$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

[aarthrj3811]

Tell me you understand that concept, and the general rule of the test.

Hey Jean.....I do understand the CHALLENGE...It seems that you do not..It is important that when you promote anything that you know what you are talking about. It seems that Randi and the JREF have a different view point on the challenge. IT IS THEIR CHALLENGE AND THEIR MONEY so their view point is more important than yours. So when this statement was made at a 2005 convention it is a major fact about the CHALLENGE....

If a "psychic" phenomenon turns out to be real, then by definition it is physical and therefore not really psychic after all, and thus Randi shouldn't have to pay
Just more proof that the CHALLENGE is a LLAD.....Art

 

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[ClonedSIM]

If a "psychic" phenomenon turns out to be real, then by definition it is physical and therefore not really psychic after all, and thus Randi shouldn't have to pay

Who made this statement? Was it a dowser?

 

[Jean310]

Hey Jean.....I do understand the CHALLENGE...It seems that you do not..It is important that when you promote anything that you know what you are talking about. It seems that Randi and the JREF have a different view point on the challenge. IT IS THEIR CHALLENGE AND THEIR MONEY so their view point is more important than yours. So when this statement was made at a 2005 convention it is a major fact about the CHALLENGE....

If a "psychic" phenomenon turns out to be real, then by definition it is physical and therefore not really psychic after all, and thus Randi shouldn't have to pay
Just more proof that the CHALLENGE is a LLAD.....Art

Okay, Art --now listen real close, perhaps you should even try standing up when you read this, because I'm sure a lot of my postings and others, are going right over your head. I'm headed to a staff meeting very shortly so won't have time to repeat myself for your benefit.
_________________________________________________

I have no idea if the statement you made is true or not; it may very well be. That statement being; if a psychic phenomenon turns out to be real, then by definition it is physical and therefore not really psychic.

But just for the sake of this interchange between you and me, I'll assume it was a valid statement.

Here are some FACTS for you:

FACT: I have been in contact with the Randi Organization, rather recently, and they have led me to believe that ALL MANNER of DOWSING falls within the realm of a psychic claim.

That said; if you consider the practice of Dowsing has been around for thousands of years and to this very instant in time, NO DOWSER (or anyone else for that matter) has been able to produce evidence that Dowsing is anything close to a physical phenomenon, I find it extremely unlikely that it will suddenly be declared a physical entity the instant you might take the Randi Challenge.

In that regard, I think you can forget about the likelihood of dowsing being declared a physical phenomenon, either in our lifetimes or those of our great grand-children.

Do you understand what I just said?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Who made this statement? Was it a dowser?

No, it was not a Dowser...If you had read the posts back on page 9 you would know who said it....I will give you a clue...He was on stage with Randi at a Las Vagas convention in 2005. ...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Who made this statement? Was it a dowser?

No, it was not a Dowser...If you had read the posts back on page 9 you would know who said it....I will give you a clue...He was on stage with Randi at a Las Vagas convention in 2005. ...Art

Whomever it was, I'm sure it was addressed at that time and you simply leave this out of your quotes. Please refer the Jean's post below. And if you consider this to be a true statement, why not just write Randi, as Jean did, and get clarification?

But, no. I suppose you'd rather use this one sentence as your entire excuse to not have you "ability" tested.

 

[Carl-NC]

If a "psychic" phenomenon turns out to be real, then by definition it is physical and therefore not really psychic after all, and thus Randi shouldn't have to pay

Who made this statement? Was it a dowser?

It was Richard Dawkins, in a discussion with Randi at one of the JREF conferences. Video is on YouTube. Randi's reply, paraphrased, was that "It will be well-worth $1 million to discover something new."

Of course, since everything is written up in a legally-binding contract, Randi has no choice but to pay up, regardless of whether a psychic phenomenon turns out to be "real," or even whether someone gets through the test by cheating. It doesn't matter. The money is paid if the test is passed. All these discussions alleging otherwise are alibis for avoiding the challenge.

- Carl

 

[ClonedSIM]

Thanks, Carl!

 

[aarthrj3811]

Gee SWR....It seems that I am right....Read before you type....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Gee SWR....It seems that I am right....Read before you type....Art

Yeah, what the heck are you talking about, Art?

 

[aarthrj3811]

This will be my last post to this thread....We have proved using Randi's and his pardners own words that the Challenge is bogus...Randi has proved that you people have no idea about how his challenge works. 1269 posts and you you still make the same posts...You may want to contact Randi and tell him to shut up as he is making you guys look bad....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

This will be my last post to this thread....We have proved using Randi's and his pardners own words that the Challenge is bogus...Randi has proved that you people have no idea about how his challenge works. 1269 posts and you you still make the same posts...You may want to contact Randi and tell him to shut up as he is making you guys look bad....Art

Well, Art, don't forget the fact that about 600 of these posts are yours, asking the same questions over and over again...

Oh, and you've proved as much about Randi's challenge as you've proved about dowsing.....zilch!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=SWR . If I said: "I can't swim"and then:"I can swim when i use a life-jacket"
It wouldn't be contradictory.It's not considered swimming if you have to use a life-jacket

************
clarify swr, "what is swimming"? In the war I saw many men SWIMMING away from a sinking ship in order to not be drawn under with the ship. Most of the lucky ones had life jackets.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A biased sample is one that is falsely taken to be typical of a population from which it is drawn

Tropical Tramp

 

[Captain Trips]

This will be my last post to this thread....We have proved using Randi's and his pardners own words that the Challenge is bogus...Randi has proved that you people have no idea about how his challenge works. 1269 posts and you you still make the same posts...You may want to contact Randi and tell him to shut up as he is making you guys look bad....Art

Who is this "we" you are saying proved the challenge is bogus? And how have you done so? By saying (and I paraphrase) "I refuse to take the challenge because what I do isn't para-normal?" That's no proof.

As Carl pointed out, Randi has already entered into a legally binding contract to pay if any of the phenomena he says (NOT that you say) is paranormal are shown to operate under the conditions of the challenge. I've pointed this out before: IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT'S PARA-NORMAL OR NOT!!! The money is there, it can be won by performing feats that RANDI says are paranormal.

(I've been gone a while, I'm actually glad to see this thread has died out. The likes of you and Dell have made it really rather pointless -- as has been pointed out, about half of the posts are from the both of you saying "Randi is bogus." Well, repetition of a statement doesn't make it true, no matter how often you parrot it.)

To anyone else who may be reading this thread, be on notice: the challenge is changing in April. Instead of taking applicants, they will be actively pursuing those with a media presence who are making extraordinary claims.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Yes it is changing...He is now going after Entertainers...I wonder if any one will every get to take the Challenge...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Yeah Art...Homeopathic medicines are pretty entertaining :::rolls eyes:::

Randi's targets are John Edwards (TV Star) Sylvia Browne (TV Star) Uri Geller (TV Star) and James Van Praugh (TV Producer)...How come you don't know these facts. Just call Randi and he will tell you....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Yeah Art...Homeopathic medicines are pretty entertaining :::rolls eyes:::

Randi's targets are John Edwards (TV Star) Sylvia Browne (TV Star) Uri Geller (TV Star) and James Van Praugh (TV Producer)...How come you don't know these facts. Just call Randi and he will tell you....Art

I personally don't find any of these folks entertaining.....

 

[Captain Trips]

Actually, those aren't his only targets. And you can still apply to take the challenge, but now you will have to have some sort of a media presence first. Such as a local newspaper article about you and your abilities.

The reason for the challenge is that he really wants to go after those who are making millions off of their victims. For example, Sylvia charges $700 for a 20-30 minute phone call where she tells you your biliruben count is a little off, you have 6 guardian angels (one of whom is named Michael) and tells you things about yourself that no one else knew -- not even you, because she can't do a very good "cold reading" over the phone! (The things she will tell you about yourself are either so vague you can't disagree, or turn out to be completely in error.)

If you are saying you can dowse but don't need to prove it to anyone, you are only deluding yourself. Randi really wants to go after those who are deluding hundreds, thousands, or even millions of people. Dell Winders and his amazing gadget boxes just don't measure up. Although, if Dell continues to rip people off for huge sums for a box of electronic junk, AND gets media coverage for it, well, he just might find the JREF knocking on his door. And THEN he will get his chance to prove himself. (Which we all know he'll refuse to do, right Dell?)

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI bk for a shortyt: A bit on testing, which is nicely ignored, basically is explained in the infamous post # 6. as well as in the following cut / Paste data.
**********

"Whatever the fear, failure or whatever, the pattern that follows is usually predictable. You start to feel a knot in your stomach as you contemplate the thought, and you get sucked into a repetitive thinking pattern of fear. The strong emotion (fear) then powers the thought. When the thought comes again, your body 'remembers' the strong emotion, and the fearful thought has an even stronger connection in your mind. You may even continue to spend the rest of your test thinking about that fear. It can become very obsessive and may even keep you from concentrating on whatever is at hand.\
************

Note in particular, that that a past failure can heavily influence the results. No-one has a 100 % track record in Metal detecting, let alone dowsing. This is magnified when undergoing a formal test with known sceptics, an unfamiliar location, or in / on a public media.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hio;

why won't the doubter discuss this post #6 or #88 and ohers?
« on: Jan 10, 2007, 06:45:29 PM » Quote Modify Remove

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi CARL, Yes to minimize, not "ELIMINATE" , hence all such tests are subject to question and intimate review, especially when the emotional/mental/physical aspects of the people are involved. In this type of case, it is impossible to do so. Even if all try to the best of their ability to be impartial or to succeed, it is still impossible, due to what you called "self delusional beliefs" triggered by perhaps the subconscience from a past experience or reading, or even in being subjected to a feeling of inferiority because of present surrounding and type or attitude of the testers. Hence any conclusions based upon pure statistics in this type of test, is at best a semi-educated guess.

For a dowsing test to be "VALID", the SAME dowser should be subjected to a large no. of tests in the same exact manner in many different conditions and under (A) all testers that believe in Dowsing , (B) All of those that do not, plus (C) an equally divided group. Only under these conditions can one draw a "reasonable" idea.

Anything less is completely unacceptable as true Scientific testing since we are dealing with a complex interwoven group of Psychlogical as well a Physiological feeds all modulating each other.. Any of which can be altered easily by the present testing conditions.

Incidentally, please do not continue to post the same past flawed results which in no way can be considered as truly scientific, unless you have set up a very low set of standards for yourself..

Tropical Tramp


"

 

[ClonedSIM]

And THEN he will get his chance to prove himself. (Which we all know he'll refuse to do, right Dell?)

Already been tested by Randi. Been there done that. He lied about it and refused to apologize. His and the Skeptic attacks to dis-credit my honesty are cover up attempts of his untruthfullnes and the use of false pretense to get me to take his test. Randi, knows full well what I am referring too.

Yes, I refuse any offers other than a publicapology for his slander of my name, that this man has to make.

That is an interesting article there, Dell, but I have to agree with SWR. This article was written in 1992. Have they actually recovered anything yet? How do you know you actually found something?

And, let's be honest, Dell. If you actually believed that Randi defamed you in some way, you do have recourses. If you can prove that he defamed you, then you can sue him. Take him to court. Don't sit here and whine about it. Be a man and step up and stand by your statements.