1622 fleet Shipwrecks

[charlie23]

Hello,

I wanted to ask about the shipwrecks of the 1622, of the Marques de Cadereyta.

We all know about the Atocha and the Santa Margarita, but there were many others, like the Nuestra Señora del Rosario, that went down near the Dry Tortugas.

Why aren´t this other shipwrecks of the same 1622 fleet been explored, and only the Atocha and the Santa margarita??

Thank you.

 

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[stevemc]

Apparently they went down in very deep water. Or maybe there is some in shallower water that have not been found. They are still out there looking and working the area.

 

[saltydog1733]

The Rosario has been located in very shallow water and was partially investigated by underwater archaeology students from Florida State University. Somewhere online there used to be a report of this investigation. I believe the site however lies within the Dry Tortuga National Park and is strictly off limits.

Salty

 

[Au_Dreamers]

It is "believed" that the Rosario is right off Loggerhead Key along with a patache nearby.

The Spanish found the Rosario and survivors of her and the patache on Loggerhead Key. They then burned it to the waterline to get to the valuables. As with the Atocha and Margarita the second hurricane came through and put a stop to salvage.

The Rosario and patache are "believed" to be an artifact haven...

Some people do "believe" that state people and park people use it for their personal treasure wreck. But we all know how nasty rumors can be...

 

[saltydog1733]

Some people do "believe" that state people and park people use it for their personal treasure wreck. But we all know how nasty rumors can be...

Actually I heard the same thing, by a captain that runs a tour boat out there to Ft. Jefferson.

 

[stevemc]

There is the wreck that was found in deep waters (1200' - 1500') or so, off Dry Tortugas about 10 years ago. Much treasure was recovered by ROVs, and the ship was in very good, fairly whole shape. I was thinking that was the Rosario mentioned, but I guess not. It was a 1622 fleet ship. There are some wrecks that have not been worked, that could be from that fleet, in deep water, deeper than normal scuba will allow. Or at least air.

 

[Bum Luck]

Some people do "believe" that state people and park people use it for their personal treasure wreck. But we all know how nasty rumors can be...

Actually I heard the same thing, by a captain that runs a tour boat out there to Ft. Jefferson.

There's two classes: them and us.

 

[allen_idaho]

The 1622 fleet resulted in a total of 8 wrecks.

The Atocha, located in the Marquesas Keys and extensively salvaged by Mel Fisher and Co.

The Santa Margarita, salvaged over the course of 10 years by the the Spanish, led by Gaspar de Vargas and located in the same area.

Nuestra Senora del Rosario, also salvaged by Gaspar de Vargas and believed to be at Loggerhead Reef.

Nuestra Senora de Los Reyes, thought to be in the area of Dry Tortugas National Park.

Nuestra Senora del Consolacion, believed to have sunk in the same vicinity as the Atocha and Santa Margarita.

Nuestra Senora de La Merced, supposedly located off the Dry Tortugas in about 1500-feet of water back in 1990. I don't know what happened with that.

The other two I don't know the name of.

 

[saltydog1733]

The deep water wreck was worked by Seahawk Deep Ocean Technology in 1990/1991. Bob Marx was involved in that operation.

http://sunkentreasure.com/tortugas.html

The Atocha and the Santa Margarita shipwrecks were both located by Mel Fisher's group. The newest and one of the best books about those shipwrecks is Sweat of the Sun Tears of Moon by Captain Syd Jones. Available at Amazon.com

Here is more information about the Rosario shipwreck:

Investigations of the possible Nuestra Senora del Rosario and the Swivel Gun Nest Site.

In the summer of 1622, a fleet of Spanish galleons, including the famous Nuestra Senora de Atocha and other ships including La Santa Margarita and Nuestra Senora del Rosario, were loaded with the wealth of the New World at Cartagena, Portobello, and Havan a. Their cargoes included treasures such as copper, silver, gold, tobacco, and indigo, along with private goods smuggled by passengers to avoid government taxes. Due to delays, the fleet or flota didn't set until the 4th of September, which, to the capt ain's chagrin, was the height of the hurricane season.

The very next day a massive hurricane swept through the Straits of Florida and devastated the hapless fleet. Eight vessels were driven aimlessly by the storm until they wrecked on the reefs of the Florida Keys. The ill-fated flota had been scattered fro m the Dry Tortugas to the Marquesas Keys, and the three treasure-bearing galleons mentioned above were lost along with five smaller vessels.

Three of these eight ships wrecked in or near the Dry Tortugas. One was a Portuguese 117 ton nao and slave ship Nuestra Senora de Los Reyes, lost somewhere near East Key. Rosario grounded on "the last key of the Tortugas" near Loggerhead Reef. Another ship lost was a small patache (small support and reconnaissance ship) which wrecked "on an island to the east of the Rosario." Additionally, another patache was lost in the Tortugas a few weeks later when a storm struck a small Spanish fleet salvaging th e sunken flota.

Three hundred and fifty years later, the National Park Service under George Fischer (now an FSU professor) led an expedition to the Fort Jefferson National Monument in the Dry Tortugas, an island cluster about 75 miles west of Key West. This April 1969 s urvey focused on what were determined to be high priority areas for shipwrecks, mainly around Loggerhead Key and other islands in the Dry Tortugas. The Park Service next conducted a magnetometer survey in 1971 over portions of Long Key Reef, Loggerhead R eef, and other selected Park areas. During this season, a shipwreck site was discovered with artifacts such as Spanish ladrillos (tile-like bricks), ship's fittings, ballast rocks, and other cultural material that suggested a large 17th century Spanish s hip. The archaeologists were fairly sure they had found the scattered remains of the galleon Nuestra Senora del Rosario.

In 1981 the shipwreck was investigated by a joint Florida State University and Southeast Archeological Center (National Park Service) team. The possible Rosario site, designated FOJE-UW-9, was re-located. During visual survey, a related site called FOJE -UW-17 was discovered. It was located less than 250 meters away from the main galleon scatter and also had numerous Spanish artifacts visible on the surface. The most prominent feature of this second site was a group of six wrought iron versos or swivel guns (small anti-personnel cannons mounted on a swivel yoke on the side of the ship). An intensive and controlled surface collection was conducted over both sites, recovering 30 artifacts. Typical items recovered included Middle Period Spanish Olive Ja r fragments and fire-brick ladrillos. In addition, one of the swivel-guns was raised.

In 1982 a more intensive three-week expedition was launched by Florida State University and the Southeast Archaeological Center. The project was designed to make a thorough assessment of the two sites, determine the relationship between the two, and to b etter define the nature, extent, and identities of the two sites. An expansive grid area of 170 by 140 meters was set up to delineate the wreck scatter of the possible Rosario. Then a smaller 100 by 50 meter was set up over the main area of artifacts.

Divers physically surveyed the entire 170 by 140 meter area and charted the distribution of artifacts, mainly ladrillo fire-bricks, "egg rock" ballast stone, concreted iron remains, and at least two visible iron anchors. Then 1 by 1 meter test units were excavated across the area of main cultural deposit. In the time allowed, 27 test units were excavated with a 3" dredge randomly in the 100 by 50 meter grid. Diagnostic artifacts were collected and transported back to Tallahassee, still immersed in salt water, for conservation and analysis. These collected and provenienced artifacts included wood remains, fasteners, ladrillos, glass fragments, ballast stones, a buckle, unidentified brass fragments, and whiteware and olive jar ceramic sherds.

In addition, two separate 225 meter transects were run between the Rosario wreck scatter and the Swivel Gun Nest. Teams of scuba divers surveyed the 10 meter wide transects, noting any artifacts visible on the surface and their locations. Artifacts note d along the survey area included bronze and iron fasteners, unknown iron concretions, small concentrations of ballast stone, a chain plate, Spanish olive jar sherds, and a burnt wooden spar.

Unfortunately, no conclusive evidence was found to identify the site with 100% certainty as Nuestra Senora del Rosario. The site is in the general area where the Rosario sunk, the artifacts observed and recovered suggest a 17th Spanish vessel, and the 20 0' by 400' scatter of artifacts suggest a large ship. The Rosario, at 600 tons, was the only large 17th century ship to wreck in the Dry Tortugas according to the known documents.

The Swivel Gun Nest site, UW-17, remains a mystery as well. Due to a 100 meter stretch with no visible artifacts between the two sites, it is believed that the Swivel Gun site may be a separate, smaller shipwreck. It therefore could represent one of the smaller flota ships that sank, or even the patache that was sent to salvage the Rosario less than a month after the hurricane.

Salty

 

[mad4wrecks]

Who knows, maybe some of the 1622 ships ended up on the Treasure Coast?

Tom

 

[Lanny in AB]

Great read--lot's of info. Thanks!

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Bum Luck]

Who knows, maybe some of the 1622 ships ended up on the Treasure Coast?

Tom

I'm thinking that some of the flotsam ended up following the Gulf Stream and may have come ashore there. There's some "harumph" in Salinas' report.

He didn't report any finds, but interesting thought nonetheless.

 

[old man]

I know this is an old thread. I have a question. If one of the below 1622 wrecks is found and it is a Merchant Ship. Does Spain have a RIGHTFUL Claim to it ?
I know a guy named wreck Tom that claimed to have found one of these wrecks in Deep Water, south of the quicksands. He had some nice pictures of some nice artifacts. I also read where Sea Hawk claimed they didn't find the Merced. Just curious as I do know where there is a target on side scan in Deep Water, pretty far South of Hawk Channel.

Despite these impressive discoveries, three ships of the 1622 treasure fleet remain undiscovered. However there are many unidentified shipwrecks off the coast of Florida, so it is possible that the wrecks sites have already been discovered and further excavation is needed.The undiscovered shipwrecks are as follows;
Nuestra Senora del Rosario: this was a merchant ship. Its location is unknown.
Nuestra Senora del Consolacion: records suggest that the Consolacion capsized close to where the Atoche sank in the Marquesas Keys, although the wreck has never been discovered.
Nuestra Senora de la Merced: In 1990 Seahawk Deep Ocean Technology was exploring off the Tortugas for the Spanish treasure galleon La Merced. After two years of searching near the Dry Tortugas the company publically announced it had discovered the wreck of the Merced in 1,500 feet of water. Artifacts recovered from the wreck site included jewelry, SILVER COINS , gold bars and pearls. However, after the S.E.C began to investigate Seahawk for claims of insider trading, the company claimed that the Spanish galleon they had found was not the Merced. And because Seahawk has allowed very few independent experts to view the artifacts we cannot say for sure whether the “Tortugas Wreck”, as it is known, is the galleon Nuestra Senora da la Merced.