Candle Holder from pre-colonial site

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tj.cama

Jr. Member
Jan 2, 2013
77
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New Jersey
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I found a hand-blown glass candle holder at a pre-colonial cellar hole while metal detecting the other day. It stands 6.5 inches high. The glass is hand blown and there is no trade mark on the bottom, as there is for bottles. Im just curious if anyone can put a value on it, and better yet if they can help me date it.
photo (3).JPG
 

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surf

surf

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Hello tj.cama,

A most interesting discovery, sir. Could you please take closeups of the base & perhaps a top down view? Are the framing rods solid or hollow? It appears the candle cup is badly fractured. Is the candle holder fused to the frame? Thanks for showing this...

mag8-15.JPG
 

OP
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T

tj.cama

Jr. Member
Jan 2, 2013
77
64
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The framing rods are solid and are not hollow at all. Unfortunately, the cup is damaged but is still all in tact. It appears that the candle holder was blown separately, then re-blown and attached to the rods. I have never seen anything like it, cannot find anything close to it on the internet. I have been collecting and dump digging for over 15 years now, and have never seen anything like this before, and is possibly my oldest glass find. I will post more pictures within the next day for you.




surf said:
Hello tj.cama,

A most interesting discovery, sir. Could you please take closeups of the base & perhaps a top down view? Are the framing rods solid or hollow? It appears the candle cup is badly fractured. Is the candle holder fused to the frame? Thanks for showing this...

mag8-15.JPG
Click to expand...
 

surf

surf

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Hey tj.cama,

I just looked again, and blew it up for another inspection. I hope you'll get lots of nice detailed photos, please, showing as much detail, highlights, etc. Natural light against a solid background, if you can swing it, please. I'm talking the full Arny Freytag treatment... 8-)

What are the dimensions? Are the rods hexagonal? I broke the drip pan and socket on a beautiful iittala crystal candelabrum by letting the candle burn all the way down... Once.

I've not seen one like it, either. I'm wondering if the framing rods might have accommodated some kind of reflective component...

This is me staying tuned.

slack1.jpg
 

OP
OP
T

tj.cama

Jr. Member
Jan 2, 2013
77
64
New Jersey
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Minelab Excal II
Primary Interest:
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I will provide very detailed info and many more photos tomorrow for you. They will be uploaded by 5pm. Thank you for all of your help. I took it to a antique dealer and she offered 600$ right away, which most likely means something. Of course I did not sell it and was just trying to get information.
 

OP
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T

tj.cama

Jr. Member
Jan 2, 2013
77
64
New Jersey
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The rods are hexagonal. Here are some more photographs. Thank you for all of your help!

candle1.jpg candle3.jpg candle4.jpg


surf said:
Hey tj.cama,

I just looked again, and blew it up for another inspection. I hope you'll get lots of nice detailed photos, please, showing as much detail, highlights, etc. Natural light against a solid background, if you can swing it, please. I'm talking the full Arny Freytag treatment... 8-)

What are the dimensions? Are the rods hexagonal? I broke the drip pan and socket on a beautiful iittala crystal candelabrum by letting the candle burn all the way down... Once.

I've not seen one like it, either. I'm wondering if the framing rods might have accommodated some kind of reflective component...

This is me staying tuned.

slack1.jpg
Click to expand...
 

surf

surf

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737429d1360285859-candle-holder-pre-colonial-site-candle1.jpg


Hey tj.cama,

Thanks for the additional photos. I'm afraid they've brought forth more questions than answers, though.

Am I seeing a silver / metal flashing on the upper outside corners of the "frame?" Would the base have been hexagonal were it not broken? What does the bottom of the base look like? Is it pontiled?

I'm wondering if it might have been an insert for a lamp / lantern...???

3494.1L.jpg
 

C

chub

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I worked for some time in the technical end (cold shop) of a glass blowing studio. It certainly is an unusual piece. I'm by no means an expert but the top appears to be a primative possibly wood cast or formed in a one or two sided wooden mould. The corners of the top shoulders are confusing because they are right angled ( indicative of a mould or production piece) yet the legs are sagged when they were joined to the base. Was that intentional from the maker?
What I am saying is that its unusual to have such cleanly formed shoulders and demonstrated craftsmanship in the hexagonal sections and yet such ammature craftsmanship on the sagged legs...It almost looks impossible to be handblown - unless - there were a team of blowers involved each making a component (ie one guy making the large hex section , another on the cup etc) and the main man 'assembling' the components.
like I said , Im no expert but google a glass blowing vid and you soon realise this would be a very technical piece to make single handed!
The glass also looks to be good quality. No oxidising and chemically correct to have no apparent green or blue in the glass.

Chub
 

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huntsman53

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JMO, the piece was likely done by professional European artists in hand blowing glass in the 1700's or earlier. The sagging you mention appears to me to possibly have been caused by the piece being too close to a fire, if not partially in it. Once the base broke, the owner likely discarded this exceptional and beautiful piece to the burn/trash pile or dump. What a shame! Not sure of the effects on the value but believe a professional at hand blowing glass could repair the base and the cup. One might want to leave the rods as is but they too can likely be repaired by straightening them.

And yes, I am fully aware that this Thread is over 5 years old and the O.P. has not responded since. However, the O.P. is still a member and still active here.
 

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C

chub

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The OP bumped a few days ago. I dont think it can be repaired. Taking the piece to a glass blowing studio would be revealing though. Im not sure if the diameter of the candle hole is significant? When did commercial candles become available?

Chub
 

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Ponchosportal

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Not many imperfections or bubbles for glass made back then ................. maybe crystal? Just an observation.
 

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chub

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what concerns me is the immediate $600 offer. what did the dealer see in it so quickly?

chub
 

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chub

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There is a definate CASTING LINE between the centres of the legs along the base ! I didnt see it before. Its cast in a mould. NOT hand 'blown'. The legs probably sagged during annealing. Im thinking perhaps this piece is not so old after all.

Chub
 

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chub

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The hole for the candle is also tapered - again indicative of a mold. If hand blown on the end of a punt or iron the blower would have made a parallel sided hole.

Chub
 

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chub

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mPMvbYcUAEFu_iaaelB_pnQ.jpg
 

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chub

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Art Deco
Chub
 

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huntsman53

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Maybe the O.P. took the piece back to the Antique Dealer and got the $600 offered or may got the Dealer to up the offer. Who knows!
 

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chub

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Pics are from etsy. He should take the 600!
Chub
 

C

chub

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One on Etsy right now for $13....

O.P. where are you?

chub
 

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