't pinpoint where you are getting the signal under the coil usually that is falsing off the iron halo. Stick your shovel in the ground and pull back just a bit. This will "break" the iron halo and the tone should change to only iron grunts. If the high tone remains, then dig it. And as Gunsil already said "dig it all" until you can call the targets before you dig them.

 

[cairnterrier]

In 6 weeks, which still makes me a rookie, I do not dig everything. If my tones and VDI sounds good, I will dig 12-14 and 18 and higher. Why? It is based on my limited experience and my expectations of what I am looking for at this time. I am still cherry picking coins at local parks and schools. Likely in another 6 weeks, I will change to jewelry mode and large coil. I use coin and small coil normally. I have used large coil in open fields. I subscribe to Pittsburg coin hunting youtube channel. I have learned so much from him. I will use his methods soon once I start hunting older areas. I use some of the same methods that 67GTA uses. I will also switch to all metal on sketchy tones or signals. The grunt sound usually makes me move along depending on the sound. I can usually call the coin based on tone and VDI. However, I have had some of the younger pennies show as dimes and yesterday, I had a penny show 29. Surprised me it was a penny!

 

[jmc24]

I got a 540 Pro Pack a week ago and am still very much learning the nuances of the machine. Testing it in my iron-riddled yard, I got a few targets with very jumpy IDs. For example, the ID might fluctuate between 18-21, then drop to 1, then repeat the cycle on the next swing, etc. The ID fluctuations might be different if I change position and swing North-South instead of East-West. If I go into all-metal, iron grunts are added to the mix, but that's not surprising given how much iron there is in the ground that might be masking a desirable target.

My question to more experienced Vanquish users is: do you typically pursue targets like that, or do you stick with the ones that seem more "solid" -- i.e., maintain an ID within a narrow range of numbers, give the same ID no matter what the swing direction, etc.? I'm tempted to do that, especially while learning the machine, but am wondering what I might miss by doing so.

Thanks,

-Ken

Since you are also detecting modern Canadian steel core clad, you may need to customize your settings some. All iron and steel targets will give multiple numerical and tone IDs on your Vanquish 540. You will probably get some negative numbers/tones on the edge of the coil and some jumpy positive numbers/tones in the middle of the coil...... That is just the way it is which is bad and good. The bad is those targets look and sound awful. The good is once you get used to them they are easy to recognize. You will probably dig more iron while expecting a modern clad coin and just the opposite, too. Personally, in your situation I would reset the Custom mode for your currency. In its US coin configuration which your 540 probably has, it is basically useless for your coins except for your older pennies and silver coins. I would also install a really strong magnet on a digging tool or rake!!!!!

Jeff

 

[67GTA]

Yeah those iron core coins would drive me crazy. Probably have them here in the US before long. If you are hunting areas without a lot of history like parks then cherry picking works great. If you are relic hunting, the targets are in layers as it was dropped and the VDI numbers will lie to you and the good targets won't always sound good. Most coins will ring up 11 and up if no other targets are close to them. Some 1800's flat buttons and gold rings come in lower than 11.

 

[Kitz]

Thanks for all the great info, guys! It's good to know nearby trash can drag down the ID numbers... I'd seen that behavior on my CTX and was wondering if it applied to the MultiIQ machines as well.

I did a short hunt yesterday at a small yard I've hunted with the CTX and several other machines. Found an old door hinge that gave a solid 20-21 ID and tone with iron grunts nearby. I think its composition is bronze-like, so a relatively high conductor. Surprising that the other machines didn't hit on it... score one for the V.

Our steel clad is a pain, all right. From air tests, I've noticed the IDs fluctuate between 0-19 and give a weird blend of two tones that should be easy to recognize. Unfortunately, the older "clad" coins minted between 1968-1999 were 100% nickel, and read up pretty much like pull-tabs. But i bought the V mostly for re-hunting older sites for silvers and relics, so that's not a huge concern.

-Ken

 

[SvtDave]

It's best to go by tones first and then VDI numbers. A silver dime normally rings up at 26-28. If it's partially masked by iron or other trash it can drop. I have dug silver dimes around 16-17 where trash normally comes in, but they were next to nails. The reason I took a chance on them was a consistent repeatable tone in at least one direction. There are tricks to figuring out iron falsing. If you get a tone mixed with iron grunts and the target doesn't pinpoint where you are getting the signal under the coil usually that is falsing off the iron halo. Stick your shovel in the ground and pull back just a bit. This will "break" the iron halo and the tone should change to only iron grunts. If the high tone remains, then dig it. And as Gunsil already said "dig it all" until you can call the targets before you dig them.

Hi New be hear, could you please explain what you mean by sticking shovel in the ground and pull back a bit? Stick it near target? Pull what back? Shovel? Sorry, getting lots of iron falsing, digging lots of rusty nails, learning slow but sure, thanks for any help

 

[67GTA]

As an iron target rusts over several decades, some of the rust and iron leaches out into the soil and creates a halo around it. This halo will cause VLF detectors to false. If you turn 360 on a target and it gives a good clean high tone then it's usually a good target. Sometimes it could be masked by iron and only give a signal one way. It's best to investigate to be sure. The quickest way I've found to do this is to pinpoint the target and see if the target center is in the same place as the signal. If the pinpoint is off center then it's usually the edge of the iron halo giving the false signal. The other way I mentioned was to act like you are going to dig the target. After sticking your shovel in the ground just pull it back to slightly break the dirt up and disturb the iron halo without actually digging a plug. If the good signal goes away then it's usually iron. By disturbing the halo the detector doesn't false and correctly identifies it as iron.

 

[SvtDave]

Thanks 67GTA, good explanation, I'll give it a try, digging alot of rusty nails, tin, aluminum and lead, only a few coins, years ago I hunted this area with the ole coinmaster 6000d, figured the V540 could clean up, but struggling, but learning

 

[67GTA]

The way Minelab marketed the Vanquish and their iron bias settings was a little disingenuous. I've talked to several other people that are mad about the Vanquish iron falsing. The truth is even the high end detectors suffer from the same thing. It is just a limitation in the VLF technology. Some high end detectors have better discrim circuits, but will still get fooled sometimes. Basically the high iron bias setting on the Vanquish equates to almost maximum discrimination. Then trying to mute the iron tone by having the horeshoe button turned off only leaves users with the high clipped tone of the iron falsing. The 440 and 340 are permanently set this way. My best advice is to run with low iron bias and the horeshoe button turned on. This way if you get a piece of iron falsing you will also get the other half of that falsing signal which will be the low grunt and you will get the classic broken signal that most detectors will give in that situation. Even if you are running with high iron bias, having the horeshoe button on will still give you more info to work with on falsing iron.