Victorio Peak Documents, Symbols and Artifacts

[treasminder2]

where did you read my dad mislead the gov jack ?

are you dense ?

did i say he misled the gov. ?


here, i'll tell you a real story jack

lets see if you catch the gestalt of the story

in 2002 i left Eugene Oregon and travelled down to Las Cruces,, and per Oren Sweringens request,,,
went to Jerry Cheatums house of the Ova Noss Family Project

Jerry related to me a story Letha Guthrie told

the story goes that one day, about 1939, her and Ova together were on Vicky Peak,

and a Man, from some bushes began to shoot at them


Ova pulled her trusty side arm and shot back grazing the culprit and running him off by shooting near his feet as he ran all the way out of Hembrillo basin

Letha stated that the Man was Harvey Snow ( My Dad )

My Dad was born in 1927
he would have at the best,,, been 12 years old,, how'd he get there from florida

did he float on a cloud ?

Jerry recounted many a story that Ova and Letha had told

some included my Dads name in the story.

Jerry had one item going for him

he was Obsessed with VP and the stories.

The Gestalt ?

The Gestalt is Jack,,, that Jack Staley can write books using the Ova Noss Family Project material that Jerry Cheatum had in File Cabinets all over his entry way 0f his house and in his office.

Jack or John Staley of Clarence or any author can write those books

any TRUTH to these books ?

Dude, TRUTH is not a commodity in the VP so called saga.

why is it, i never hear about Doc Noss's Cocaine and Gambling addiction ?

I mean Jack, ONFP glorify a Known Criminal. an alcoholic drug addicted brutal psychopath.

and sure,,, my Dad was EVIL as Snake spit,,

but hey,, even Charlie Manson had his good days ,, i'm sure.

Ok Jack,,,, if you can understand that the 3 books have no actuall facts from credible witnesses,
whom i know for a fact, Made up fictitous stories,, then,, you next question will be:::

Well Rog',,,, what is true and will you tell us /

No Jack
VP was a major crime, it led to the death of JFK, and many other deaths and torture Jack.

No one NEEDS to KNOW the truth.

no one NEEDS to keep pushing it up out of the ashes and attempting to re-ignite it into life.

it's a dead story dude

most, if not all the players are now dead

Last i heard was a Saudi Prince who bought some of the treasure back in 1964, had died a few months back

The true story ?

HA! FOIA,,, every day,,,, all day,,,

you'll never get it


How'd you like the majic Bullet trick on JFK's gurney ?

worked well did it not ?

How'd you like the Hologram of a triangular ufo over phoenix in 1997

worked well,,, did it not ?
SPOOFED an entire city dude, but it was not flares, it was a lazer projected 3D hologram


Truth ?

Dude, truth does not sell well

Truth, gets people in trouble, and if they have power to do so, they KILL anyone who can prove the truth.

Do i have truth to tell ?

I am my dads son
dna proved that

Truth is
no one NEEDS to know the TRUTH

ingrained within the genetic code of western civilazation

is the Jesus Mythology

about 1,700 years of the Myth being hammered home into the minds of people
has created a Genetic coding as it can be called.

now children are born believing a MYTH, or at the least,, are born with the code in place
for the acceptance of the MYTH

Now, given all that trash i just wrote

what truth is in your genetic coding Jack ?

andis Homeland security aware of us rapping in this forum ?

are we being watched ?

should we believe it is all GOOD ?

200 years ago, my anscetors would have knocked the teeth out of a TSA agents for touching
an Elderly woman, or any female

200 years of brutal conditioning,,, and YOU will not even cuss at them

Truth ?

depends on YOUR truth. depends on what your consciousness is coded for.


Mislead the Government ?
My Dad ?

intentionally mislead the Government ?

STUPID,,, turn the Cart around Jack,,, has the Government misled YOU ?

is it doing that right now through me ?

am
i a TOOL Jack ?

are you a TOOL Jack ?

How would you know if either were true or not Jack ?

give that a thought folks

i can for a fact mislead
i can for a fact spin heads in whatever direction i wish for them to spin

and if i can get that done all on my own

what can a Government or chuch do with all the resources YOU provide them with
to do it to you ?

Mislead the Government Jack ?

Jack, is the Kettle Black Dude ?

This from page #7

I have been re-reading my post in this forum

interesting is that today
you see on main stream media , many of the things I spoke about years ago

thanks to whistle blowers

when i spoke of 3D Laser projected Holographic images of UFO's

no one knew it , and no one posted the technology or spoke about it

Now
Since I spoke of it

It is all over the net

lots of things I spoke of are now becoming known to the public


When I said you were feeding a Monster that will eat your children

I meangt for people to reflect on their own brainwashing

What exactly gives you that PATRIOTIC feeling that you have a True and Honest Country
worth killing and dieing for ?

Where did you get the idea and was it reafirmed for you almost daily ?

was it in a Public School and from your parents ?

Did you History Books about America seem to be full of lies when you were a Kid

those books were lies and as a kid I could feel it when I read them .

Today , right now , re read what you read of my post from all these years

and apply what i said back then about the near future which is the now

does it all fit ?

Yeah , like a playtex glove


I rest my case folks

welcome to the America we Warned you about

Remain deluded however

because it is too late to stop yourself from supporting it with your children and your tax dollars

you've become comfortable and afraid

310 million of you now

your Culture is Shopping Malls

stay there and duck the incoming folks

see ya's

 

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[donethat]

Well Donethat,

You should know Victorio1 (Alex) very well.

Best - Mike

I'll have to read some more of his posts. Not ringing a bell. Was he around back in the '70s?

 

[Rawhide]

Casca I love your photos! especially the ones from up in the Organs. If you wouldn't mind sharing the location of the large heart rock and the cave entrance that's blocked by stones, I'd love to see these places for myself. Thanks again for the pics.


Best Regards
Allen

Hi Allen, just stopped in to see if there was anything new. Im gonna visit that heart someday. I think Doc and a few others found more than Victorio Peak. I dont use a GPS, and its a little hard to explain where I was. I have been hiking BC a few times and will be spending some more time there this fall. It would be easier for me to show you where that spot is on a map.

 

[Arky]

Just a note on the crown picture did a google image search and found it here RoyalDish - Tiara - page 162 and another site it is said to be Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna of Russia emerald tiara Russian Royality, history and so on more info on it is here Atlanta Diamond Design ? Crafting Life?s Lasting Memories : Atlanta Diamond Design Not saying that any body is lying but the picture must have come from a book since it is the very same image. Then again the article says the where abouts is unknown since 1927 after they were auctioned off. Another article says that it has been missing since 1917 which would put it the same time that our soldier of fortune Emil Holmdahl of 16th infantry was in Europe. And before he stole the head of Villa for a certain Mr. Prescott Bush to put in the "The Tomb" of the "Skull and Bones"
And The Plot Thickens!

 

[gollum]

I know this is old, but I think I need to add something here; I will have to doublecheck this, but I don't believe that Doc or anyone from the ONFP ever claimed this was a picture of the tiara Doc found at VP. My understanding is that over the years, people tried to get first Ova, then Letha to describe what the tiara looked like. Someone showed them pictures from books, and the closest one to the one they saw was the one we see:



My guess is that if we were to recover the actual tiara, it would be this one:



Since a chest was found with "MAXIMILLIAN" on it, my best guess is that VP was the final resting place of Maximillian's Crown Jewels. How did they get in VP? Maximillian sent a lot of loot North. He tried to get as much as he could Galveston, TX to ship back to Europe. Somewhere along the way, the loot was waylayed by Apache and deposited in VP.

Best - Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Gully: I seem to have seen someplace that his jewels were subject to confiscation by belonging to the new gov't of Mexico itself, The US gov't was ready to back up their claim on any valuables leaving Mexico --- confiscate whatever Max may be carrying or attempting to send via an American port.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. how is mi lil Land rover doing ?

 

[Springfield]

... Since a chest was found with "MAXIMILLIAN" on it, my best guess is that VP was the final resting place of Maximillian's Crown Jewels. How did they get in VP? Maximillian sent a lot of loot North. He tried to get as much as he could Galveston, TX to ship back to Europe. Somewhere along the way, the loot was waylayed by Apache and deposited in VP.

Best - Mike

I imagine General Jo Shelby and his associates were up to their eyeballs in the Maximillian treasure transfer. I also highly doubt that the Apaches were involved in any way, even though that seems to be a conveniently swallowed link to Victorio Peak. I personally distrust all information provided by Noss and his heirs, but that's only because I'm a realist.

 

[gollum]

Springy,

If you were a realist, then you would know that most of what Doc claimed has been (circumstantially) proven true over the years.

To start with, Capt Orby Swanner US Army Military Police that signed a sworn affidavit stating that he personally witnessed the Army flatbed about 93,000,000 troy ounces of gold from Victorio Peak. The Army claimed that Swanner was never there and his story was BS. When Operation Goldfinder got into one of the lower caverns at VP, they found Captain Swanner's name burned into the wall (just where he said it would be).



Everybody associated with the Doc Noss/Charlie Ryan has been saying that Doc never had any gold to sell to Ryan. He was scamming him, and that was what the fight was about when Doc was shot. Ryan was acquitted of murder, claiming that Doc was going for the pistol in his glove box when Ryan shot him in the head.



Looks to me like Doc was going to the drivers side of his truck. Not the passenger side where the glove box was.

Now, since everybody thinks Doc was just a scammer, and there was no gold to sell to Ryan ..... weeeeelllllll ........

Listen to the words of the late Tony Jolley:



The man that helped Doc hide 110 bars of gold the night before he was murdered by Ryan.

So Springy, I don't know what your definition of realist is, but I think mine may be a bit different.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

It's known that Noss attempted to pass off brass bars as gold during these days (!), and had other numerous character and credibility defects spanning his 'career' - after all, the guy was a serial liar and well-known conman, facts that have been rehashed ad nauseum for decades. I guess we're expected to take Jolley's totally unsubstantiated word on the '10 gold bars' recovery story. Hey, it's YouTube, right? Well, if Noss was ever in possession of gold bars, and I think he was at some point, it's a pretty strong bet they came from the Caballos, not Soledad Peak, quite likely through nefarious circumstances ... but that's another story.

One thing's for sure, as your posted famous photo confirms, Ryan (who presumably thought he had much to gain with Doc) wasn't buying Noss's constant line of BS anymore, and Doc went to sleep on the bumper of his own truck. The Ryan inquest was a quick-and-dirty affair and he wasn't prosecuted. It would have been interesting if Ryan had been interviewed and shed light on the incident, but to my knowledge, no records have surfaced. I'd like to more about him.

You are correct that circumstantial evidence indicates that Noss was somehow involved with a large amount of gold in southern NM in the '30's and '40's, but I'm not sure the truth of his involvement will ever surface. The truth of the gold - where it originated and who accumulated it, is much more important than Noss, IMO.

 

[gollum]

Actually, its not just YouTube. I posted the interview. It is just a few minutes of an hour and a half interview a friend of mine did with him. I have the entire interview, but was only given permission to share that part (so far). I also have a two hour interview with Willie Daughitt/Larry Foreman.

Now, since you just COMPLETELY ignored the testimony of Captain Orby Swanner which places ninety-three million troy ounces of gold in VP...............and his bonifides are burned into that cave wall that had been sealed from 1961 until 1992. Just saying. Ignore that little tidbit if it doesn't fit into your scheme.

YOU SAY "Docs constant line of BS." Tony Jolley says different! IN another part of the interview he explains how he ran into Doc the night before he was killed. How he and Doc had met some years earlier where Jolley was a rodeo rider. Doc sat down with him and explained without a ton of detail that he was supposed to sell some gold bars to this guy, but he had heard the guy was going to screw him over, so he wanted to rebury as many of the bars as he could during the night, so if Ryan did him wrong, he wouldn't get all the gold Doc had. He described how they moved about 10 or so bars at a time. The rest is in the posted video. Jolley's son also confirms that his dad had the gold bars he got from Docs stash. That is how he could afford to buy the nice ranch he left to his son when he passed away.

Springy, you are too easy to cast an awful lot of aspersions on people you never met and don't personally know anybody who knew them. You never knew Doc or anybody that knew him. There is just as good a chance that the stories you heard of his being a dirtbag are just stories. Many of the stories of his conning people with copper and brass bars were from the WSMR Version of the VP Story. EVERY ONE of the stories on the old WSMR VP Page was wholly unsubstantiated. Not a bit of proof or reference given. Doc was a hard drinker. He also served prison time for assault. Hell, in 1981, I got arrested in a barfight in Tijuana.

It just looks to me like you dismiss anything that doesn't fit with your theory. Too bad.

The family thought Doc had a second source of gold. Doc never admitted that to anybody that I know of, but considering what happened when he tried to do the right thing with VP, wouldn't you keep a second rich source of gold a complete secret? I personally think Doc found two of the seven treasure caves from the map that Willie had shown him. He was just murdered before he had a chance to figure how to recover the second cave.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Actually, ALL the rest is not in the posted video.

Jolley states near the end that after reburying the 110 bars, that Doc started getting paranoid about Jolley knowing their locations (the people that knew Doc knew he didn't particularly trust or like whites). Jolley started feeling uncomfortable riding around the dark countryside in the middle of the night with Doc starting to act paranoid. Jolley said that at the first opportunity, he got out of Doc's truck and left him. That's why only 110 of the 300 bars were reburied.

I have no reason to doubt the word of Jolley or his son regarding this story. But like I said, if it doesn't fit into your theory, just ignore it.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

... Springy, you are too easy to cast an awful lot of aspersions on people you never met and don't personally know anybody who knew them. You never knew Doc or anybody that knew him...

Actually, I knew Jerry Cheatham, of Las Cruces, NM, Ova Noss's grandson, via numerous emails and phone conversations in the early 2000's; Ross Cherry, of Silver City, NM, via years of personal contact, who, along with his father Ross Sr., knew Noss and dealt with him in Clovis, NM, in the 1930's; and the highly controversial Roger Snow, currently somewhere off the California coast, via years of emails, phone conversations and generous guided tours of the Organ Mountains, whose father Harvey Snow (controversial in his own right) was a contemporary of Noss.

It just looks to me like you dismiss anything that doesn't fit with your theory. Too bad...

Actually, I have no working theory to explain the Soledad Peak mysteries that I am confident enough to support. You are obviously more comfortable than I am accepting public domain explanations about these sorts of treasure stories. Things are seldom as they seem.

The peak obviously held a lot of gold at one time. I suspect most of the lower caves' contents were Pre-Columbian. I suspect the gold was transferred there from somewhere else. I also suspect there is a large cache in the Caballos, whose contents also originated elsewhere. Noss, a very dark figure, is the joker in the deck. I suspect he was not an original thinker. In any event, I distrust his story, and have my doubts that anyone alive knows the truth - at least anyone in a position to talk. My interest in the story is only in how Soledad and the Caballos are connected to the remainder of the 'seven sites'.

... I personally think Doc found two of the seven treasure caves from the map that Willie had shown him. He was just murdered before he had a chance to figure how to recover the second cave.

Mike

You may be right - I don't know. I sure would like to know more about Ryan.

 

[burlbark]

Actually, ALL the rest is not in the posted video.

Jolley states near the end that after reburying the 110 bars, that Doc started getting paranoid about Jolley knowing their locations (the people that knew Doc knew he didn't particularly trust or like whites). Jolley started feeling uncomfortable riding around the dark countryside in the middle of the night with Doc starting to act paranoid. Jolley said that at the first opportunity, he got out of Doc's truck and left him. That's why only 110 of the 300 bars were reburied.

I have no reason to doubt the word of Jolley or his son regarding this story. But like I said, if it doesn't fit into your theory, just ignore it.

Mike

I would just like to thank you for your thought out and concise posts. I dont take anybodys word as the word of god, but I can be assured that you have done your research and dont talk out of your keester.

I have read plenty on Victoria Peak and the Captains name on the wall, along with his sworn testimony seals the deal. It is a shame what happened to that family.

As far as other treasures, they may be the seven cities of gold but I will never find them, but I will enjoy the reading.

 

[gollum]

Thanks burlbark

I just look at all the evidence I can find on a subject. Even then, the most important thing I look for are a persons actions. Not what they say. If Ova thought the real treasure was in the Caballos, then why did she fight to get access to VP until her death? Very simple question. If she knew the real motherlode was in the Caballos, then why didn't she give up on VP and grab the loot from the Caballos?

No, very simply, Ova believed that the treasure her husband had found lay under VP. She believed it till the day she died.

Here is a better pic of Capt Swanner's Sooted Name:



Mike

 

[Springfield]

... I just look at all the evidence I can find on a subject. Even then, the most important thing I look for are a persons actions. Not what they say. If Ova thought the real treasure was in the Caballos, then why did she fight to get access to VP until her death? Very simple question. If she knew the real motherlode was in the Caballos, then why didn't she give up on VP and grab the loot from the Caballos?

No, very simply, Ova believed that the treasure her husband had found lay under VP. She believed it till the day she died.

Mike

From Ova's grandson:
" In the area of treasure stories my grandmother used to say that 'it draws some of the best liars.' Based on my eight years experience talking to and researching some of these stories I do believe that it involves a lot of liars. ..."
Interesting statement from Mrs. Noss, considering her husband was acknowledged by most who dealt with him to be a serial liar and conman, no? I suppose she remained active at Soledad because she had some sort of legal claim there, which was not the case in the crowded Caballos (although Not says Cheatham did in later times).

Swanner apparently wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, was he? "I did it."

 

[txtea]

I remember seeing a pic of the truck that Doc is slumped over from a different angle, and on the driver's door was a company sign of Ryans....not that it really matters, but that was Charlie Ryan's bumper that Doc died on....not Noss's. I'll try and dig it up when I get home from work.

 

[Oroblanco]

I remember seeing a pic of the truck that Doc is slumped over from a different angle, and on the driver's door was a company sign of Ryans....not that it really matters, but that was Charlie Ryan's bumper that Doc died on....not Noss's. I'll try and dig it up when I get home from work.

Hola amigo Texas T - thank you for pointing that out!

 

[gollum]

Technically, both trucks belonged to Charlie Ryan, but if memory serves, the truck behind Doc was the one he was driving. You are correct. Also though, when Doc left Ryan's House, Ryan fired one shot, then a second that hit Doc in the head. A good chance that Doc was moving to get both trucks between him and Ryan. Especially after hearing the first shot, then hearing someone in the house holler "Shoot that dirty ba$tard!" (which everybody nearby did hear). Funny they heard that, but NOBODY heard Doc say he was going to kill Ryan...... wait for it ............. EXCEPT RYAN! HAHAHA

I just reread the "Victoria Peak" book by Khoury. It looks like everything Doc did after losing access to VP (after divorcing Ova) was use every tactic he could to get back into the lower caverns. Notice when he was working Ryan with the whole lead mine thing. That claim was near the base of VP. So, Doc might have told Ryan he had a rich vein of lead, but he was secretly just using that lead vein to get Ryan to fund his trying to dig sideways into the gold caves.

Doc might have been a lot of things; drunk, bully, liar (at times), but he wasn't stupid. After what happened to him when he originally tried to do the right thing, he knew he couldn't trust anybody but himself. Khoury talks about what Doc used to do. The first time he was going to sell a gold bar to a banker he knew, the guy promised to keep it a secret, so Doc told him the gold bar came from the Caballo Mountains. Doc watched, and that very weekend, everybody and their mothers were crawling all over the Caballos. So much for that secret. When he set up meetings with people to sell bars to, if he got paranoid for any reason, he would bring a gold painted brick or copper bar to the meeting. He would tell the buyer not to pay him until he had the bar checked out. When they found out it was not gold, they would be pissed, but Doc was safe. I believe that is how the stories of Docs Gold being in the Caballos, as well as him selling bogus gold bars got started. It is a known fact that Doc actually had access to a lot of gold bars. There are several witnesses that personally saw them.

Mike

 

[treasminder2]

Quote Mike : " Since a chest was found with "MAXIMILLIAN" on it, my best guess is that VP was the final resting place of Maximillian's Crown Jewels. How did they get in VP? Maximillian sent a lot of loot North. He tried to get as much as he could Galveston, TX to ship back to Europe. Somewhere along the way, the loot was waylayed by Apache and deposited in VP.


Nope , it did not have MAXIMILLIAN on that trunk

it was Charlottia ,,,( The Nick Name her father gave her when she was a child ) not Carlotta

Her Actual Name Was Maria Charlotte or Charlotte Maria

Maria is a common
used name all throughout Europe .

but she was called Char-Lottia by her father

sorta like " Little Charlotte )

The HOPE CHEST was her's


how it ended up where it was ?

I know that in the cavern I entered , there was some stuff from the Max stuff

But alas ,, stuf is stuf no matter who owned it .

what sorta matters

is where is it now ?

Hey Bill Clinton , how come your wife Hillary Billery has 99 million dollars you schmuck ?

Belgi

 

[Garry]

Mike,

Your response from Hawley and Hawley regarding the Assay report shown at the beginning of this thread;

The Hawley & Hawley records prior to 1997 are gone. My best guess is as you suspect,that the assay results relate to a copper 'bar' or ingot.

All,

What kind of assay of a copper bar or ingot would yield the mineral percentages shown on the report (1930s)? Would it be a destructive or nondestructive test? Fire Assay or something else?

Why did the posters lean toward the assay being of ore instead of ingot?

Please pardon my late interest,

Garry