Testing my TNet Friends

[WannaDig3687]

My husband received this flint lock muzzle loader, KY long rifle from his father 2-1/2 weeks ago. It was given to my father-in-law 72 years ago. My husband immediately took pics and asked his "fishing" buddies to help with information, date, and worth, etc. So... they have had a 2-1/2 week head start. We have not heard anything yet. I want to show off the TNet members. Supposedly there is (maybe a was) a number 19 on it. We haven't found it. Could you also tell us where to look for that? I'm really rooting for you!















Thanks for looking!

 

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[JimJ]

Good morning and a late Merry Christmas Wrightdigger. I believe it is a Riddle cap and ball (percussion) muzzleloader. I am trying to find some more info but our net here is extremely slow and keeps timing out. I will keep trying to look though. Any idea what bore size is?

 

[Red James Cash]

It may have been a flintlock at one time but could have been converted to percussion,a more reliable ignition system.

 

[vpnavy]

Just few questions...

1. List all "marks" on the musket. I can see you have Makers Mark (Riddle) on the lock plate.
2. Is their also a "C Gumpf" on the top of the barrel?
3. What is the length of the puppy in inches?

 

[JimJ]

I tend to agree with Red James Cash because after checking further Riddle was a percussion lock maker. Looks like some other modifications have also been made. Nice looking rifle but be extremely careful if you all try to test fire it.

 

[Red James Cash]

It could also still be loaded,As an empty gun is useless except as a club.So be wary.Put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with tape at the muzzle.pull the ramrod out and hold it to the outside of the barrel.If the gun is empty there should only be an inch or two of ramrod showing when its down the barrel.Firing a double loaded old gun could be bad news.

 

[WannaDig3687]

Ok. Mr. Wrightdigger called and talked to his father and asked him to write down the story so hopefully that will happen soon and I can post it. He did find out that the 19 is on the backside of the lock plate. He is not going to take it apart, so we are going with that. There are no other markings on it outside of the "Riddle."
Overall length is 55-1/4"
Barrel length is 39-1/2"
1/2" hole at the end of the barrel.


I don't know anything about guns, so feel free to educate.
And thank you.

 

[Red James Cash]

1/2" hole at the end of the barrel.

That would make it .50 caliber,land to land it probably measures .490.

 

[Davers]

ill give it a try but my antique firearm , knowledge is limited.
Def, was a 'Cap' system or was converted.

 

[WannaDig3687]

Good morning and a late Merry Christmas Wrightdigger. I believe it is a Riddle cap and ball (percussion) muzzleloader. I am trying to find some more info but our net here is extremely slow and keeps timing out. I will keep trying to look though. Any idea what bore size is?

It may have been a flintlock at one time but could have been converted to percussion,a more reliable ignition system.

I tend to agree with Red James Cash because after checking further Riddle was a percussion lock maker. Looks like some other modifications have also been made. Nice looking rifle but be extremely careful if you all try to test fire it.

That would make it .50 caliber,land to land it probably measures .490.

ill give it a try but my antique firearm , knowledge is limited.
Def, was a 'Cap' system or was converted.

Ok, so I need to be referring to it as a .50 caliber percussion muzzle loader. Correct?

Waiting for the story from my Father-in-law is going to drive me insane! Argh!

 

[Peyton Manning]

whenever I don't know what something is, I eliminate the obvious

IT IS NOT a 50 cal machine gun

 

[Peyton Manning]

nor is it a burp gun

 

[Davers]

Ok, so I need to be referring to it as a .50 caliber percussion muzzle loader. Correct?

Waiting for the story is going to drive me insane! Argh!

Don't worry , still working on this one , with some help of-course.

 

[WannaDig3687]

nor is it a burp gun

you forgot pea-shooter

 

[WannaDig3687]

Don't worry , still working on this one , with some help of-course.

Thank You, Davers. You are a good friend. BTW... did I ever congratulate you on becoming Charter Member? Well, just in case... Congratulations!!!!

 

[releventchair]

Half stock is in the Hawkin kind of school, but barrel looks long. Could have been a fullstock at one time.
Not a gun show off sample from the golden age of Ohio gun building....Economy of build by the trigger guard not being inlaid suggests either trying to keep price point down...or filling a demand of production. Trade rifles ,or gifts to natives could be lower price points too.

Rifles were built in multiple ways. With parts from multiple suppliers ,parts made " in house" , even to use of salvaged parts.
Lock ,stock and barrel could all have a different builder. As with the furniture the rifle wears too.
An escutcheon for one of the pictured rifles screws looks unique enough to associate with some one.
You have one name ( Riddle) to work with .
I did not see any barrel to stock key( s) showing.... suggesting it is pinned instead. An older school method.
Three mentions of a name Riddle on this link. One possibility of a lock made by one that might fit ...
http:// https://archive.org/stream/gunmaker00satt/gunmaker00satt_djvu.txt

 

[WannaDig3687]

Half stock is in the Hawkin kind of school, but barrel looks long. Could have been a fullstock at one time.
Not a gun show off sample from the golden age of Ohio gun building....Economy of build by the trigger guard not being inlaid suggests either trying to keep price point down...or filling a demand of production. Trade rifles ,or gifts to natives could be lower price points too.

Rifles were built in multiple ways. With parts from multiple suppliers ,parts made " in house" , even to use of salvaged parts.
Lock ,stock and barrel could all have a different builder. As with the furniture the rifle wears too.
An escutcheon for one of the pictured rifles screws looks unique enough to associate with some one.
You have one name ( Riddle) to work with .
I did not see any barrel to stock key( s) showing.... suggesting it is pinned instead. An older school method.
Three mentions of a name Riddle on this link. One possibility of a lock made by one that might fit ...
http:// https://archive.org/stream/gunmaker00satt/gunmaker00satt_djvu.txt

Wow, that's a lot of information. Thanks. I'll share it with Mr. Wrightdigger.

One thing though, I think it actually came from Kentucky. That's where my father-in-law was from. But they did move to ohio at some point, so I could be wrong. Again, I will have to wait until he writes the story.
Thanks so much!
Wrightdigger

 

[releventchair]

Many gun builders ,( those in an official capacity at least) left clues.
A school of building means style. By region and era usually. Customer desires could change that ,and did create the evolution of style and design.
From European arms( some really fancy ones too) to those better suited for colonial life here. Then in time craftfull art became an influence vs. simple utility in places/ " schools" ,then back to utilitarian again with westward expansion.
Many pieces ,like a tang on a trigger guard ,or tang on a barrel could be shaped to the builders desire. A ramrod pipe could be plain ,or lines carved around them ect..Some unique to the school ,some unique to the builder, some at the whim of a customer for " flare"/ art meets function bling where a piece had to be anyway.

 

[WannaDig3687]

Alright, I gave him the information. Very much appreciated!

 

[WannaDig3687]

Update:
Mr Wrightdigger' s initial reaction ( besides laughing at my screen name and what I call him):

He's impressed with all the information you all have given so far and, "highly disappointed" he hasn't heard from his fishing buddy that is a collector.

You're winning! (There's a story behind this, maybe I'll share elsewhere sometime)

I'm not sure what this rifle worth is going to end up being, not that we're going to be selling it anyway. It's already priceless to me for the bonding moments it's giving to our family.

My Tnet friends are awesome!