Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?
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  1. #1
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
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    Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    I found two odd items that are in the Atlanta Battlefield area. I also found a three ringer bullet within a few yards of these items.

    The Civil War Confederate Flag item may be an after the war pen of some kind. I included the back of it but the back doesn't give me a clue as to what this item was for. I would appreciate anyone's input on this.

    The piece of button is a Scottish Coat of Arms from what my research found. I found a 50's era button that was similar but this button seems to be older in my opinion. It is just the front of a button.....maybe a two piece design.

    The writing on the button is .....SPECTEMUR AGENDO.

    I am really curious about this Flag item. It would be cool if it was a Civil War period piece.

    Thanks folks!
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  2. #2
    us
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    During the Civil War Confederate battle flags were square, not rectangle. The rectangle flag is a modern apocryphal representation.

    DCMatt
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  3. #3
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCMatt
    During the Civil War Confederate battle flags were square, not rectangle. The rectangle flag is a modern apocryphal representation.

    DCMatt
    I don't know Matt, maybe. When you make jewelry, that license of square not rectangle could be thrown out by the artist that makes it.

    Still, this is a unique piece found in a battleground area. The mystery continues.

    Even the Scottish button is a mystery. I know that this button is still made today, but when were they first made is the mystery. Others have found this same Scottish button but don't know the exact date of the find they discover. This button has some kind of significance to our Nation's history. Was this a button worn in the 1800's? Sometimes the Confederates wore clothes that were not exactly what every other soldier was wearing. These Scottish soldiers could have worn clothes that were honoring their heritage. Just guessing though.
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  4. #4
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
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    24 times
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCMatt
    During the Civil War Confederate battle flags were square, not rectangle. The rectangle flag is a modern apocryphal representation.

    DCMatt
    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...gs&FORM=IDFRIR

    I have to disagree about all Confederate flags being square. The link above is to a captured Confederate Flag. It is rectangle for sure.

    Thanks anyway Matt. I didn't know that the Confederate Flag was square too. I will post the picture in the next post.
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  5. #5
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Here is the captured Flag I found that is a rectangle.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Thanks bigcypresshunter

    I think this button has been around a long time. It is a curious piece.

    The enameled button is old considering the back of the piece. I am just wondering how old.

    Since no one has come forward about the Flag item, I guess this goes in the books as one of those pieces that can't be identified.

    The mystery continues for me.

    Thank you everybody for the input.
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    "It would seem as though the Creator, himself, had electrically designed this planet"........."Nikola Tesla"

  7. #7
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    You know, I said it was a pen of some kind.....But..... the size of this rusty part of the back makes me think that it is something that may not have been something that went on clothes.

    Of course I could be wrong. I thought that the back would be telling about what it is but no one has said anything about the back.

    I do know that enameling was being done in France at the time......and.... some of the supplies that the Confederate army did use came from France. I think some of the Swords were French made. I wonder if this may be an embellishment on some kind of Sword or knife.....or even something else.

    In a battle, this type of embellishment could have come off. I really think this is more of an embellishment piece that was not on clothing.

    For that reason, I think that this piece may be a period piece if it is not a clothing item......Unless they made more embellished swords, knives, and such after the war and this piece came off of a post war period piece.
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    "It would seem as though the Creator, himself, had electrically designed this planet"........."Nikola Tesla"

  8. #8
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    I will try to clean up the back a bit and do the magnet test.

    I live in Ga. I have been to the Capital where many flags are displayed. I have seen Rectangle Confederate Flags, (Plural), there on my visits. These flags are very large at the Capital. I will take some pictures of them the next time I visit.

    It is very hard to get into the Capital at times these days. There can only be so many visitors at the Capital building at one time. It used to be open all of the time before 9/11. Dang Muslims! They screw it up for everybody.

    OK, there are no magnetic properties to this item. I used an earth magnet for the test.

    The item is 6 & 1/2 tenths by 7 1/2 tenths in size.....almost square.

    What I thought was rust turns out to be Ga. Clay.

    I looks like at some point the center was a circle of metal. I broke off a piece of this metal circle while trying to get the clay off and I quit when I did this.

    As you can see, the back of this metal may be chromed or maybe silver.

    This must be metal oxidation that looks like rust. There is no rust on the enameled piece at all, front or back.

    I think the clay adhered to the oxidation on the metal that forms a circle.

    I hope this cleanup helps to identify the piece.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Copy of BACK OF CIVIL WAR FLAG A.jpg 
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    "It would seem as though the Creator, himself, had electrically designed this planet"........."Nikola Tesla"

  9. #9
    ca
    Sep 2008
    Grande Prairie, AB
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Could this have been a fridge magnet? The round hole could be where the magnet was "glued or epoxied" to the metal.


  10. #10
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcypresshunter
    Quote Originally Posted by aurumdigga
    OK, there are no magnetic properties to this item. I used an earth magnet for the test.

    The item is 6 & 1/2 tenths by 7 1/2 tenths in size.....almost square.
    Where did you find that scale in tenths? In tenths of what? Is that an architectural scale? Is it scaled in inches? Is that metric underneath? Can you please tell us the size using standard American or Metric measurements such as 1-1/4 inch?

    I used a foot ruler. I could have used centimeters but most Americans go by the inches to make sense of a foot rather than how many centimeters a foot is long. I was just giving a ball park size of the piece.

    The basic ruler that I used was broken up in tenths per inch here. I could have said 13/20 inches by 15/20 inches but that would have been less informative. I was just estimating by using the ruler that I had.

    If you are a European, I will translate this into centimeters for you. 16.5 cm by 19.1 cm.

    Yes, this could have been Nickel plated but enameled pieces are put on nickel plate I suppose. I don't know how long they have been doing that. If this was a simple embellishment, I don't see where using silver would have been needed.

    Thanks for the replies,...... Still a mystery though.
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    "It would seem as though the Creator, himself, had electrically designed this planet"........."Nikola Tesla"

  11. #11
    ca
    Sep 2008
    Grande Prairie, AB
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Aurumdigga, You must have meant 19.1mm x 16.5mm.

    Anyways, this could also be a souvenir type item previously attached to almost anything, from decorative bolt head covers, light switch knob cover, to ornaments. Now knowing how small it is, it is making it harder to visualize what the hole in the back was used for.

    Here's an example of the flag used for decorations, but I can't tell how it is attached in this picture.

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  12. #12
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Thanks GPsnoopy, I like those boot flags. That looks cool. I did mean cm though. I think mm would have been mighty small.

    I am going to post a three ringer that I dug up within a few yards of this flag item here. Then on another post, I am going to put a dime next to this item to get the full perspective of the size of the item. I dunno, measurements are hard to relate to items sometimes.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    Educator

    Feb 2006
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    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Aurumdigga, your "European arse" comment was both uncalled-for and factually-incorrect. The icon-&-member-info section on BigCypressHunter's posts shows he lives in South Florida. Also, the lingo in his writings (and especially his signature-line) shows he is definitely American-born-&-raised. ;-)

    I've been watching this discussion for a while, waiting for the back of the CSA-flag "pin" to be cleaned before I said anything about it. Your newly-posted photo showing its cleaned-up back reveals that it is indeed nickel-plated. Therefore, I can now say with confidence that it definitely is from later than the civil war era. But as BigCypressHunter said, do not be discouraged ...there's still a significant quantity of civil war relics waiting to be dug up in the Atlanta area.

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  14. #14
    ca
    Sep 2008
    Grande Prairie, AB
    MXT, Sovereign GT, CTX 3030
    415
    163 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    Quote Originally Posted by aurumdigga
    Thanks GPsnoopy, I like those boot flags. That looks cool. I did mean cm though. I think mm would have been mighty small.
    I think we have a misunderstanding of cm vs inches. If you really meant cm, then you are telling us that the confederate flag item is about the same size as your entire hand. (16.5cm x 19.1cm = 6.5 inches x 7.5 inches)

    Or is it about the size of an american nickle, which is 21.21mm in diameter.
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  15. #15
    us
    Whitey

    Oct 2011
    Cumming, Ga.
    AT Gold
    102
    24 times
    Prospecting

    Re: Civil War Confederate Flag Pen?

    OK, I should have done this sooner.

    Now you can see that this piece would fit on something very small. This is why I considered that it was some kind of clothes embellishment at first.

    Thanks for the help if this size picture helps to figure it out.

    Please excuse the shading. I need some more light for closeups indoors.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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