Apr 25, 2012, 10:21 PM
Apr 25, 2012 10:21 PM
Apr 25, 2012, 10:36 PM
Its a Brandy type enclosure but could have been used for Whiskey. Im going out on a limb here and I still think the possibility exists of a nice manganese 3 piece mould 1895-1915. Value is still 5-10.
Apr 25, 2012, 10:41 PM
I was told this bottle along with the impact of your ID work will be on display at the Drennen-Scott House in Arkansas.
Apr 25, 2012, 10:44 PM
If it turns out to be machine made bottle, which it might be, then we're looking at a circa 1905 to 1915 bottle. If I had it in my hands I could tell you in two minutes if it was machine made or not.
Together with Libbey and others, Owens formed the Owens Bottle Machine Company in 1903. With continued development and improvements, by the time he obtained patent No.774,690 on Nov 8, 1904, he had a machine capable to producing four bottles per second.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 25, 2012 at 10:51 PM.
Apr 25, 2012, 11:56 PM
Yep but we only have pictures. To me it was a simple ID that turned into a very complicated 100 reply thread because I had to back up and explain every word and I guess thats the way it should be. The system works. My 1904-05 Illiinois Glass Catalog is most likely ABM because it was one of the largest glass manufacturers at the time. It has artist renditions of every size and shape imaginable. It goes on to explain how the buyer could purchase a plate mould on large orders for embossing that leaves an extra seam. This was before the embossing law. I also have several pages of packaging and shipping crates. Its a great book for identification of unembossed bottles often overlooked.
What it doesnt show is the bottoms and Im wondering if the Owens suction mark should be visible?
Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 26, 2012 at 12:05 AM.
Apr 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
Apr 26, 2012, 01:02 AM
If skite's bottle were mine I would slap a sticker on it ... circa 1910 And that's my final answer!
Apr 26, 2012, 01:44 AM
The Maverick is also in my 1904-05 book. Its labeled trade name "Maverick Brandy" But I thought the "Delaware Brandy" was a better match. Ill take a pic.
Apr 26, 2012, 01:57 AM
My cover is missing but Im pretty sure its a 1904 or 1905 Illinois Glass Catalogue. Either way my original approximate observation that this is a 100 year old bottle is close enough and didnt deserve ridicule and I certainly didnt deserve slander.
Apr 26, 2012, 02:06 AM
The Minnesota Brandy, Chicago Brandy, Chicago Fancy, Starlight Brandy, and the Fluted Whiskey among many other registered Brandies are all in my Illinois Glass book. It has all the shapes available for purchase in 1904-1905.
It also covers everything from preserve ware, medicines, syringes, fish globes, druggist sundries and perfumers ware and as well as shop ware and glass labels. Its a great book for early 1900 glass.
Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 26, 2012 at 02:10 AM.
Apr 26, 2012, 02:13 AM
Apr 26, 2012, 02:18 AM
There are slight variations but I took the time to search through the entire liquor bottle section. I wasnt just taking a wild guess.
I even have a soda section. I dont think any more proof is necessary but is the Delaware Brandy in the 1920 Owens catalog?'
Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 26, 2012 at 02:23 AM.
Apr 26, 2012, 02:21 AM
No. The Maverick was the closest style. I'm still locked in to skite's bottle as being circa 1910. Which is just another way of saying (circle/around) 1905 to 1915.
Originally Posted by Bigcypresshunter
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 26, 2012 at 02:30 AM.
Apr 26, 2012, 02:31 AM
Thats close enough for arguments sake without further pictures. Of note here is that it appears that at some period this registered Brandy was used for Whiskey. I dont know if thats important but I have no problem with it. We may find it was used for something else.
Im calling it quits. Im still saddened by the attacks on my character and Im checking out. Good luck.
Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 26, 2012 at 02:33 AM.
Apr 26, 2012, 10:26 AM
I realize you said there were no marks - letters - numbers embossed on the bottle, but I was hoping you could humor me by taking another look, perhaps with a magnifying glass if necessary. The reason I ask is because it is extremely unusual for a bottle to not have a Makers Mark on it. Sometimes they are hard to see and might seem insignificant. But in reality the marks are often valid clues to dating and identifying. Look for little squares ~ circles ~ diamonds, and/or just about anything along those lines. Below is the info related to both the Illinois Glass Co. and the Owens Glass Co. After the merger in 1929 their new mark looked something like this ... <(I)>
Of course it may have been made by someone other than either Owens or Illinois. In that case the Makers Mark could be one of a hundred or more different ones. Some glass factory definitely made that bottle, and their mark should be on it somewhere. And if not on the very bottom, look on the perimeter around the base or what is typically referred to as the "heel."
Thanks a lot.
Illinois Glass Company / Makers Mark
I within a diamond ... Illinois Glass Company, Alton, IL (1873-1929). This mark was used from around 1915 to 1929. ABM (Automatic bottle machine) production was begun at Illinois Glass in 1910, and although I had presumed that the "I in a diamond" trademark was first used around that time, the U.S.Patent & Trademark Office data indicates Illinois Glass claimed use of this trademark was not begun until 1915. As far as I know, this mark is seen only on machine-made bottles which exhibit the typical Owens machine suction scars on the base. On very small bottles, the "I" may look like a dot inside the diamond, or be virtually illegible. Other plants that became part of Illinois Glass Co. during its operation include the Thompson Bottle Company of Gas City, IN (acquired 1913); Chicago Heights Glass Company, Chicago Heights, IL (1913) and Cumberland Glass Manufacturing Company, Bridgeton, NJ (1920).
Illinois-Pacific Glass Co. Plants (at Los Angeles and San Francisco, CA) were organized as a wholly owned subsidiary of Illinois Glass in 1902. (See IPG and IPGCO marks.) In 1929, Illinois Glass merged with Owens Bottle Company of Toledo, Ohio to form the Owens-Illinois Glass Company. The Alton factory (in later years, Owens-Illinois plant #7) closed in 1983. See also "I.G.CO." and "IGCO within a diamond" entries.
Illinois Glass Company, Alton, IL (1873-1929). Mark used c. 1910s-1929.
Owens Glass Company / Makers Mark
O in a square ... Owens Bottle Company, Toledo OH (1903-1929), also Fairmont, WV; Clarksburg, WV, and other plant locations. Owens Bottle Co. Merged with the Illinois Glass Company of Alton, IL in 1929 to form the Owens-Illinois Glass Company. (Julian Toulouse stated this mark was first used in 1911, but according to U.S. Patent & Trademark Office data, Owens claimed first use was not until 1919! Take your pick on which date you will accept :-). See "OWENS".
Owens Bottle Company, Toledo, OH (1903-1929) and it's successor [after the merger with Illinois Glass Company], Owens-Illinois Glass Company (1929-to date). Mark is confirmed on a clear druggist bottle with date code of 1947. Sometimes just the "O" of "Owens" is enclosed within a square. I don't know when this mark was first used during the OBC years, so will have to go with "1903-1929" until further info is uncovered. I believe the mark was used up into the 1950s or '60s by Owens-Illinois, but have no definite info on ending date. See "O in a square."
Here are a couple of magnified Makers Marks located on a bottle heel. In reality they are quite small, maybe the size of a pencil eraser or even smaller, and often times hard to see.
IPG in a Triangle = Illinois Pacific Glass
mTc = Thatcher Mfg. Co.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 26, 2012 at 07:39 PM.
Apr 26, 2012, 09:11 PM
A little added note about the manganese in the glass. This what I remember from about 40 years ago when I bottle hunted regularly. The natural color of glass was aqua, and it was discovered that adding manganese made the glass clear. Then, over time, exposure to the suns UV rays would turn the glass purple, known as amethyst. The US was getting it's supply of manganese from Germany, so when we entered the war in 1914, naturally that supply came to an end. That is why amethyst glass is normally pre 1915.
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