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  1. #1
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    I stumbled upon this place this past summer (2010) while exploring an area west of Tulsa, Oklahoma approximately 3 miles southeast of Sand Springs on the south side of the Arkansas River.









    It was located on a creek runoff that spilled into the Arkansas River and went high into the cliffs above the river. I on the other hand found this run by hiking on the upper end of this runoff and after a little cutting with a hand saw, was able to reach the area by Jeep. When I first arrived under the shelf I immediately noticed cavings and the familiar "black soot" on the walls indicating there was a fire there long ago. I had already heard of tales of the James Gang hideout nearby that was buldozed under to make way for a Highway back in the 1950's. In fact, my quest was to entertain the fact that there was stll gold hidden up in the cliffs from Bank Robberies in the area that the locals had told me during the years I attended College in Tulsa during the 1990's.







    Upon searching the surrounding area I soon noticed a strange rock at my feet lying in the creek bed. It had an elongated shape as if to indicate a direction at one time. It had the initials "RD" carved into it as well as an oddly shaped symbol down and to the right of the initials.



    This rock is what I am most curious about. I have thouroughly photographed the location of the "Initialed Rock" and the surrounding area before removing it and bringing it home to Virginia.

    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  2. #2
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    My research turned up this bit of information....

    "The Dalton brothers were now professional outlaws. Between May 1891 and July 1892 they robbed four trains in Indian Territory. On May 9, 1891, the men held up a Santa Fe train at Wharton (now Perry). They only got away with several hundred dollars, but they had worked well as a team. As they passed Orlando, they stole eight or nine horses. A posse soon took out after them, but the gang escaped.
    Four months later the Dalton gang robbed a train of $10,000 at Lillietta in Indian Territory. In June 1892, they stopped another Santa Fe train, this time at Red Rock. Blackfaced Charley Bryant and Dick Broadwell held the engineer and fireman in the locomotive. Bob and Emmett Dalton and Bill Powers walked through the passenger cars, robbing the passengers as they went. Bill Doolin and Grat Dalton took on the express car. They threw the safe out of the train. Then with loot in hand, the robbers whooped and rode away. They gained little for their efforts--a few hundred dollars and some watches and jewelry from the passengers. The gang scattered after the Red Rock robbery, but it wasn't long until Blackfaced Charley was caught and killed in an escape attempt.
    The gang struck again in July at Adair near the Arkansas border. They went directly to the train station and took what they could find in the express and baggage rooms. Then they calmly sat down on a bench on the platform, talking and smoking, with their Winchester rifles across their knees. When the train came in at 9:45 p.m., they backed a wagon up to the express car and unloaded all the contents. There was a large armed guard on the train, but for some reason all 11 men were at the back of the train. The guards fired at the bandits through the car windows and from behind the train. In the gun fight, 200 shots were fired. None of the Dalton gang was hit. Three guards were wounded and a town doctor was killed by a stray bullet. The robbers dropped out of sight, probably hiding out in one of several caves near Tulsa, Oklahoma."

    I have also read that the symbol carved in the lower right of the rock might have refered to the "Knights of the Golden Circle" which Robert Dalton was rumoured to have been a member of.

    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  3. #3
    tink

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    I'm not getting on you but I'm not sure removing the rock was really the right thing to do. Please forgive me if I see it differently,maybe people collect this kinda thing all the time. Just seems like others could also enjoy the mystery of it just like you did when discovering it on your journey. If it is a piece of history it will be lost, out of it's place from where it might of meant something. Just my feelings and not meaning to sound harsh, just maybe something in your excitement you didn't think of perhaps.

  4. #4
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Quote Originally Posted by tink
    I'm not getting on you but I'm not sure removing the rock was really the right thing to do. Please forgive me if I see it differently,maybe people collect this kinda thing all the time. Just seems like others could also enjoy the mystery of it just like you did when discovering it on your journey. If it is a piece of history it will be lost, out of it's place from where it might of meant something. Just my feelings and not meaning to sound harsh, just maybe something in your excitement you didn't think of perhaps.
    On the contrary. The importance of this rock remaining in its original location would have made it a great icon for a bygone era however, the entire area is being bulldozed and raped of its historical significance! Just a mile away, the Jesse James Hideout has already been destroyed to make way for transportation requirements. A few hundred yards away from this site has already been clear cut, bulldozed and manicured for cell phone towers and the current Landowner has been trying to develope the property for either a housing addition or begin blasting for a rock quarry. I only removed the rock in order to research it further and in the event it is from a Dalton Hideout (the Hideout will surely not be there fo much longer) it will be a part of History preserved.

    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  5. #5
    tink

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Thanks for the reply Sean-looks like you knew what you were doing I'm glad you got it then! It's sad others won't get to enjoy that sight in the future too.Enjoy your find and I eat my words

  6. #6
    us
    It's all good!!

    Jan 2006
    oklahoma
    bounty hunter pioneer 202,505, Tesoro Vaquero
    333
    12 times

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    I'm sorry I just don't see a Dalton doing such a thing. Cool find anyway's.

  7. #7
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deftone
    I'm sorry I just don't see a Dalton doing such a thing. Cool find anyway's.
    Doing what? Marking a cache with a rock or working for the Knights of the Golden Circle? Or having a Hideout?

    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  8. #8
    us
    Apr 2010
    686
    114 times

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    You oughtta get Old Dog to look at this in Signs and Symbols, might as well try to find the loot before the dozers come.

  9. #9
    us
    Aug 2010
    N.C.
    375
    2 times

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Ok first of all, I think it's cool! yes. Now, if it were part of the Dalton gang or any gang's hide out they are either Stupid or Suicidal!!!.
    Think about it, they had multiple posse's and sheriffs and pinkertons chasing them!. Why would anyone mark their hideout with their initials and symbols on the off chance that someone finds it and sets up an ambush. If they ran with Jesse RIP, he would have taught them how to escape and hide without being caught.

  10. #10
    us
    Jul 2010
    Middletown, Pennsylvania
    Spectrum XLT
    213
    1 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    From the pictures, the site looks like a good place to find Native American artifacts. Probably a few latter year curios as well from campers who used the natural shelter.

    Buried loot? Well proceed with caution. I have real problems with the loot portion of these tales. Buried loot, buried gold. Why bury it? Didn't they divide the proceeds and go forth and spend it? What were they robbing for? A rainy day? They must have had good paying jobs on the side. Every robber caught around here has always spent all or some of the loot till caught. I've never heard of any doing any midnight work with pick and shovel.
    Dispenser of sage wisdom

  11. #11
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    It is well documented that robbers hid loot for whatever reasons (lighten the load while evading capture, store items stolen until attention in lessened on the robbery, ect). The rock would have indicated a hiding place of the loot, not the Hideout itself. The Hideou was just that....hidden however, loot was further hidden in the event unsuspecting wanderers stumbed upon a hideout.

    Now the robbery in question is well documented to have occurred in Adair, Oklahoma (about 30 miles east of the Hideout location) on July 14, 1892 in wic several of the members were injured and that they were followed west near the location of the hideout. The locations of the Hideouts were not known then and later only rumoured to exist. All members of the Gang except Emmett Dalton, were killed in their very next robbery in which they tried to rob two Banks at once in Coffeyville, Kansas. I have no doubt that the loot has long since been removed since Emmett was Pardoned by the Governor 15 years later and resumed a normal life, even writing a book When the Daltons Ride, 1937 about his illustrious career as a criminal and Lawman.

    My intention here is not to invoke that I have found any long lost treasure of a Gang of Outlaws but to point out that the possibilities of the Historical significance of this location is interestingly important and in danger of being completely removed. The rock in question is the only rock that displayed recognizeable initials and a symbol and strikingly resembled a "Treasure Rock" identifying a hidden location.

    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  12. #12
    us
    monty

    Jan 2005
    Sand Springs, OK
    ACE 250, Garrett
    10,748
    75 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    I live and grew up couple of miles from the area you are talking about. For years the kids, including me, went into that area to a nearby swimming hole and skinny dipped and went hiking and hunting. Several of us carved our initials into the rocks around that area and I don't think it is all that old. However, the area just East of Chandler Park was known as "Lost City" and it was rumored it was once a hideout of sorts. I also heard a story about someone finding an old stage coach that was smased down into a crevice and it supposidly held some gold. But me and a thousand other kids ran those hills for a long time and never found anything remotely resembeling treasure. I think it is all made up rumors. But that is just my personal opinion and an educated guess. Monty
    Don't make me loose the hounds! If you dig, Cover up your holes.

  13. #13
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monty
    I live and grew up couple of miles from the area you are talking about. For years the kids, including me, went into that area to a nearby swimming hole and skinny dipped and went hiking and hunting. Several of us carved our initials into the rocks around that area and I don't think it is all that old. However, the area just East of Chandler Park was known as "Lost City" and it was rumored it was once a hideout of sorts. I also heard a story about someone finding an old stage coach that was smased down into a crevice and it supposidly held some gold. But me and a thousand other kids ran those hills for a long time and never found anything remotely resembeling treasure. I think it is all made up rumors. But that is just my personal opinion and an educated guess. Monty
    I agree with you Monty that the area has definitely been picked over not to mention relatives as well as Emmett Dalton himself has no doubt recovered any items left in the area. Some locals have said that some gold was recovered from the area in the 1980's as it was on the local news channel in Tulsa however, nothing since has surfaced or at least no one has claimed to have found anything. I did find a complete old Jeep at the base of a cliff in the Lost City area that was probably stolen and dumped out there many years ago but have seen nothing to indicate treasure still being in the area. I simply believe the rock to be very old. The initials and symbol look to be carved into the rock I have more than 50 years ago and I believe them to be 100 years ago.
    Sean
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

  14. #14
    us
    monty

    Jan 2005
    Sand Springs, OK
    ACE 250, Garrett
    10,748
    75 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Unti about 40 years ago there wasn't any way to get to most of that area except by foot. There is an old sanitary land fill just west of the Lost City area. The landfill was once a rock quarry and had a cement block plant back in the 1940s and 1950s. The only access was a narrow gravel and dirt road running from what is known as Prattville to the old DX refinery and then onto 21st Street in Tulsa. The quarry was on top of the hill near Berryhill and there was a a crushing machine on top of the hill and a gravity fed chute across the road toward the river at the bottom where the trucks loaded gravel. The only thing left is the huge cement gravel bin at the bottom of the hill next to the Burlington RR tracks. There was no other access to the area to the west until Chandler park was built in about 1960. Then there was an old road from what is now "River Road" going up the hill to the west end of the park. That road was closed off in the late 1970s. All this time we kids use to run those hills by foot. There was several foot paths going through that area but no roads until they opened West 41 st Street that was on the south end of the tract and was once known as Hopkins Road or Roller Coaster road. That area is now developed with several homes and a Jr. College and National Guard and Reserve Center. I noticed several roads carved into the tract from 41st street. About 5 years ago I took my ATV and explored some of the area and found the old swimming hole and noticed several other two wheel cowpath type roads going back deeper into the woods. Local teenagers use to go off roading in that area with Jeeps and 4w drive vehicles. The land was once owned by the Sand Springs home who was forced by the IRS to sell off their holdings in the 1980s. So now it is private property. One of the new owners has tried to get zoning to open it up to a gravel quarry but the local Board of Adjustment will not approve it mainly because of the abuting land owners protests and the projected wear and tear on the roads and the heavy traffic it would cause, as well as the blasting. The new owner(s) have pretty much ruined the historical appeal of the land or so I am told by grading and destroying some of the bluffs and natural settings. This place was a part of my life growing up in the area and I have lived here since a child in 1949. Monty
    Don't make me loose the hounds! If you dig, Cover up your holes.

  15. #15
    us
    May 2010
    West Point, Virginia
    34

    Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monty
    Unti about 40 years ago there wasn't any way to get to most of that area except by foot. There is an old sanitary land fill just west of the Lost City area. The landfill was once a rock quarry and had a cement block plant back in the 1940s and 1950s. The only access was a narrow gravel and dirt road running from what is known as Prattville to the old DX refinery and then onto 21st Street in Tulsa. The quarry was on top of the hill near Berryhill and there was a a crushing machine on top of the hill and a gravity fed chute across the road toward the river at the bottom where the trucks loaded gravel. The only thing left is the huge cement gravel bin at the bottom of the hill next to the Burlington RR tracks. There was no other access to the area to the west until Chandler park was built in about 1960. Then there was an old road from what is now "River Road" going up the hill to the west end of the park. That road was closed off in the late 1970s. All this time we kids use to run those hills by foot. There was several foot paths going through that area but no roads until they opened West 41 st Street that was on the south end of the tract and was once known as Hopkins Road or Roller Coaster road. That area is now developed with several homes and a Jr. College and National Guard and Reserve Center. I noticed several roads carved into the tract from 41st street. About 5 years ago I took my ATV and explored some of the area and found the old swimming hole and noticed several other two wheel cowpath type roads going back deeper into the woods. Local teenagers use to go off roading in that area with Jeeps and 4w drive vehicles. The land was once owned by the Sand Springs home who was forced by the IRS to sell off their holdings in the 1980s. So now it is private property. One of the new owners has tried to get zoning to open it up to a gravel quarry but the local Board of Adjustment will not approve it mainly because of the abuting land owners protests and the projected wear and tear on the roads and the heavy traffic it would cause, as well as the blasting. The new owner(s) have pretty much ruined the historical appeal of the land or so I am told by grading and destroying some of the bluffs and natural settings. This place was a part of my life growing up in the area and I have lived here since a child in 1949. Monty
    Great background info Monty! I was shown this property by some very good friends of mine from the Sand Springs and Prattville area as I was there attending College in Tulsa but originally from here in Virginia. I hear many locals grew up exploring that area and that the Outlaws were more of a secondary interest as it is truly a vey unique area with the cliffs, old mining structures and ponds located throughout the property. It is truly an adventure to explore! I myself have spent many nights campng on one of the ponds near Prattville (just off of the powerlines) and in fact, when the house I was renting in Jenks burned down I packed up my Jeep and lived "on the Hill" as it was popularly known as for over two months! Sleeping n a tent or my Jeep after removing the passenger seat for room to stretch out and showering at the public bath house off of Hiway 51 at the State Park on Lake Keystone. It was a rough time but I stayed in school and Graduated in 1997. I always look forward to visiting Oklahoma and visiting the cliffs at Chandler Park (and beyond) again!
    You never know when you might need to know how to jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

 

 
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